Thread: Synchromysticism

He was probably joking yeah, but it is a reason to ban. It's a rule here.

Originally Posted by DeathCell

Duality is just one truth on the spiritual path IMO, an opener.


And to the people who say surrendering the ego is impossible... That's what yogis attain for on a daily basis, and many do lose their ego.. Whether you want to believe it or not.

My issue is; what is exactly do you mean by 'surrendering the ego', 'ego death', etc.? Do you think yogis would agree with your description of what they are doing? For that matter, how do you define the ego in the first place?

Are you refering to the Freudian ego, ones sense of self, or just the knowledge of a being that can express a feeling of 'I'? Does one lose the knowledge of what an individual is when one surrenders one's own individuality? Is nirvana the ultimate "ignorance is bliss"?

'Surrendering the ego' is not a very good way to describe my perception of what is being reached for when one seeks enlightenment, although maybe you'll say thats because I am not enlightened; and maybe thats true. To me though, To recognize that an individual is a place and not a discrete thing is not the same as giving up the perception of the self as that place, which is how I translate "surrendering the ego."

How this relates to the synchromysticism business; there is a definite and practical line between recognizing connections, and recognizing the connections that do tangible work (i.e. the ones that have meaning, or create a patterned and repeatable outcome) especially in the context of a system in which everything is connected to everything else in some way. Many of these connections are inert and bare no more signifigance than calling the correct side on a flipped coin.

this is the ego, this is the buddha.

Originally Posted by ClouD

this is the ego, this is the buddha.

You really do need to learn how to express yourself better. What are you refering to with the word 'this'? Do you think you are expressing Brahman or Atman, or neither? Do you even know what it is you are trying to express?

Alright, let's form an angry mob and head towards the meta-forum.

Originally Posted by Xaqaria

You really do need to learn how to express yourself better. What are you refering to with the word 'this'? Do you think you are expressing Brahman or Atman, or neither? Do you even know what it is you are trying to express?

This. Everything, nothing, whatsoever. This.

All inclusively, this is the ego; this is the Buddha.

Originally Posted by Xaqaria

My issue is; what is exactly do you mean by 'surrendering the ego', 'ego death', etc.? Do you think yogis would agree with your description of what they are doing? For that matter, how do you define the ego in the first place?

Are you refering to the Freudian ego, ones sense of self, or just the knowledge of a being that can express a feeling of 'I'? Does one lose the knowledge of what an individual is when one surrenders one's own individuality? Is nirvana the ultimate "ignorance is bliss"?

'Surrendering the ego' is not a very good way to describe my perception of what is being reached for when one seeks enlightenment, although maybe you'll say thats because I am not enlightened; and maybe thats true. To me though, To recognize that an individual is a place and not a discrete thing is not the same as giving up the perception of the self as that place, which is how I translate "surrendering the ego."

How this relates to the synchromysticism business; there is a definite and practical line between recognizing connections, and recognizing the connections that do tangible work (i.e. the ones that have meaning, or create a patterned and repeatable outcome) especially in the context of a system in which everything is connected to everything else in some way. Many of these connections are inert and bare no more signifigance than calling the correct side on a flipped coin.

I think the loss of ego means a loss of feeling you are the most important thing in the world and realize that you are just one person in the whole.

Originally Posted by Xaqaria

My issue is; what is exactly do you mean by 'surrendering the ego', 'ego death', etc.? Do you think yogis would agree with your description of what they are doing? For that matter, how do you define the ego in the first place?

Yeah, the yogis, forms of yoga, all related somewhat. Surrendering the ego means to be willing to give up the pay-offs and attachments to your ego (lower self) in order to reveal what you really are (higher Self). Popular analogies include that the higher Self is the Sun, shining effortlessly, whereas the ego and its obstructions to spiritual truth are much like the clouds that block the light of your awareness. Remove/surrender the clouds, and the Sun is revealed.

At Post #24 on the following page (link), I apparently started a discussion with O'nus about the ego, if it helps:

http://www.dreamviews.com/community/...t=65223&page=2

A nice ego link; great website: http://theendofseeking.net/EG%20-%20The%27me%27.html

Originally Posted by Xaqaria

Are you refering to the Freudian ego, ones sense of self, or just the knowledge of a being that can express a feeling of 'I'?

The "I" of the real Self is clouded by the ego, which presumes "I am that", e.g. "I am the body" - the presumed "causal agent" of ones life story.

Originally Posted by Xaqaria

Does one lose the knowledge of what an individual is when one surrenders one's own individuality? Is nirvana the ultimate "ignorance is bliss"?

The knowledge of the individual self supposedly becomes replaced with real knowledge of the Self upon returning home "once enlightened", and merges with the universal source; as a drop back into the ocean. It is said that the individuality is merged into the Real identity, which is Omnipresent. Over "periods" of infinite bliss, the awareness might suddenly notice there is a body, but it is not identified as the individual self (become peripheral). This is because the real Self is essentially in complete and total unity and eternal Oneness with everything.

I think the "ignorance is bliss" as Nirvana is far out of context. For one thing, bliss is briefly the eternal freedom from all suffering. Suffering is the result of ignorance - ignorance of ones true existence; ones true Self. Bliss is actually what arises from radiant awareness, never from ignorance. (If you compare the state of Nirvana to that phrase, that "ignorant bliss" is effectively nothing).

Originally Posted by Xaqaria

To recognize that an individual is a place and not a discrete thing is not the same as giving up the perception of the self as that place, which is how I translate "surrendering the ego."

What do you mean by this?

Originally Posted by ClouD

This. Everything, nothing, whatsoever. This.

All inclusively, this is the ego; this is the Buddha.

ClouD, come on...

Originally Posted by DeathCell

I think the loss of ego means a loss of feeling you are the most important thing in the world and realize that you are just one person in the whole.

You can still be narcissistic while knowing that you one part of the world. Narcissism is the low animal realm of the ego - where its demands are strongly dominant. There usually is consistent pain caused by anger, arrogance, pride, apathy, negativity and violence, etc. There is no integrity with this awareness. People with this consciousness who follow religion usually follow it for wrong reasons, I.e. "justify" killing, believing in a "divine supporter" of ones own self-importance; promote "free speech" in the form of explicit and offensive behavior. It is a major distortion; there is incredible irony in their religious beliefs as they are expressed from the person as the exact opposite of their founding truths.

With increasing conscious awareness, one is more self-controlled. Emotions in the brain are physiologically not the primary motivator for behavior, I.e. rationality comes in first. Rationality and logical conceptualization is a very good sign of awareness. Intellectuals are more spiritually aware than they think. Yet, the intellect is a great barrier to higher awareness...

Everything is of the mind.

Originally Posted by really

What do you mean by this?

The whole 'universal mind' theory. Everything is one and all that. If we are really just all the same thing, our individuality still boils down to a place marker in that thing.

I've experienced ego-death, though it was through use of psychadelics. And it scared me when I came to, I think due to the fact that I am still so attached to my ego-in-waking.
Ego-death is when you can look at yourself (and indeed your ego), look at the world without being blinded, side-tracked, confused by emotions.
Psychadelics were a tool for me, that showed me many things about the world and myself.

But they are just a tool, everyone should remember that.

I stole the keys to the skies, but they weren't rightfully mine.

Originally Posted by SmoothGroove

I've experienced ego-death, though it was through use of psychadelics. And it scared me when I came to, I think due to the fact that I am still so attached to my ego-in-waking.
Ego-death is when you can look at yourself (and indeed your ego), look at the world without being blinded, side-tracked, confused by emotions.
Psychadelics were a tool for me, that showed me many things about the world and myself.

But they are just a tool, everyone should remember that.

I stole the keys to the skies, but they weren't rightfully mine.

laugh out loud

Originally Posted by ClouD

laugh out loud

Glad I could make you laugh

Originally Posted by SmoothGroove

Glad I could make you laugh

how decisive

I think I'll just accept who I am (my flaws and better traits) and die, eventually. No ego death for me, thank you.
I don't get why those "wise men" want to lose their sense of self so badly. You'll lose it when you're dead, isn't that good enough? I think those Yogis have no respect for life.

Guess what cyclic... that was your 2012th post.

Haha, grats

Originally Posted by Timothy Paradox

I think I'll just accept who I am (my flaws and better traits) and die, eventually. No ego death for me, thank you.
I don't get why those "wise men" want to lose their sense of self so badly. You'll lose it when you're dead, isn't that good enough? I think those Yogis have no respect for life.

What do you mean? What does it mean to have respect for life?

Nevermind. You just want to tell me to believe in what you believe so further discussion is pointless.

Actually I "want" to remind you of how relative subjectivity is. Respect is a pretty clear concept, but the way you worded your statement shows how you favour your world view over another. So do I and everybody else, but where is the logic in it? For example you talked about self respect of the people who "want" ego death, in regards of how low it must be or why somebody would like to become an empty shell. Why would your philosophy of attachment to this world have more truthfulness than any other? Why is being a normal human respectful, but not when you want to experience the universe in another way. All I'm saying is that assuming a different standpoint is most practical when trying to understand somebody. You linked your view of life and attached the path of a yogi and the folks who want "ego death", which obviously don't add up. Just as I can't comprehend why somebody would want to go to heaven. But I understand it. Sorry for preaching... but don't worry, I don't even know how to believe, what I think I believe.

Originally Posted by Bonsay

Actually I "want" to remind you of how relative subjectivity is. Respect is a pretty clear concept, but the way you worded your statement shows how you favour your world view over another. So do I and everybody else, but where is the logic in it? For example you talked about self respect of the people who "want" ego death, in regards of how low it must be or why somebody would like to become an empty shell. Why would your philosophy of attachment to this world have more truthfulness than any other? Why is being a normal human respectful, but not when you want to experience the universe in another way. All I'm saying is that assuming a different standpoint is most practical when trying to understand somebody. You linked your view of life and attached the path of a yogi and the folks who want "ego death", which obviously don't add up. Just as I can't comprehend why somebody would want to go to heaven. But I understand it. Sorry for preaching... but don't worry, I don't even know how to believe, what I think I believe.

Subjectivity is not a belief system, nor is it the mind. Subjectivity essentially contextualizes all possible Reality and knowledge. This is what all beings share; subjectivity - awareness, consciousness.

The content of mind; the belief systems, are irrelevant. You cannot imagine anothers system, simply by paradigm. You can only gather the facts, factors and influences of another system and hopefully build your own picture, but even then it is subject to perception.

Originally Posted by Timothy Paradox

I think I'll just accept who I am (my flaws and better traits) and die, eventually. No ego death for me, thank you.
I don't get why those "wise men" want to lose their sense of self so badly. You'll lose it when you're dead, isn't that good enough? I think those Yogis have no respect for life.

The ego isn't who you are

What the ego is, is the culmination of everything you think we are. Tt's composed of ideas, beliefs, thoughts, emotions and memories.

The ego tells us "This is who you are". Knowing who we are makes us happy. Makes us feel safe. Problem is, the ego is lying.

The ego says "you are those beliefs, ideas and memories. If anything should threaten those beliefs, ideas and memories - then your individuality is threatened." But this isn't true. We are not an idea, we are not a belief, and we are not our memories.

This is why the ego is a problem.

For example

Lets look at the fundamentalist. The fundamentalist says "I am a fundamentalist. This is what I believe in. What I believe in defines me as an individual. So I know who I am.

I am a fundamentalist"

What happens if you shake a fundamentalists beliefs? They get very angry. Why do you think that is? You aren't just threatening their belief system, but their self identity.

If suddenly one day they wake up atheist, their entire mental world would fall apart. Suddenly they know nothing about the world anymore. And they would be completely unsure about their self. Even their own memories. "Did I always have absolute faith? Or was I lying to myself?" The change would be so dramatic, they might not be able to relate to other fundamentalists they used to know.

We all go through mini ego-deaths throughout our lives. It's necessary. It's important. It's part of growing up.

Those 'yogis' you are talking about it take the process of ego death much further. That's because they want it completely gone.

It's important to understand this doesn't mean its wrong to have beliefs, ideas, emotions, or memories.

Westerners always want the cookie cutter answers to philosophy and spiritual ideas. But it doesn't work. The understanding of ego death is in the subtlety.

What you need to understand is your ideas, your beliefs, your emotions, your memories, even your thoughts - none of those things are who you are. However, they serve a unique purpose of creating an experience. Experiencing isn't wrong. It's what life is! Experiencing!

Since all your beliefs, emotions, ideas are simply an experience, none of them are the absolute truth. Since they are not the absolute truth, they are the maya, or illusion.

Now many spiritual people are trying to escape the maya, to reach God, or the only true reality. This would 'appear' that these spiritual folk don't care about living life.

The path they are walking isn't easy. The problem becomes a matter of balance, as always. What they are balancing is experiencing life, while recognizing they are not any of those illusions. This process becomes the practice of non-attachment. Balancing is difficult. So many choose to live simple lives to make non-attachment easier. However, having abundance does not go against non-attachment.

Here is an example of how our emotions feed our ego. And how non-attachment detaches our self from our emotions.

We have the tendency to say "I am angry!". Why is saying "I am angry!" wrong?

When we say "I am angry!" we are creating in our heads that the only thing we can feel right now...is anger. Anger and only anger. Believing that we are in fact angry....makes us angrier! The ego feeds itself. And becomes a circular trap.

If we change the mental statement "I am experiencing anger." (the non-attachment statement)

Then we are recognizing that anger is an emotion, and its a temporary experience. And more importantly, it's not what we are. Realizing it's a temporary experience that is not who we are, we can let go of the anger easier. Our emotional self becomes empty. Nature abhors a vacuum. That now empty emotional self needs to be filled with a new emotion. Hopefully, peace of mind........but more than often its regret.

This is a tiny example of what happens when your ego dies. That vacuum is filled. The yogis, and other spiritual peeps are hoping their empty minds will be filled with the true reality. However, for a moment in time there will be a vacuum. The vacuum can be really frightening if you aren't ready!

The death of the ego doesn't mean you stop being an individual. It never was your individuality to begin with!

Your individuality can't accurately be expressed in words. The best we can describe it in the english language is, I AM. It is however expressed in that which you have chosen to experience. So your ego is an expression of your individuality. Just don't confuse the art for the painter, or even the paintbrush for the painter.

We all carry so many subtle lies about ourselves. So many subtle lies about the world. You can go your entire life time and never realize you had these false ideas. Everyone who practices the Law of Attraction will tell you, they discovered so many false ideas about themselves, they never knew they had!

Our egos are very very sneaky

Cyclic13, is that picture supposed to symbolize chaos? No order without chaos, no chaos with order...it has to balance out.

I know what your saying about dualism, it's everywhere..but the point is to observe both sides and not just observe from one side. Someone said something about observing the coin and not just making heads or tails of it..that was brilliant lol.

Which makes total sense, if the NWO were to take over the world, chaos would ensue...but their has to be order for it to balance out..it can never stay on one side for too long, hence what i think 2012 is all about. Maybe that's the cycles the mayans talked about?

The beginning of this thread is brilliant, Cyclic, i love the pictures and the videos. And i can see why some people on here can't appreciate it.

Hot and cold, good and bad, slow and fast, male and female. Observe duality from OUTSIDE of the duality framework. I'm just not so clear on WHY they need each other........

because they both exist as one? With them both working together, when one needs the other it creates change..everything needs to change....everything needs to be dynamic...steadily moving.....ergo fractal theory, the fractals/patterns always need to change. Life needs death, because there needs to be change, and vice versa.



Ego death. I've read about this a lot, specifically in trip reports from salvia. This is why I don't want to be spiritually enlightened YET. I feel like once I am, i will lose my interests and things that I like/dislike like anime, video games, sex, etc, cars, and be on a straight path down towards loving everyone unconditionally

I know my desires are all illusions, but i like them, and i want to continue to like them until my desire for them are satisfied

I feel what you are saying that the REAL ME is the conscious observer, aside from the likes and dislikes, I think this is what defines us though. Our experiences, memories, desires...without that, it's like we just walk around mindlessly and observe everything. Those experiences and memories are what makes us happy, sad, emotional or whatever. I mean after a certain period, we might get tired of them...but i just don't want to be spiritually enlightened and have all that stripped away from me.