Thread: McCain is going to win

Originally Posted by TheCosmicOctopus

The fact is, we need a leader who doesn't think it's funny, good, or cool to be an idiot. McCain, like Bush, loves to brag about his awful grades in school, shows off his stunning and frightening lack of global and geographical knowledge, and is generally slumping towards dementia. If nothing else, Obama is an intellectual and he is a visionary. I know I'm probably one of those stereotypical young voters, but I really feel hopeful about him. I always used to say that poets and artists should be running the world, not lawyers. And actually, he is a published poet! We need someone who will regain the respect this country once commanded.

McCain has his problems, but he has a much better understanding of how the world works than Obama. Obama said we need to invade Pakistan, for example. Study the nature of our relationship with Pakistan, and you will see how that is a sign that Obama doesn't understand what is going on. He will not bring respect to the United States. I can assure you that if he is elected, you will be spending a lot of time with your shaking head down and in your palm. McCain made bad grades, but so did Einstein and lots of others. Grades are not a dependable reflection of intelligence. The smartest people I have ever known were not A students, and some of them were F students. Also, we need left brained people for presidents, not mere artists. I have all the respect in the world for artists... as artists, but they do not need to be in positions that require extremely good reasoning ability, especially when the future of the world is depending on their decisions. If the goal is to elect somebody who is a genius on foreign relations and economics, Shakespeare and Mozart are not the people for the job. I think that when if Obama ever decides to do some tough interviews from people who are not in his political camp, it will start becoming evident that he is pretty lost. McCain doesn't get me excited at all, but an Obama presidency would be a huge disaster. People are playing with fire by trying to get him elected.

Originally Posted by wa'el

vote NADER

YES!!!!!! Liberals, vote for Nader! Nader needs your vote! Spread the word.

Originally Posted by wendylove

Anyway, I think the chances of a McCain win against Obama is near zero. This is proberly the worst week of McCain's life, however last week was proberly the second worst week of McCain's life with his advisor saying the US is a nation of whiners.

The problem is that now Obama is having a very successful week, espically since the Iraqi prime minister agree with Obama about a time tabled withdrawal. Which, kind of puts McCain in a bad spot.

However, I really don't see how McCain can win. Firstly, he is having alot of bad weeks and lots of gaffes. Now he doing a Hillary and trying to whine that Obama is getting all the media attention.

If the economy was doing good then McCain might have a chance, however it going badly and McCain can't say the obvious i.e. that Bush economics is a failure. Which, is McCain greatest weakness. He has to seem conservative to get rid off the idear he is a maverick, however if he does that then he loses the independent vote and looks like Bush 2.

I feel sorry for McCain because the media will run lots of Obama stories and then their would be a old man in the background sounding just like Hillary Clinton saying, Obama is getting all the attention.

I hope your just messing around with all your PROBERLYs and IDEARs.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

Both choices suck, as always.

Do you think we'll ever have a good choice? I think anyone running for a position like that has to be a little screwed up to begin with.

Originally Posted by Seismosaur

Yeah, I'd like to see Obamam win.

I've never been through a presidential assasination before.

Originally Posted by TheCosmicOctopus

The fact is, we need a leader who doesn't think it's funny, good, or cool to be an idiot. McCain, like Bush, loves to brag about his awful grades in school, shows off his stunning and frightening lack of global and geographical knowledge, and is generally slumping towards dementia. If nothing else, Obama is an intellectual and he is a visionary. I know I'm probably one of those stereotypical young voters, but I really feel hopeful about him. I always used to say that poets and artists should be running the world, not lawyers. And actually, he is a published poet! We need someone who will regain the respect this country once commanded.

If all we had were poets and artists running the country, we wouldn't even be the United States of America anymore. By now we would be part of another country.








I'm not pro Democrat or pro Republican, but from what I've seen and heard of Obama. I really don't like or trust the man at all.

Although I don't really trust anyone, especially politicians.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

McCain has his problems, but he has a much better understanding of how the world works than Obama. Obama said we need to invade Pakistan, for example. Study the nature of our relationship with Pakistan, and you will see how that is a sign that Obama doesn't understand what is going on. He will not bring respect to the United States. I can assure you that if he is elected, you will be spending a lot of time with your shaking head down and in your palm. McCain made bad grades, but so did Einstein and lots of others. Grades are not a dependable reflection of intelligence. The smartest people I have ever known were not A students, and some of them were F students. Also, we need left brained people for presidents, not mere artists. I have all the respect in the world for artists... as artists, but they do not need to be in positions that require extremely good reasoning ability, especially when the future of the world is depending on their decisions. If the goal is to elect somebody who is a genius on foreign relations and economics, Shakespeare and Mozart are not the people for the job. I think that when if Obama ever decides to do some tough interviews from people who are not in his political camp, it will start becoming evident that he is pretty lost. McCain doesn't get me excited at all, but an Obama presidency would be a huge disaster. People are playing with fire by trying to get him elected.

This is the same person as TheCosmicOctopus, but I made myself a new username

The fact is, neither leader is ideal by any stretch of the imagination. I don't think either of them have a complete understanding of foreign affairs. However, even as a figurehead Obama will do a lot more for us than McCain could do with any real actions (or lack thereof). The fact that America is willing to elect a well-spoken, anti-war politician is proof that we are not the belligerent, crazed dopes our president makes us out to be. It's sad that Americans have to travel abroad and be embarrassed about their citizenship.

Einstein's bad grades are a myth, as is the idea of 'left/right brained' people. The idea of an artist running things does not mean you elect someone who can draw. It means you elect a visionary who can see beyond the myopia of our past leaders and bring us some real change in this country. The fact that McCain was in the military does in no way qualify him to take the proverbial 3 AM phone call any better than Obama.

If all we had were poets and artists running the country, we wouldn't even be the United States of America anymore. By now we would be part of another country.

Not sure what you mean. But artists FOUNDED this nation. Anyway, like I said above, I don't mean literal artists.

Originally Posted by Ellipsis

The fact is, neither leader is ideal by any stretch of the imagination. I don't think either of them have a complete understanding of foreign affairs. However, even as a figurehead Obama will do a lot more for us than McCain could do with any real actions (or lack thereof). The fact that America is willing to elect a well-spoken, anti-war politician is proof that we are not the belligerent, crazed dopes our president makes us out to be. It's sad that Americans have to travel abroad and be embarrassed about their citizenship.

Obama is not anti-war. He said he wants to invade Pakistan, though the ridicule that resulted seemed to make that matter go away. He also wants a 16 month withdrawal from Iraq, not an immediate one. He wants to add more troops to Afghanistan. What is at stake for us at this point in history is much bigger than what other countries think of us. That is a trivial matter in comparison to the major issues of these times. The bad image is a result of ignorance and rationalizations any way. Whether terrorists get their hands on nukes and other WMD's is a much bigger concern of mine.

Originally Posted by Ellipsis

Einstein's bad grades are a myth, as is the idea of 'left/right brained' people. The idea of an artist running things does not mean you elect someone who can draw. It means you elect a visionary who can see beyond the myopia of our past leaders and bring us some real change in this country. The fact that McCain was in the military does in no way qualify him to take the proverbial 3 AM phone call any better than Obama.

Einstein sucked in school. He was great at math and science, but not the other subjects. He might not have been an F student in them, but he was no honor roll student either. Lots of geniuses made not so good grades in school. My point is that grades are not a dependable measure of intelligence.

http://www.abc.net.au/science/k2/moments/s1115185.htm

The right and left brain principles are real. There are a few rogue scientists suddenly talking out of their asses lately, but they are defying a great deal of brain physiological analysis and documentation. Even if it is ever legitimately dismissed, my point is still that some people are artistic but not logical and some people are logical but not artistic. Few people are both, but the most brilliant people ever have been both. I am all for artists as leaders as long as they can also reason. Being a great artist alone is not enough to be president of the United States.

Einstein sucked in school. He was great at math and science, but not the other subjects. He might not have been an F student in them, but he was no honor roll student either. Lots of geniuses made not so good grades in school. My point is that grades are not a dependable measure of intelligence.

No he didn't. Einstein did not suck at school, although he did fail the general bit of the entrance exam, however he got special consideration and was accepted at another university, so basically he passed it.

Anyway, can you name another genius that had not got good grades in school and is considered a genius. Because I can only think of Edison.

http://www.abc.net.au/science/k2/moments/s1115185.htm

This link just says Einstein didn't fail school

So how did the myth that he failed high school start?

Easy. In 1896, which was Einstein's last year at the school in Aargau, the school's system of marking was reversed.

A grading of "6", which had previously been the lowest mark, was now the highest mark. And so, a grading of "1", which had been the highest mark, was now the lowest mark.

And so, anybody looking up Einstein's grades would see that he had scored lots of grades around "1" - which under the new marking scheme, meant a "fail".

And that means that schoolkids can't use that mythconception as a crutch any more - they'll just have to work harder...

I am all for artists as leaders as long as they can also reason. Being a great artist alone is not enough to be president of the United States.

This is rubbish. There is somemany counterexamples to this that it stupid. Anyway, Obama is actually very educated

Obama entered Harvard Law School in late 1988 and at the end of his first year was selected as an editor of the law review based on his grades and a writing competition.[16] In his second year he was elected president of the law review, a full-time volunteer position functioning as editor-in-chief and supervising the law review's staff of 80 editors.[17] Obama's election in February 1990 as the first black president of the Harvard Law Review was widely reported and followed by several long, detailed profiles.[17] He graduated with a J.D. magna cum laude from Harvard in 1991 and returned to Chicago where he had worked as a summer associate at the law firms of Sidley & Austin in 1989 and Hopkins & Sutter in 1990.[16][18]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama
I really don't know many artist who have a law degree.

Even if it is ever legitimately dismissed, my point is still that some people are artistic but not logical and some people are logical but not artistic

I read some books on creativity and I pretty sure it can be learnt.

The right and left brain principles are real. There are a few rogue scientists suddenly talking out of their asses lately

This is old, however brain scans have shown this to be too simple. For example evidence for stroke victims and brain imaging of tasks. For example, when some one does mathematics the whole brain lights up and not just the left.

He also wants a 16 month withdrawal from Iraq, not an immediate one. He wants to add more troops to Afghanistan.

You can't just pull the troops out, you need to be careful. Whats wrong with caution? Even the Iraqi prime minister wants the troops out, however he has a longer deadline.

The terriorist are in Afghanistan, we should be there not Iraq. Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 and had no terriorist before the Iraq invasion.

Whether terrorists get their hands on nukes and other WMD's is a much bigger concern of mine.

Obama is said repeatedily that he would do everything within his power to stop Iran getting WMD's, even military options if needed.

I'm all for Obama, we don't see much of him on Brit TV but from what I have seen he looks incredibly intelligent and normal compared to what we're used to seeing from the US.

An assasination might be a possibility though, that's what scares me... America's still full of loads of radical fucktards; more than most of the countries it sees fit to invade actually.

The one thing that does piss me off a bit though is how much attention is payed to him being the 'first black president' though. It's really very hypocritical; under PC you're not supposed to discriminate anybody because of race, but if a black person does well at something you have to praise them endlessly for it as if they're some kind of mental fucktard or something? It just doesn't make any sense, the issue of race should even be mentioned in the media, because that's simply prejudice and racism as far as I can tell. And it's all pretty ironic considering how he's hardly black in the first place.

Originally Posted by Xei

The one thing that does piss me off a bit though is how much attention is payed to him being the 'first black president' though. It's really very hypocritical; under PC you're not supposed to discriminate anybody because of race, but if a black person does well at something you have to praise them endlessly for it as if they're some kind of mental fucktard or something? It just doesn't make any sense, the issue of race should even be mentioned in the media, because that's simply prejudice and racism as far as I can tell. And it's all pretty ironic considering how he's hardly black in the first place.

The hubbub isn't about praising him for "doing good." It's about finally (?) having an atmosphere in this country where there's even a possibility Americans might vote for a black president. It's a historic time for the voters, not for Obama per-se.

Wow, congratulations, 2008 and you can finally tollerate a man with a tan. How historic.

Seriously, America sucks.

Originally Posted by Xei

Wow, congratulations, 2008 and you can finally tollerate a man with a tan. How historic.

Seriously, America sucks.

Sorry, but that's about the size of it.

Originally Posted by wendylove

No he didn't. Einstein did not suck at school, although he did fail the general bit of the entrance exam, however he got special consideration and was accepted at another university, so basically he passed it.

Anyway, can you name another genius that had not got good grades in school and is considered a genius. Because I can only think of Edison.

http://www.abc.net.au/science/k2/moments/s1115185.htm

This link just says Einstein didn't fail school

Read this again:

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

Einstein sucked in school. He was great at math and science, but not the other subjects. He might not have been an F student in them, but he was no honor roll student either.

Originally Posted by wendylove

This is rubbish. There is somemany counterexamples to this that it stupid. Anyway, Obama is actually very educated

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama
I really don't know many artist who have a law degree.

WTF??? Being an artist alone is sufficient qualification for being president? What are you smoking? I am not even sure if we are having the same conversation. Maybe you are reading my posts too fast. You don't know many artists who have law degrees? Uh... Exactly. WTF????

Originally Posted by wendylove

This is old, however brain scans have shown this to be too simple. For example evidence for stroke victims and brain imaging of tasks. For example, when some one does mathematics the whole brain lights up and not just the left.

It is all about primary function. Some creativity is involved in reasoning, and some reasoning is involved in creativity. But most people are much better at one than the other.

Originally Posted by wendylove

You can't just pull the troops out, you need to be careful. Whats wrong with caution? Even the Iraqi prime minister wants the troops out, however he has a longer deadline.

I am all for it, but what you are saying is that continuation of the war is necessary. I agree. So does Obama, so he should not be called "anti-war" for that reason and others. That was my point. You really need to slow down and read my posts more carefully.

Originally Posted by wendylove

The terriorist are in Afghanistan, we should be there not Iraq. Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 and had no terriorist before the Iraq invasion.

I have explained that to you so many times it is not even funny. The government of Iraq was terrorist, was a violater of our ceasfire, had a history of WMD programs and terrorism, and was in a strategic location. Nobody who can read thinks the Hussein regime was involved in 9/11. That strawman is really getting old.

Originally Posted by wendylove

Obama is said repeatedily that he would do everything within his power to stop Iran getting WMD's, even military options if needed.

Did you read my point in its entirety? How a president will handle the situation is more important than what other countries think of us. In other words, screw what other countries think of us. Let's focus on who will be a better president. Get it?

You are on major troll watch.

Originally Posted by Xei

Wow, congratulations, 2008 and you can finally tollerate a man with a tan. How historic.

Seriously, America sucks.

Would you like to compare notes? Tell me all about how great your country is, and then it will be my turn to tell you about mine.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

Would you like to compare notes? Tell me all about how great your country is, and then it will be my turn to tell you about mine.

Let's not turn this into one of those threads, if you don't mind. Chest-thumping is ugly even when you're right.

UK: Maggie Thatcher... yay, we're not sexist.
USA: Um... Oh...

Seriously there's no way there would be this ridiculous fuss if one of the election candidates was black in the UK. America is still a very racist country by comparison to the West.

Originally Posted by skysaw

Let's not turn this into one of those threads, if you don't mind. Chest-thumping is ugly even when you're right.

I did not start the nation bashing. I was responding to the person who did. I am not going to just sit there and take it when people make asinine comments against my country.

Originally Posted by Xei

UK: Maggie Thatcher... yay, we're not sexist.

USA: Um... Oh...

Seriously there's no way there would be this ridiculous fuss if one of the election candidates was black in the UK. America is still a very racist country by comparison to the West.

There is not much of a fuss over the fact that Obama is black. The fuss is over the fact that he has buddied up with too many America haters and doesn't understand foreign policy. By the way, has Britain ever had a prime minister candidate who was black and was one of the top two candidates?

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

I did not start the nation bashing. I was responding to the person who did. I am not going to just sit there and take it when people make asinine comments against my country.

I meant it as a request to both sides, not just you. Responding in kind to these throw-away remarks is what usually runs these threads quickly into the ground.

I'm just glad everyone here at DV is enlightened enough not to hold contempt for others on the basis of race, culture and social station.

Not like all those rednecks

/sarcasm

Originally Posted by Taosaur

I'm just glad everyone here at DV is enlightened enough not to hold contempt for others on the basis of race, culture and social station.

Not like all those rednecks

/sarcasm

Damn bitches spics chinks rednecks.

The fuss is over the fact that he has buddied up with too many America haters and doesn't understand foreign policy

This is nonsense, again he has said he supports Israel all the way. McCain is a flip flopper http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ieHw...d.php?t=119223

Anyway, Obama plan is the same plan as the Iraqi prime minister, the terrorist that blew up 9/11 are in Afganistan, which should have been won ages ago. If you look at foreign countries they basically support Obama, look at the Berlin speech today. Bush foreign policy was a failure, if only you could see that.

I think Obama could win the hearts and minds of the Middle east and Europe, not Bush 2.

Originally Posted by wendylove

This is nonsense, again he has said he supports Israel all the way. McCain is a flip flopper http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ieHw...d.php?t=119223

Anyway, Obama plan is the same plan as the Iraqi prime minister, the terrorist that blew up 9/11 are in Afganistan, which should have been won ages ago. If you look at foreign countries they basically support Obama, look at the Berlin speech today. Bush foreign policy was a failure, if only you could see that.

I think Obama could win the hearts and minds of the Middle east and Europe, not Bush 2.

Agreeing with the Iraqi prime minister on when to withdraw from Iraq proves Obama understands foreign policy in general? I don't think so. The "fuss" I was talking about is actually the "fuss", meaning what the masses are bitching about. Watch Iraq over the coming years and decades and see that the our liberation and preservation efforts were both successes. The threat of the Hussein regime no longer exists, Iraq is on its way to becoming a civilized country of people who don't live in the dark ages (Same goes for Afghanistan.), and we have been killing terrorists like flies. Would you say things would be better if the Hussein regime were still a terrorist government that engages in genocide with no end in sight? I thought liberals were supposed to value rights.

Would you say things would be better if the Hussein regime were still a terrorist government that engages in genocide with no end in sight?

Bush had no plan after he took over Iraq. There was tons of problems after it and I think Bush thought it would be an easy win. Even in the video McCain says Bush has no plan. I'm not oppose to wars, I'm opposed to dumb wars.

A good example was body armor, and how soldier got killed because they were not fully equiped. Or what happen to the masses amount of money pumped into Iraq. If the Iraqi defense minister gets put in jail for taking billions of dollars and Iraq minister take holidays every year, then I feel sorry for the puppet Government the US created.

Watch Iraq over the coming years and decades and see that the our liberation and preservation efforts were both successes.

Violence levels going down abit was not due to the surge but many factors. Iraq wants the troops out, they have to stand up. If not we will be in Iraq for a hundred years.

The threat of the Hussein regime no longer exists, Iraq is on its way to becoming a civilized country of people who don't live in the dark ages (Same goes for Afghanistan.), and we have been killing terrorists like flies.

The terrorist are happy in Afghanistan and there is a new breed of young muslim turning to terrorism because of the Iraq war. It called operation blow back, a good example is the 7/7 bombers that mention Iraq. So nice going, not only are the taliban safe in Afghanistan and Pakistan, America is stuck in Iraq.

Your first "response" was a tangent, and I agree with your second one. I will talk about your third one since it was on target and I don't agree with it.

Originally Posted by wendylove

The terrorist are happy in Afghanistan and there is a new breed of young muslim turning to terrorism because of the Iraq war. It called operation blow back, a good example is the 7/7 bombers that mention Iraq. So nice going, not only are the taliban safe in Afghanistan and Pakistan, America is stuck in Iraq.

The Taliban no longer runs Afghanistan. The people there can vote now, and they vote in higher percentages than we do. Think about that. Even though some nuts are pissed about that and joining terrorist scum groups on that basis, the socio-economic climate is going to improve tremendously over time, and that will take away the stone age mentality so many nuts there have had in recent years. Iraq and Afghanistan are on their way to becoming highly civilized nations.

Even though some nuts are pissed about that and joining terrorist scum groups on that basis, the socio-economic climate is going to improve tremendously over time, and that will take away the stone age mentality so many nuts there have had in recent years.

I disagree, the taliban is in control a good example is schools where most parents are scared to bring them to it in fear their children would be killed. The taliban do daily attacks and the violence levels are high.

The taliban is tolerated because they let people grow opium, the drugs trade is making them rich and since the money is passed on to the farmers and such they have the power.

The islamic revolution is not stone age mentality, I would go into it like it being started by a political philosopher that was in a France university. However, that would be a tangent.

Anyway, I think Obama would be the best choice, because he is likeable and I think ending the Iraq war and putting more troops in Afghanistan is the right tactic, the Iraqi government can stand on it own feet now and the progress against violence was largely due to them. So I think we should leave them too it, and focus where the real terrorist are i.e. Afghanistan.

I think economic issues will dominate the election, and I think Obama will win on this point, as we are in economic troubles that can be blamed on Bush. McCain is having alot of terriable weeks, I think he is toast.

I guess McCain is the wrong man in the wrong place, as this is clearly a democrat year.

I can't wait for the debates. Obama is much smarter than McCain and he knows it. He's going to make McCain look like a fool

Originally Posted by ninja9578

I can't wait for the debates. Obama is much smarter than McCain and he knows it. He's going to make McCain look like a fool

I agree. Let's hope "smarter than" counts for something this time.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

Damn bitches spics chinks rednecks.

Sir, you are talking to a redneck.