Thread: Voting McCain?

Originally Posted by Dreamworld

First off Obama is winning the election, and has more voters than McCain.

I don't think everybody is being honest in the current Reuters poll. A lot of people out there get something out of commitment to liberal ideals and viewing themselves as liberals but will not vote for Obama (like I said earlier) when it comes down to it. Just watch.

Originally Posted by Dreamworld

Second, McCains economic, and foreign policy SUCK. McCain is an imitation of Bush, and is a neo-con. He is old, and why is it better to be in a prison camp for 5 years? What about the people who didn't get their asses in a prison?

I didn't say anything about the prison camp. However, I will now say that he stayed an extra five years willingly because he did not want to leave his friends behind and not be able to help them get through the terrible period. That shows a great deal of conscience and character, which both Clinton and Obama seriously lack.

I also said I think the Republicans have more up their sleeves on Obama.

Originally Posted by Dreamworld

Remember: Recap in November.

Don't forget.

Originally Posted by Oneironaut

I would just like to state that Reverend Wright is not "anti-America." He is "anti-current-American-Administration-who-are-controlling-her(America's)-policies."

He addressed a lot more than recent policies. He dug up the Japan bombings and other things that are from far back and then used those as the reasons for 9/11, saying, "America's chickens are coming home to roost," a quote of Malcolm X's point that Kennedy got shot for the same reason. It is a point that suggests not the logical and direct consequences of policy, but of some superstitious weirdness that is a lot like Kharma. He did not condemn the 9/11 terrorists. He said they did what they did because of some crazy thing the U.S. government did to the spiritual superstition realm or something. He was basically saying the U.S. is an evil country and got what it asked for by doing very unrelated things.

Originally Posted by Oneironaut

IHe used the phrase "God Damn America" because it was a catchy contrast to "God Bless America," illustrating the point that killing innocent people (as the American Administration is doing, in this war) is an damnable offense, under religious doctrine.

Like I said, he brought up things that the U.S. government did long ago, from long before you and I were even born. "God damn America" is catchy because it is in contrast to "God bless America", but it does mean that America is evil and deserves bad things and can go screw itself.

Originally Posted by Oneironaut

Sure he's extremist, in his opinions, but part of Obama's "problem" with him is that people are viewing him as something he's not proven to be.

I want a president who would never dream of going to a church that preaches such hateful and crazy stuff against the country. If Obama were a rock star or something, I might not think much of it, but he is running for president of the United States, of all things. I want somebody who condemns hatred for the country and who wants to do good things for the country, not somebody who gives even the slightest bit of credence to the idea that we are an evil nation that deserves bad things. It is out of the question. I am far from alone on that.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

He addressed a lot more than recent policies. He dug up the Japan bombings and other things that are from far back and then used those as the reasons for 9/11, saying, "America's chickens are coming home to roost," a quote of Malcolm X's point that Kennedy got shot for the same reason. It is a point that suggests not the logical and direct consequences of policy, but of some superstitious weirdness that is a lot like Kharma. He did not condemn the 9/11 terrorists. He said they did what they did because of some crazy thing the U.S. government did to the spiritual superstition realm or something. He was basically saying the U.S. is an evil country and got what it asked for by doing very unrelated things.

i think the point he was trying to make was that americas been fucking with alot of people and what goes around comes around or kharma as you put it.

UM. Heard about McCain's Nazi-like pastor?

His pastor said that the Holocaust is justified because it cleaned the world of jews. Also that it was by God's will. Its all over the news.

http://edition.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS...gee/index.html

Originally Posted by dragonoverlord

i think the point he was trying to make was that americas been fucking with alot of people and what goes around comes around or kharma as you put it.

Yeah, he thinks like you. Just like you think two year olds in Israel have horror and death coming to them, Wright thinks the 9/11 victims had it coming to them. Americans generally consider the 9/11 victims innocent. Kharma is supposed to exist on an individual basis, but this kharma like thing that you and Wright believe in involves larger scale group guilt based on individual actions. I majorly disagree with both of you from a factual and a moral standpoint.

Originally Posted by Dreamworld

UM. Heard about McCain's Nazi-like pastor?

His pastor said that the Holocaust is justified because it cleaned the world of jews. Also that it was by God's will. Its all over the news.

As far as I know, that was not McCain's pastor. He was some guy who endorsed McCain. I think McCain reffered to him one time as "a" (not "my") "spiritual advisor". Did McCain go to his church for twenty years? Did he have first hand knowledge of the pastor's extremist ideology being preached in church? Was he very close friends with him? If that were the case, I am pretty sure MSNBC would have been running the story 24/7. Please clear this up for us.

The other problem with America is that people such as Universal Mind are much more motivated to vote by fear than reasoning or thinking about the actual issues that the candidates base their platforms on.

One has only to look at the associations that certain Presidents have had with extreme right wing evangelists who have said VERY SIMILAR things to what Jeremiah Wright said to know that this fear of the Wright-Obama association is hypocritical at best and just ignorant at worst.

I don't agree at all with Jeremiah Wright, by the way, or any other evangelical who claims that disasters and tragedies are God's way of punishing America.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

Yeah, he thinks like you. Just like you think two year olds in Israel have horror and death coming to them, Wright thinks the 9/11 victims had it coming to them. Americans generally consider the 9/11 victims innocent. Kharma is supposed to exist on an individual basis, but this kharma like thing that you and Wright believe in involves larger scale group guilt based on individual actions. I majorly disagree with both of you from a factual and a moral standpoint.



As far as I know, that was not McCain's pastor. He was some guy who endorsed McCain. I think McCain reffered to him one time as "a" (not "my") "spiritual advisor". Did McCain go to his church for twenty years? Did he have first hand knowledge of the pastor's extremist ideology being preached in church? Was he very close friends with him? If that were the case, I am pretty sure MSNBC would have been running the story 24/7. Please clear this up for us.

Its what the people think.. Its all over CNN. Also his age and health condition aren't up to par.

Its not over for Obama.

Originally Posted by Captain Sleepalot

The other problem with America is that people such as Universal Mind are much more motivated to vote by fear than reasoning or thinking about the actual issues that the candidates base their platforms on.

One has only to look at the associations that certain Presidents have had with extreme right wing evangelists who have said VERY SIMILAR things to what Jeremiah Wright said to know that this fear of the Wright-Obama association is hypocritical at best and just ignorant at worst.

I don't agree at all with Jeremiah Wright, by the way, or any other evangelical who claims that disasters and tragedies are God's way of punishing America.

If I am so unreasonable, try countering my points. I am not talking about mere "association". I am talking about going to the nut's church for twenty years and being so close to him he is compared to being his close relative. Do you honestly not understand the difference? You... are being unreasonable.

Originally Posted by Dreamworld

Its what the people think.. Its all over CNN. Also his age and health condition aren't up to par.

Its not over for Obama.

So tell me... Is the guy really McCain's pastor, the guy he goes to for spiritual advice every Sunday? Was he preaching that stuff in church? Did McCain know that and still turn to him for spiritual direction every Sunday for twenty years? Does McCain consider the pastor to be like a close relative? Talk to me.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

So tell me... Is the guy really McCain's pastor, the guy he goes to for spiritual advice every Sunday? Was he preaching that stuff in church? Did McCain know that and still turn to him for spiritual direction every Sunday for twenty years? Does McCain consider the pastor to be like a close relative? Talk to me.

Nah, you seem pretty convinced that Obama's past association with Wright is a deal breaker for you and I know there is nothing I can do to convince you otherwise.

My only advice would be to compare their positions on the issues and if you still think McCain is the superior candidate, you can at least know you are supporting him for the right reasons.

Obama has been to 57 U.S. states, and he only has 1 to go, but he has not been to Alaska or Hawaii.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpGH02DtIws

For those who don't know, there are 50 U.S. states, 48 on the mainland plus Alaska and Hawaii. It is very, very common knowledge here.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

Yeah, he thinks like you. Just like you think two year olds in Israel have horror and death coming to them, Wright thinks the 9/11 victims had it coming to them. Americans generally consider the 9/11 victims innocent. Kharma is supposed to exist on an individual basis, but this kharma like thing that you and Wright believe in involves larger scale group guilt based on individual actions. I majorly disagree with both of you from a factual and a moral standpoint.

Wright never blamed the 9/11 victims for anything. He blamed the US Gov not the victims at all. I challenge you to come up with Wright saying anything of the sort (blaming the 9/11 victims for the attacks which befell them). He was blaming the US Gov mainly not the victims themselves.

Originally Posted by dragonoverlord

Wright never blamed the 9/11 victims for anything. He blamed the US Gov not the victims at all. I challenge you to come up with Wright saying anything of the sort (blaming the 9/11 victims for the attacks which befell them). He was blaming the US Gov mainly not the victims themselves.

He said, "America's chickens are coming home to roost." He said that after talking about things that happened sixty years ago and mentioned 9/11 as an act against the same entity that committed the act sixty years ago and so forth. He was calling the bomb droppers "America" and the 9/11 victims "America" and making a connection between the two very different individuals he refers to all of as "America" and saying that what one group did created some bizarre thing that resulted in an Al Qaeda attack on the other, as if it was called for by some superstitious element. Al Qaeda did not attack the victims because they dropped bombs in Japan or because they invented the AIDS virus, so Wright was therefore talking about something superstitious and involving guilt by label. It is not like he was saying evil spread to innocent victims. He was saying action came back to the actors. Right? That is exactly how you talk when you say babies in Israel get what's coming to them because of what "the" Israelis did. More than anything, he was expressing hate against the United States and saying the United States asked for 9/11, not that Al Qaeda was way the Hell out of line.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

He said, "America's chickens are coming home to roost." He said that after talking about things that happened sixty years ago and mentioned 9/11 as an act against the same entity that committed the act sixty years ago and so forth. He was calling the bomb droppers "America" and the 9/11 victims "America" and making a connection between the two very different individuals he refers to all of as "America" and saying that what one group did created some bizarre thing that resulted in an Al Qaeda attack on the other, as if it was called for by some superstitious element. Al Qaeda did not attack the victims because they dropped bombs in Japan or because they invented the AIDS virus, so Wright was therefore talking about something superstitious and involving guilt by label. It is not like he was saying evil spread to innocent victims. He was saying action came back to the actors. Right? That is exactly how you talk when you say babies in Israel get what's coming to them because of what "the" Israelis did. More than anything, he was expressing hate against the United States and saying the United States asked for 9/11, not that Al Qaeda was way the Hell out of line.

again.....As i understand it he was not blaming the american people for it, he was going after the government and saying america does this (ie the GOV & Military) then then the chicken comes to roost or whatever that means. You know what goes around comes around. He wasn't blaming the 9/11 Victims. He was just sayin' america slaps somone and then you guys get slapped back. He wasn''t putting responsibility on the victims themselves and dont pretend he did even for one secounds, dont try and play a game of semantics here UM.

And for what its even worth have you seen even the whole sermon? All that was released were soundbites maybe you should take alook at the whole thing and not just soundbites. Soundbites can be very deceptive......