Thread: And it Begins: RFIDs

To the guy who said RFID's are good? WTF dude. They will track your every move you aren't at least a bit suspicious since george bush just created an angency that is tapping everyones phones and reading your emails. What's next? getting Fined for Not spying on your neighbor? This is how Totalitarian laws get passed. They slowly keep getting pushed into society bit by bit. One by one people except Small sacrifices of freedom. Over time you wake up inside the 4th Reich. Wake up.

Amen Ranma.

I did because they can't be read from long distances. Those things I wear on my shoes for marathons have a range of about 2 feet and their transmitters are the size of a bottle cap, implanted ones are tiny. They're aren't GPS devices.

I'd rather have paramedics be able to get my medical records and allergies if I'm unconscious. Abusive government will end in a few months and that stupid PATRIOT Act will be gone.


For those worried about identity theft. With someone's SS number and access to a medical database you can get someone's medical records. Credit cards are programmable, which is far easier to clone than an RFID.

Originally Posted by Oneironaut

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...sTempLeave.jpg

PWNT!!

Originally Posted by ninja9578

I did because they can't be read from long distances. Those things I wear on my shoes for marathons have a range of about 2 feet and their transmitters are the size of a bottle cap, implanted ones are tiny. They're aren't GPS devices.

First of all, they can be read from 30 feet. Second, it doesn't matter because all the government would need to do is install scanners on the doors of all public buildings similar to the ones you already walk through in every store. Then every time you get scanned you show up as a blip on a map. Interpolate the blips, and you are now being TRACKED.

Originally Posted by ninja9578

I'd rather have paramedics be able to get my medical records and allergies if I'm unconscious. Abusive government will end in a few months and that stupid PATRIOT Act will be gone.

Don't count on it. Governments never willingly give up control. History has proven this time and again.

Originally Posted by ninja9578

I did because they can't be read from long distances. Those things I wear on my shoes for marathons have a range of about 2 feet and their transmitters are the size of a bottle cap, implanted ones are tiny. They're aren't GPS devices.

I'd rather have paramedics be able to get my medical records and allergies if I'm unconscious. Abusive government will end in a few months and that stupid PATRIOT Act will be gone.

Under who's Administration? Certainly not McCain's or Obama's.

They can track you by putting a camera in the door of any building. Face recognition is good enough to pick anyone out of a group. They already use it in England and have been for 10 years. Those cameras can see you from hundreds of feet away. Interpolate the recognitions and they have your path.

30 feet is not the implantable chips, those are much more powerful transmitters with the most sensitive receivers. Personal chips I believe have 128 bit encryption. Think you can crack that? I'll see you in a thousand years. They can't even break the iTunes encryption and there are far more people working on that.

I think I remember they did a debate on TV of this. One of the issues and stories were like this:

Say, Melissa (made up name) walks down the street one day. Its a quiet day, not so many people out that day. She just came back from renting her favorite movie. She suddenly hears a scream. Its a murder in progess just around the corner. The moment she turns to see, she sees a man on the floor and another man running away. She feels scared herself so she flees in distress and calls for help.

Hours later, her house door is busted down and she is arrested for suspicion of murder.

What happened here??? The only things the police had to go with were that her RFID and the victims RFID and had the same GPS location the murder occured. (The killer didn't have his with him at the time). Also because Melissa fled the scene, she is viewed as a major person of interest. With no other clues to go on and only the fact that she was in the wrong place at the wrong time, but this time with actual tracking records. She is doomed to her unwanted fate.



Thats really all the details I can remember of that debate and I may have left a lot of important facts out. There were plenty more interesting stories brought up on the subject of RFIDs. Just wish I could remember

Originally Posted by ninja9578

They can track you by putting a camera in the door of any building. Face recognition is good enough to pick anyone out of a group. They already use it in England and have been for 10 years. Those cameras can see you from hundreds of feet away. Interpolate the recognitions and they have your path.

If that were true it would be a cause for concern, but such technology does not currently exist the way you're describing it.

Originally Posted by ninja9578

30 feet is not the implantable chips, those are much more powerful transmitters with the most sensitive receivers.

The size of the chip really doesn't matter much because it's a tranceiver, not a transmitter. Anyway, a chip in a driver's license is just as good because people carry those everywhere.

Originally Posted by ninja9578

Personal chips I believe have 128 bit encryption. Think you can crack that? I'll see you in a thousand years. They can't even break the iTunes encryption and there are far more people working on that.

The government has the passwords.

Originally Posted by ninja9578

Abusive government will end in a few months and that stupid PATRIOT Act will be gone.

I hate to be a bitch but this MUST be said, if you believe the abuses of government will end after this election, you need to get your head out of the sand, seriously.

Obama and Mccain are literally the same candidate, candidates of the status quo, who lie and say anything to become elected.

Once elected, they don't give a fuck about you, me your family or anyone else, they won't uphold & defend the constitution and they will not repeal the military commisions act or the patriot act I and II, they will not end the war in Iraq and they will not end the war on terror, they also will not cut taxes, and they also will not defend our borders and our civil liberties.


What they will do, both fucktard candidates, is add more government programs, increase the size of an already out of control big government, and minimize our little freedom that remains.

Originally Posted by drewmandan

If that were true it would be a cause for concern, but such technology does not currently exist the way you're describing it.

Logan Airport, T.F. Green, San Francisco International Airport, and Fresno Airport already use it and have been for several years.

Parts of Tampa are outfitted with cameras and have been for years.

London was the first city to make use of the cameras, they installed then in 1998.

The software to do it is actually fairly simple from a technical standpoint. I've love to discuss that in the tech forum.

The government has the passwords.

Come again? Not true, a company has the right to hold that kind of information. Most of these companies are international anyway and can tell the US government to go to hell. It would be illegal for the government to acquire those kinds of passwords for medical records. Medical records are confidential, even to the government.

guerilla, if you want to live in an anarchical society, go to Antarctica. Governments need to be in place to keep society running. The law clearly states that the government may not tap your phone or internet connection or credit card statements without a permit (taken away by PATRIOT of course, but as soon as it gets to the supreme court it will be shot down assuming it doesn't expire first.) That liberty will be extended to RFIDs.

I'm going to give you the same argument I give when taking about gay marriage: ahem. If you don't want one then don't get one and shut the fuck up.

You put way too much trust in your government.

Why does everyone always say anarchy when someone displays ANY disatisfaction with government, I swear to god im gonna rip my hair out.


All I was freakin saying is that the two party system is a dictatorship in disguise, they control everything and they lie to us daily and people like you ninja gobble it down like a big mac.


Honestly ninja, if you believe the patriot act will be repealed, you are INSANE, it will never be repealed under the two party system, it will only be expanded, taking away our rights....but don't use logic, just keep spewing comments about how I should goto antarctica which make no sense to the arguement at hand.

Oh lord, good thing I moved. Just a matter of time though, I daresay. ;-;

You guys, like guerilla, continually treat 'the government' like a seperate entitiy. It isn't. It is the whole country.

This is why we need to switch to some kind of Decentralized government... An isocracy of sorts.

Then people REALLY ARE the government...

But yea. Government = Group of people. Not some dictator handing out orders...

Originally Posted by ninja9578

Logan Airport, T.F. Green, San Francisco International Airport, and Fresno Airport already use it and have been for several years.

Parts of Tampa are outfitted with cameras and have been for years.

London was the first city to make use of the cameras, they installed then in 1998.

The software to do it is actually fairly simple from a technical standpoint. I've love to discuss that in the tech forum.

You're telling me that there's software that can identify faces in real-time from any angle and lighting conditions, and it can do this with dozens of faces simultaneously? And it's small enough and easy enough to install that it could potentially be put in every store and government office? Right...

An RFID scanner, on the other hand, is just a small computer with a transmitter. It can be made small enough to fit in a pocket.

Originally Posted by ninja9578

Come again? Not true, a company has the right to hold that kind of information. Most of these companies are international anyway and can tell the US government to go to hell. It would be illegal for the government to acquire those kinds of passwords for medical records. Medical records are confidential, even to the government.

I'm talking about the ones that actually exist, namely driver's license tags. The government has the passwords to those, obviously. They are government issued driver's licenses...

Originally Posted by ninja9578

guerilla, if you want to live in an anarchical society, go to Antarctica. Governments need to be in place to keep society running. The law clearly states that the government may not tap your phone or internet connection or credit card statements without a permit (taken away by PATRIOT of course, but as soon as it gets to the supreme court it will be shot down assuming it doesn't expire first.) That liberty will be extended to RFIDs.

Society does not require government. If you want detailed reasoning as to why, I suggest you visit freedomainradio.com and listen to the podcasts on that topic. As for the Patriot Act, you're incredibly naive if you think it will be 100% repealed.

Originally Posted by Seismosaur

You guys, like guerilla, continually treat 'the government' like a seperate entitiy. It isn't. It is the whole country.

This is why we need to switch to some kind of Decentralized government... An isocracy of sorts.

Then people REALLY ARE the government...

But yea. Government = Group of people. Not some dictator handing out orders...

I never explicitly stated that the government was a thing; in fact in other threads I have tried to make the point that it's an emergent entity of society. But at any rate, the fact that the government isn't real just makes certain actions that much more abhorrent. For example, someone else can take my money at gun point because of where I live, but I can't take their money, can I? How does that make sense? It only makes sense if the government was real.

I agree about the decentralized government in that it would be better. I can imagine communities of, say, a few thousand people governing themselves and trading with one another. I think that sort of society would function better in every way that our current model.

Decentralized government for the win, I say....actually...wouldn't a global decentralized government work even better? there would be no nations and no armies to fight with if its decentralized no?

Originally Posted by guerilla

Decentralized government for the win, I say....actually...wouldn't a global decentralized government work even better? there would be no nations and no armies to fight with if its decentralized no?

Well that's what I meant. Like the entire world living in close-knit communities, where people are free to live and work wherever they choose and whatnot.

Originally Posted by drewmandan

You're telling me that there's software that can identify faces in real-time from any angle and lighting conditions, and it can do this with dozens of faces simultaneously? And it's small enough and easy enough to install that it could potentially be put in every store and government office? Right...

Any normal lighting conditions, any angle less than 20 degrees off centre and hundreds of faces at once, not dozens. They've been used at the last couple superbowls to watch for terrorists. A dozen people at once? Where are you getting your information? Those cameras had to go through 90,000 people, do you know how long that would take if the cameras could only go through a dozen at a time?

The airports I mentioned also have thousands of people going through them every day. 12 at a time would be worthless.

Also can compensate for sunglasses, long hair. It's not the image recognition thing like the cheap software that's built into your digital camera. It uses 3D modeling and skin texture analysis to pick out a person as well as feature mapping.


I don't understand how you're arguing that they can't do something when the technology has been in use for 10 years. Not in development, in use. Go to the airports or the streets of London, you can see the damn cameras.


The entire PATRIOT Act won't be taken down, just the parts that are illegal. ie unauthorized surveillance.

Originally Posted by ninja9578

Any normal lighting conditions, any angle less than 20 degrees off centre and hundreds of faces at once, not dozens. They've been used at the last couple superbowls to watch for terrorists. A dozen people at once? Where are you getting your information? Those cameras had to go through 90,000 people, do you know how long that would take if the cameras could only go through a dozen at a time?

The airports I mentioned also have thousands of people going through them every day. 12 at a time would be worthless.

12 or so per second. That's what, half a million over 24 hours? Can you give a link to a wiki or something talking about this magical software?

Originally Posted by drewmandan

12 or so per second. That's what, half a million over 24 hours? Can you give a link to a wiki or something talking about this magical software?

There is other magical software called google: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facial_recognition_system

RFID tracking will require the same warrants that tracking someone with other means do. You realize that your cell phone emits far stronger signals than any RFID chip right? They communicate with towers miles away, not 30 feet. Be in range of 3 scanners, and they can triangulate your position.


Oh, I just read that article, seems lighting is no concern because the cameras scan in IR and have IR illuminators.

Originally Posted by ninja9578

There is other magical software called google: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facial_recognition_system

I stand corrected. You should be worried.

Originally Posted by ninja9578

RFID tracking will require the same warrants that tracking someone with other means do. You realize that your cell phone emits far stronger signals than any RFID chip right? They communicate with towers miles away, not 30 feet. Be in range of 3 scanners, and they can triangulate your position.


Oh, I just read that article, seems lighting is no concern because the cameras scan in IR and have IR illuminators.

Yes, but as you pointed out earlier, the government isn't privy to private signals. I'd be more worried about RFIDs than cell phones because the government has a monopoly on the justice system, don't they?

Originally Posted by drewmandan

I never explicitly stated that the government was a thing; in fact in other threads I have tried to make the point that it's an emergent entity of society. But at any rate, the fact that the government isn't real just makes certain actions that much more abhorrent. For example, someone else can take my money at gun point because of where I live, but I can't take their money, can I? How does that make sense? It only makes sense if the government was real.

I agree about the decentralized government in that it would be better. I can imagine communities of, say, a few thousand people governing themselves and trading with one another. I think that sort of society would function better in every way that our current model.

Well, when you say "the government" you're treating it like a single entity.

And yea, equal governing power amongst the people would work well.

Because, if everyone is cognizant, then you don't have stupid shit like Monarchies and Dictatorships happen.

Originally Posted by drewmandan

Yes, but as you pointed out earlier, the government isn't privy to private signals. I'd be more worried about RFIDs than cell phones because the government has a monopoly on the justice system, don't they?

RFIDs aren't issued by the government. Their immediate use is medical records and credit cards.

Most of the big names in medical technology are in The Netherlands. If the US government wants their secrets they'll have to invade The Netherlands but they don't have any oil.

Credit Card companies are multinational and can keep their secrets safe from the government. The government can't ask a credit card company for your credit information without a permit, they won't be able to get your RFID information either.