Skeptics, watch this and let me know what you think

[Rainman]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAAB0dbc3Es Please keep the flames and hostility to a minimum. Actually, just don't do it at all. This request does not apply to Mark. XD You guys are always asking for evidence of the paranormal...maybe this comes close. Let me know what you guys think. For once, I would actually like to hear a skeptic's opinion of it. Just try to be...civil. By the way, watch the whole thing. I know it's kind of long, but you won't get the point if you don't watch the whole thing up to the last 35 seconds or so. It validates its existence to an extent. -Rainman

[Mes Tarrant]

Hehe how is your location Illinois/Australia?? Anyway I watched the first minute or so (too tired to watch the whole thing) and this isn't something I consider paranormal. Sooo... perhaps I shouldn't reply to this thread.

[Rainman]

I used to live in Australia. Then for a while I was living back and fourth between there and Chicago. Now I'm just in Chicago, so I suppose I should change that. And damnit, I'm pretty drunk drunk. Could an admin/mod please move this to the extended discussion thread? I completely didn't mean to post it here. You don't consider it paranormal, but most skeptics would. But I'm glad you don't. THANKS MOD/ADMIN (probably O) for moving this.

[♥Mark]

I often wonder what the words "paranormal" and "supernatural" are supposed to mean. Paranormal meaning outside of the normal? Because we have a word for that already. Strange. What about supernatural? Something outside of nature? How can something be outside of nature? If it's a facet of our reality, it's a part of nature. Really, they're just buzz words used as euphemisms for "magical". PS I didn't watch the video

[Oneironaut Zero]

Excellent vid. Very interesting.

[Universal Mind]

I think that either that guy is a lone magician like David Copperfield or Doug Henning or the other people involved in that film worked together with him as a trick photography magician team, which I think is the case with Chriss Angel. I have also seen Luke Skywalker use the force to blow up the Death Star on video, so that video is not enough to convince me. That guy could have won a million dollars by demonstrating his abilities under strict lab conditions, and that money has not been won to this day, which speaks libraries of volumes. My skepticism was raised even more at the end when the guy all of a sudden very conveniently claimed that he was forbidden to repeat the stuff for others, which takes away all possibilities of public challenges. If it was a huge taboo for him to ever show his abilities to the public, wouldn't he have known that before the filming started? Why did he do it any way and then suddenly say he can't show his abilities any more? He very conveniently made a video and closed the door on challenges to the video. It smells like a documentary scam to me.

[Serkat]

This doesn't look paranormal to me. It looks like a combination of mental illusionism and magic tricks. I agree with Universal Mind on this one. If you see Criss Angel floating between rooftops or walking on water, nobody grounded in reality actually believes that it's paranormal. It's just fun to watch. Look for magic tricks on youtube by all kinds of magicians. Look for mental magic by Derren Brown. If you don't know how it works, it's impressive. But if you're skeptic or if you have some knowledge in the field of magic, you wouldn't come to think that any of that is paranormal/unexplainable. For example: Mind Punch And now you show me exactly the same, except that the performer is an old Asian and names his magical power CHI instead of PSI. It's just a show effect. You need to do better than that to impress... Next thing I expected to see in that video was him sawing a virgin in half... I mean... so he can defy the laws of physics, but it just so comes that his super secret sect doesn't allow him to do it under scientific conditions. What a coincidence. It's just a bunch of neat tricks. Nice to see, but no scientific relevance... If you don't know how this works, it doesn't mean that it's paranormal: http://youtube.com/watch?v=hm5ifer9zRw It's still fun to see. As for the meditation, yes, I believe him and I believe that not all of that was staged. You can develop very intense psychological powers by meditating. That doesn't mean it's paranormal though. Derren Brown practices meditation and hypnosis... that doesn't mean he uses CHI. He just knows how psychological manipulation works.

[Neruo]

How paranormal. Not. Just because the guy has some tendency to give off static electricity, doesn't mean he has paranormal powers. Gosh, even I can give off static electricity if I wanted, I just need to wear fluffy shoes and shuffle over a fluffy tapestry. This guy just has some insane human tendency to give off electricity. I saw this Chinese dude that actually attacked metal: he could let an iron (the clothes-ironing kind) just 'stick' to his tummy. So, basically, some dude found some way to create static electricity in his body. There are also people that, through meditation, can survive insane cold without dropping a single degree in body heat. Really awesome and special, but all completely physically explainable. So, I kind of laughed when they 'measured' it wasn't electricity, but then the guy lighted an LED. If something powers an LED, it would show up on a volt-meter, that's just a fact. For the LED to light, electrons have to move through it. Moving electrons = electricity, basically. All I see is another Chinese dude that has mastered his body and his mind in an extraordinary way. Nothing supernatural. (you even see western martial-artists pushing chop-sticks through wood.)

[Rainman]

Oh. Well I guess that's good I suppose. I guess I figured people would consider this paranormal. Which of course leads to the question, how can you explain someone creating and controlling the flow of an electrical current with just their body? And if he really did do it, then it would be possible to set something on fire because of the heat. Look for mental magic by Derren Brown Derren Brown is not a magician of any kind, nor is anything he does "magic". Nor does he claim to be. In fact, I'm pretty sure he explains everything he does in the beginning of every episode.

[Oneironaut Zero]

Oh. Well I guess that's good I suppose. I guess I figured people would consider this paranormal. Which of course leads to the question, how can you explain someone creating and controlling the flow of an electrical current with just their body? And if he really did do it, then it would be possible to set something on fire because of the heat. The thing is: "skeptics" (emphasis on the quotations) will never find the possibility in someone actually doing something 'paranormal', unless it's tested a million times or more (and then, many of them will still default on the assumption that there is "still some unknown, physical explanation that they just haven't found yet). There is absolutely nothing you can show them, in any one (or two or seven or fourty-five) clips that will convince them that there is even a chance that anything shown in a video is authentic, because it's possible to explain away anything on film as a trick, and they will always take that route because, in a situation where it's impossible to prove something either way (like watching a video) many figure that it's better to assume on the side of the "scientifically accepted" position, such as the guy in the youtube comment that goes so far as to tell (assume) exactly which chemicals the guy used to make the fire. While no one with half a brain can dismiss the explanations (read as: assumptions) of how the tricks were done, I find it a fallacy - and not the least bit scientific - to immediately conclude that something is bogus without having nothing more than a video to go on (just as much as I find it a fallacy to believe that such a thing is authentic, without having nothing more than a video to go on).

[Oneironaught]

Combo magic/lies. But the mind reading stuff, and anything dealing with that he does is authentic. Uhmm, no. There have been many magicians that have made their living in the field of "mentalism". You know the difference between a magician/mentalist and some one with "magical powers"? I'll tell you: The magician is honest about the fact that he/she is doing illusions/tricks and the one with "real" powers is lying to you. Asking to think of a number, and he gets it on the first try. There are literally scores of magic books dealing with ways to accomplish that very same type of trick. There's nothing at all magical about it, other than it has the power to fool people. Clever: yes. Supernatural: no. Or like when he has someone put a very sharp knife sticking up under one of 5 cups and he slams his hand on all of them but the one with the knife under it. Again, there are a number of ways to accomplish that very same trick. There's nothing magical about it except for its ability to deceive the spectator. People believe he's a psychic, when really he's just using psychological tactics. Exactly, and because he doesn't present himself as a "magician". The way some one presents themselves goes a long way to fooling the gullible if that is indeed their intention. Ever hear of "psychic healers"? How about "mediums", "faith healers", "psychic surgeons", "voodoo witch doctors"? The list goes on ad nauseum. Yet, they are all forms of magic tricks and mind games under the guise of being authentic. Oh. Well I guess that's good I suppose. I guess I figured people would consider this paranormal. Yeah, have you ever read the threads at DV? Which of course leads to the question, how can you explain someone creating and controlling the flow of an electrical current with just their body? There's a fallacy here of people trying to attribute magical forces to things that have been accomplished by countless magicians. Don't assume that - just because he didn't expose the gimmick - that you see all there is to see in the video. And if he really did do it, then it would be possible to set something on fire because of the heat. Oh, and have I mentioned the fact that there is also volumes of books dedicated solely to fire magic? And by "magic", I mean illusions, tricks, magicians' secrets. Derren Brown is not a magician of any kind, nor is anything he does "magic". Nor does he claim to be. In fact, I'm pretty sure he explains everything he does in the beginning of every episode. Right, try again: Derren Brown's combination of psychological illusion, perceptual manipulation and persuasive technique has pioneered a new form of magical entertainment... The chopstick-thru-table illusion is not a new one. There's a good reason why the trick is only done from the back side: so that the spectator cannot see the simple method used. Try this, drill a Formica surface from the back side. Now make sure to only drill up to the underside of the Formica. Are you with me? Good. Now, stick a chopstick in that hole and give it a good whack from the end. Guess what happens? The Formica breaks out!!! Oh-my-fuckin'-God!!! That's simply fucking amazing as all fuckin' get out!!! Or, it would be if you didn't know the secret and that set-up was required. It's far from a spontaneous, do-anywhere trick. Remember, a good magician never reveals his secrets. And also remember that magicians - and magical secrets that are traded and sold - can be extremely cunning and deceptive. It's what they do; they spend lifetimes thinking up ways to deceive. Believe me, I was a magician and I was close friends with many people who would blow your fucking mind. And, if they were as unscrupulous as some of the people out there - who do the same things but try to make people think they have some sort of supernatural powers - then they would easily convince people that they, too, have supernatural powers. And in fact (just to make a point) I, myself have done magic tricks for idiots before who have been convinced (at least temporarily) that I had powers. Not because I said I did but, because they were dumb enough to draw nonsensical conclusions based on nothing more than the fact that they were fooled by what they saw. And when that happened (at least twice that I can remember) I was in no way trying to make anyone think I had magical powers. Nor was I lying or misrepresenting myself. And I only WISH I could say I'm joking about that. So, trust me, it's not as hard to fool people as you might want to believe. Nope, not at all. This concludes today's lesson in reason.

[Universal Mind]

Check this out... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9S6tJpUxvOU