Thread: ABC's John Miller Interviews Osama Bin Laden (1998)

Bin Laden is wrong about "the principle of reciprocity". In general, both sides of a war think they are doing the right thing, thus mutual retaliation equals mutual destruction.
And generalizing on people who happen to live inside some arbritrary geographic location (ie. America) is plain wrong.

Well honestly I don't blame the man for being angry, we helped his people get rid of the soviets, and the cia trained them and pretty much took off and said your on your own take care have a nice life. But, I do however think hes a lunatic for murdering civilians in the name of politicians, if anyone should be attacked its the men in charge, not us citizens, we just goto work and do what we're told.

Originally Posted by guerilla

Well honestly I don't blame the man for being angry, we helped his people get rid of the soviets, and the cia trained them and pretty much took off and said your on your own take care have a nice life.

That is a bad thing? My God, he should be thanking us every day for that. We didn't have to do a damn thing for them. Only a sociopath like Bin Laden would take such a huge favor and have nothing to say about it except that we did not do more. What an ungrateful piece of trash.

Originally Posted by guerilla

But, I do however think hes a lunatic for murdering civilians in the name of politicians, if anyone should be attacked its the men in charge, not us citizens, we just goto work and do what we're told.

He should have never attacked any of us. He should have started a communication campaign to get the American people to understand his points. That would have gotten their side heard in a country where Islam and Islamic causes are not well known. Instead, he made enemies of pretty much all of us and made Americans very anti-Islamic. Now pretty much every American strongly associates Islam with terrorism. Bin Laden was very stupid and evil to create such a situation. Approaching us with a smile on his face and logical points to talk about would have gotten him many times further with the U.S. He is a primitive minded douchebag.

This passage right here spells out the definition of lunatic level of prejudice:

We believe that the worst thieves in the world today and the worst terrorists are the Americans. Nothing could stop you except perhaps retaliation in kind. We do not have to differentiate between military or civilian. As far as we are concerned, they are all targets, and this is what the fatwah says ... . The fatwah is general (comprehensive) and it includes all those who participate in, or help the Jewish occupiers in killing Muslims.

That "all" includes every single American. If you are an American, he is talking about YOU. He considers YOU a target. Don't forget that.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

He should have never attacked any of us. He should have started a communication campaign to get the American people to understand his points. That would have gotten their side heard in a country where Islam and Islamic causes are not well known. Instead, he made enemies of pretty much all of us and made Americans very anti-Islamic. Now pretty much every American strongly associates Islam with terrorism. Bin Laden was very stupid and evil to create such a situation. Approaching us with a smile on his face and logical points to talk about would have gotten him many times further with the U.S. He is a primitive minded douchebag.

This passage right here spells out the definition of lunatic level of prejudice:

We believe that the worst thieves in the world today and the worst terrorists are the Americans. Nothing could stop you except perhaps retaliation in kind. We do not have to differentiate between military or civilian. As far as we are concerned, they are all targets, and this is what the fatwah says ... . The fatwah is general (comprehensive) and it includes all those who participate in, or help the Jewish occupiers in killing Muslims.

That "all" includes every single American. If you are an American, he is talking about YOU. He considers YOU a target. Don't forget that.

Here read alittle of Bin Ladens "letter to america" You are speaking in very broad terms. Osama tried to communicate. He went to the King of KSA and told him don't bring the americans here (to the holy land). Provide me with 100 000 men with good provisions and we will drive out the Iraqies from Kuwait. But no the King of KSA refused and let Bush senior bring in his soldiers. It explains it in more detail in Bin Ladens letter to america so i thought i would provide some excerts so that people who are reading will be able to understand in greater detail...

You have supported the Jews in their idea that Jerusalem is their eternal capital, and agreed to move your embassy there. With your help and under your protection, the Israelis are planning to destroy the Al-Aqsa mosque. Under the protection of your weapons, Sharon entered the Al-Aqsa mosque, to pollute it as a preparation to capture and destroy it.

(2) These tragedies and calamities are only a few examples of your oppression and aggression against us. It is commanded by our religion and intellect that the oppressed have a right to return the aggression. Do not await anything from us but Jihad, resistance and revenge. Is it in any way rational to expect that after America has attacked us for more than half a century, that we will then leave her to live in security and peace?!!

(3) You may then dispute that all the above does not justify aggression against civilians, for crimes they did not commit and offenses in which they did not partake:

(a) This argument contradicts your continuous repetition that America is the land of freedom, and its leaders in this world. Therefore, the American people are the ones who choose their government by way of their own free will; a choice which stems from their agreement to its policies. Thus the American people have chosen, consented to, and affirmed their support for the Israeli oppression of the Palestinians, the occupation and usurpation of their land, and its continuous killing, torture, punishment and expulsion of the Palestinians. The American people have the ability and choice to refuse the policies of their Government and even to change it if they want.

(b) The American people are the ones who pay the taxes which fund the planes that bomb us in Afghanistan, the tanks that strike and destroy our homes in Palestine, the armies which occupy our lands in the Arabian Gulf, and the fleets which ensure the blockade of Iraq. These tax dollars are given to Israel for it to continue to attack us and penetrate our lands. So the American people are the ones who fund the attacks against us, and they are the ones who oversee the expenditure of these monies in the way they wish, through their elected candidates.

(c) Also the American army is part of the American people. It is this very same people who are shamelessly helping the Jews fight against us.

(d) The American people are the ones who employ both their men and their women in the American Forces which attack us.

(e) This is why the American people cannot be not innocent of all the crimes committed by the Americans and Jews against us.

(f) Allah, the Almighty, legislated the permission and the option to take revenge. Thus, if we are attacked, then we have the right to attack back. Whoever has destroyed our villages and towns, then we have the right to destroy their villages and towns. Whoever has stolen our wealth, then we have the right to destroy their economy. And whoever has killed our civilians, then we have the right to kill theirs.

The American Government and press still refuses to answer the question:

Why did they attack us in New York and Washington?

If Sharon is a man of peace in the eyes of Bush, then we are also men of peace!!! America does not understand the language of manners and principles, so we are addressing it using the language it understands.


That which you are singled out for in the history of mankind, is that you have used your force to destroy mankind more than any other nation in history; not to defend principles and values, but to hasten to secure your interests and profits. You who dropped a nuclear bomb on Japan, even though Japan was ready to negotiate an end to the war. How many acts of oppression, tyranny and injustice have you carried out, O callers to freedom?

(xii) Let us not forget one of your major characteristics: your duality in both manners and values; your hypocrisy in manners and principles. All*manners, principles and values have two scales: one for you and one for the others.

(a)The freedom and democracy that you call to is for yourselves and for white race only; as for the rest of the world, you impose upon them your monstrous, destructive policies and Governments, which you call the 'American friends'. Yet you prevent them from establishing democracies. When the Islamic party in Algeria wanted to practice democracy and they won the election, you unleashed your agents in the Algerian army onto them, and to attack them with tanks and guns, to imprison them and torture them - a new lesson from the 'American book of democracy'!!!

(b)Your policy on prohibiting and forcibly removing weapons of mass destruction to ensure world peace: it only applies to those countries which you do not permit to possess such weapons. As for the countries you consent to, such as Israel, then they are allowed to keep and use such weapons to defend their security. Anyone else who you suspect might be manufacturing or keeping these kinds of weapons, you call them criminals and you take military action against them.

(c)You are the last ones to respect the resolutions and policies of International Law, yet you claim to want to selectively punish anyone else who does the same. Israel has for more than 50 years been pushing UN resolutions and rules against the wall with the full support of America.

(d)As for the war criminals which you censure and form criminal courts for - you shamelessly ask that your own are granted immunity!! However, history will not forget the war crimes that you committed against the Muslims and the rest of the world; those you have killed in Japan, Afghanistan, Somalia, Lebanon and Iraq will remain a shame that you will never be able to escape. It will suffice to remind you of your latest war crimes in Afghanistan, in which densely populated innocent civilian villages were destroyed, bombs were dropped on mosques causing the roof of the mosque to come crashing down on the heads of the Muslims praying inside. You are the ones who broke the agreement with the Mujahideen when they left Qunduz, bombing them in Jangi fort, and killing more than 1,000 of your prisoners through suffocation and thirst. Allah alone knows how many people have died by torture at the hands of you and your agents. Your planes remain in the Afghan skies, looking for anyone remotely suspicious.

Yes, I have read the whole thing. You left out the part where he goes into how we are evil because we allow alcohol, stock trade, and a government that is not Koran oriented and how he will not call off his war with us until we change all of it. What about it? Do you support his generalized prejudice against Americans and call for Muslims to kill anybody who is American or something? I challenge you to say something against it.

Do children pay taxes? Do all American tax payers agree with what the government does with tax money? What are you trying to say?

When I say "communicate", I am talking about the mass media, the internet, public forums, etc. I was not limiting the principle to a few powerful Americans. Usama Bin Laden has been the worst advertisement for Islam to the United States there has ever been. What a dumb ass.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

Yes, I have read the whole thing. You left out the part where he goes into how we are evil because we allow alcohol, stock trade, and a government that is not Koran oriented and how he will not call off his war with us until we change all of it. What about it? Do you support his generalized prejudice against Americans and call for Muslims to kill anybody who is American or something? I challenge you to say something against it.

Do children pay taxes? Do all American tax payers agree with what the government does with tax money? What are you trying to say?

When I say "communicate", I am talking about the mass media, the internet, public forums, etc. I was not limiting the principle to a few powerful Americans. Usama Bin Laden has been the worst advertisement for Islam to the United States there has ever been. What a dumb ass.

Those pety things about alchohol/gambling and what not pale compared to the grievances over the last 50 years they have and they are after USA for those grivences i gave above, not for you guys drinking alchohol.

As for the Media i beleive Osama Bin Laden issued Fatwas in 1996 and 1998 which showed his intentions. Thats how he reached out i guess plus he used his former high status iin Saudi society to try and get the Saudi King to not bring USA troops to KSA and if that didn't work given his high status at the time then obviously nothing else would.

I don't support Al Qaeda or their views about civilans being legitimate targets...I stated that a few times before, im just giving showing Al Qaeda's views in greater detail so that people can get it from the horses mouth so to speak....

Originally Posted by dragonoverlord

Those pety things about alchohol/gambling and what not pale compared to the grievances over the last 50 years they have and they are after USA for those grivences i gave above, not for you guys drinking alchohol.

The letter mentions those things and others and says that if we do not meet ALL of the demands of the letter, the fuckface will not call off his war. It says it. Read it again.

If you fail to respond to all these conditions, then prepare for fight with the Islamic Nation.

We have debated the "grievances" you talk about. Our presence in the Middle East has been justified, and Bin Laden is an evil religious fanatic for wanting to kill "all" Americans over it and the other bizarre bullshit he talks about. Israel is a democracy, and protecting democracy was a very important objective during the Cold War. It is the moral thing to do any way, and it is necessary to do it now. Our aid to and trade with Iraq was never an obligation, so we did not "starve" Iraqis. At some point, you need to admit how religiously nutty that wack job Bin Laden is. Do you admit it?

I asked you a question in another thread, and you did not answer it. Why are you so obsessively supportive of Islam? You are a French Canadian who claims to not be a Muslim, so what exactly is your deal with all of this? You are not just obsessed with Islamic causes. You are obsessed with acting as some kind of internet attorney for Islamofascists. I really don't get this. You put so much energy into taking up for the most insanely evil people in the world. Why?

Originally Posted by dragonoverlord

As for the Media i beleive Osama Bin Laden issued Fatwas in 1996 and 1998 which showed his intentions. Thats how he reached out i guess plus he used his former high status iin Saudi society to try and get the Saudi King to not bring USA troops to KSA and if that didn't work given his high status at the time then obviously nothing else would.

I don't support Al Qaeda or their views about civilans being legitimate targets...I stated that a few times before, im just giving showing Al Qaeda's views in greater detail so that people can get it from the horses mouth so to speak....

Then you should have posted the entire letter.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2002/nov/24/theobserver

Since you claim you do not support Bin Laden's sick propaganda, let's see you speak out against it as passionately as you have spoken against the United States. I would like to see the full scope of how much you really are against Al Qaeda. Go off against them, if you really detest what they do. Show us the full extent of your passion.

Don't underestimate Bin Laden.

Originally Posted by Dreamworld

Don't underestimate Bin Laden.

What exactly are you saying?

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

What exactly are you saying?

He is a genius, who simply uses his smarts for his own cause. Al-Queda has been alive longer than the Nazi regime. Their new form of secretcy and terrorism makes them known all over the world. He is certainly not primitive minded.

Originally Posted by Dreamworld

He is a genius, who simply uses his smarts for his own cause. Al-Queda has been alive longer than the Nazi regime. Their new form of secretcy and terrorism makes them known all over the world. He is certainly not primitive minded.

What countries has Bin Laden ever taken over? How long has the world's oldest street gang been around?

A person who buys into what Bin Laden believes and wants to kill people for not believing his religion and for having the same nationality as "infidels" in the "holy land" is primitive minded. Living in caves is just icing on the cake.