Thread: Waking up even more.

Originally Posted by stonedape

People are trying pretty hard right now just to get cannabis legalized. They can't even get it medicinally approved. There's too much bureaucracy right now to start a resource based economy. What I'm saying is how do you get the people to want this type of thing? If you want to try this avenue, how do you combat the propaganda already in play? If it's so simple, why isn't it happening?

You like your pot huh? The sheeple in this town pay $60 a quarter oz for
it.....wtf!?!
I wonder what would happen if they legalized pot? I bet the governments
would love love love to legalize pot if they could get away with it. Isn't that
just a hell of a lot more money for them? If they legalized it, wouldn't they
try to control everything about it, including growing and distributing?
Would we also be allowed to grow it too then?
Would there be pot stores everywhere like the beer stores here in Canada?
Would they grow and sell us crap pot, or could you shell out a few more
bucks for dynamite pot as well?
What would happen to the poor small time pot dealers? lol
Or would it just continue on the way it always has with no legal worries?
I'll tell you one thing, if it was government controlled, it would be a hell
of a lot cheaper.
These are the things I think about. lol

What about just straight decriminalization? Can someone elaborate on the difference between that and legalization? I tried to ask my stoner friends but they're just like 'man, it's like, one costs more money, man'. Is there even a difference at all?

Minervas, are you not a sheeple too? Don't you work for a living?
Don't you pay costly taxes? Don't you give ins.companies a lot of
money who very rarely ever have to pay out? Don't you also have
to pay for simple creature comforts?

This bugs the crap outta me....
You know how we try to call a company who provide us with some
kind of comfort? Say Hydro. You have an ordinary question. You'll
never get through to anyone. You'll just be sent from recording to
recording to recording or left on hold for an hour. But...if you
want through to their bill-payment department, they'll answer
almost immediately!
We are controlled and we have very little power. There's nothing
we can do about it that I can see. What's the solution?

Originally Posted by Minervas Phoenix

Ok Scrooge. 6 billion = need for money. I believe you uncle Mcduck. Save those pennies.

No.

Tell me, how would work be exchanged in a wonderful money-free resource-based economy?

6 billion people = need for organization. Money brings more order than an Utopian would-be system.

Originally Posted by Grod

What about just straight decriminalization? Can someone elaborate on the difference between that and legalization? I tried to ask my stoner friends but they're just like 'man, it's like, one costs more money, man'. Is there even a difference at all?

I'm not 100% sure which term is which, but one is if you take away jail time and just give a fine for weed possession under a certain weight limit (like a parking ticket), and the other means that weed possession has neither jail time nor a fine (like possessing alcohol).

Originally Posted by drewmandan

I'm not 100% sure which term is which, but one is if you take away jail time and just give a fine for weed possession under a certain weight limit (like a parking ticket), and the other means that weed possession has neither jail time nor a fine (like possessing alcohol).

Thanks, I see. I'm pretty sure the fine is decriminalization. I guess I would be down with that. It would be better than having the government regulate it's distribution and/or put a heavy tax on it. Though I don't see how they could stop you from growing your own if it was legal.

The same way they stop you from growing your own Tobacco

Tell me, how would work be exchanged in a wonderful money-free resource-based economy?

We have the technology and know how to makes resources avaliable. How is sea shells and sand at the beach exchanged? Try package and sell it to people at the beach that will be your job but no-one will care. No-one will give you the purchasing power. Try and sell ice to an Eskimo maybe tie a ribbon around it. He still won't buy it off you it's not a job anymore.

Now think about not just sand and sea shells. But other things that could be abundant. Now you have everything you need to live already. Why would you buy it? Now what is your job? If you lay in the sun it will get boring contribute/develop your talents. Realize there is an entire universe to explore not just a Job.

So how can a money system work selling sand at the beach? It can't. That's why it will fail in a resourced based economy where things are avaliable.

Remember technology can make resources intelligence is put to use.

Originally Posted by Minervas Phoenix

Satanist Panic!

Would it be possible if I facilitated my "wake up" with coffee instead, because my dopaminergic receptors are all fuzzed out.

Even the Amish and the Mennonites, who claim to be self-sustaining
communities sell their wares for money. They shop like everyone else for
food a lot of the time, and I even saw an Amish man using a debit card
at an instant teller once. Or, a lot of these self sustaining communities
just fail, not to mention Jonestown and Waco. Is this what you're talking
about Minervas?

This is what I'm talking about.

Originally Posted by Minervas Phoenix

This is what I'm talking about.

Question for Minervas: In your utopia, what happens if someone decides they want to trade? What happens if someone prints promissory notes? In your system, you have to initiate violence against such a person. I claim that this is no ideal system.

Originally Posted by Minervas Phoenix

We have the technology and know how to makes resources avaliable. How is sea shells and sand at the beach exchanged? Try package and sell it to people at the beach that will be your job but no-one will care. No-one will give you the purchasing power. Try and sell ice to an Eskimo maybe tie a ribbon around it. He still won't buy it off you it's not a job anymore.

Now think about not just sand and sea shells. But other things that could be abundant. Now you have everything you need to live already. Why would you buy it? Now what is your job? If you lay in the sun it will get boring contribute/develop your talents. Realize there is an entire universe to explore not just a Job.

So how can a money system work selling sand at the beach? It can't. That's why it will fail in a resourced based economy where things are avaliable.

Remember technology can make resources intelligence is put to use.

I am 99% sure you are Mystic7.

Originally Posted by drewmandan

Question for Minervas: In your utopia, what happens if someone decides they want to trade? What happens if someone prints promissory notes? In your system, you have to initiate violence against such a person. I claim that this is no ideal system.

They wouldn't need to.

Originally Posted by Black_Eagle

They wouldn't need to.

That doesn't answer the question.

Originally Posted by drewmandan

That doesn't answer the question.

It doesn't matter.

Originally Posted by drewmandan

That doesn't answer the question.

It doesn't matter. Your question is irrelevant.

You don't need to punish those people as they would be a small minority and it wouldn't really matter. If a majority of people did it the whole system would fall apart. I think a resource based economy would be nice, though it wouldn't work at all right now(or for at least a few hundred years). In the current state of the world, there is no way to keep the individual freedoms we have and also have a resource based economy.

The comedian on your video was Bill Hicks! My fave comedian of all time!
George Carlin is my second fave. RIP Bill and George!

In the video the guy suggests that the only way the system will change
is by refusing to participate. I have to now bring up again...look what
happened at Waco.
The statement 'Weapons of Mass Creation' is contradictory. It should
be 'Tools of Mass Creation.

Originally Posted by Black_Eagle

It doesn't matter. Your question is irrelevant.

Suppose everyone is provided 4 potatoes and 4 loaves of bread in this society. But person A really likes potatoes and person B really likes bread. What if person A trades 2 loaves of bread to person B for 2 potatoes?

What if, furthermore, person C runs a bread factory and notices that his land is better suited to producing potatoes, and he starts producing all potatoes. But then he has no bread, so he trades his surplus potatoes for some loaves of bread?

Question for Minervas: In your utopia, what happens if someone decides they want to trade? What happens if someone prints promissory notes? In your system, you have to initiate violence against such a person. I claim that this is no ideal system.

Who said it was a utopia or simply my idea. Lots of people understand this common sense who are smart. Can we get that elephant out of the room. Your questions seem to have specific bias aim here. Seriously, what happens if someone wants to sell and trade ocean water at the beach? Nothing because people are already swimming in it. You couldn't trade ocean water if you tried.

How many times do I have to make that analogy before you give it a rest and ask a new question.

Supreme it is weapons of mass creation. Don't try and change it. lol.

Suppose everyone is provided 4 potatoes and 4 loaves of bread in this society. But person A really likes potatoes and person B really likes bread.

There would be more than 4 loaves of bread and potatoes avaliable. You can swap each others food around if you want when there is enough for everyone you can have either bread or potatoes. This does not present a problem as both are avaliable. Thank you for your question.

What if, furthermore, person C runs a bread factory

Person C does not run a bread factory alone bread is produced regardless of a person. Remember it's assuming some intelligence exists. People who are not smart enough can continue in the old way of getting ripped off, thinking it's impossible.

Now here's your weekend news.

Originally Posted by drewmandan

Suppose everyone is provided 4 potatoes and 4 loaves of bread in this society. But person A really likes potatoes and person B really likes bread. What if person A trades 2 loaves of bread to person B for 2 potatoes?

What if, furthermore, person C runs a bread factory and notices that his land is better suited to producing potatoes, and he starts producing all potatoes. But then he has no bread, so he trades his surplus potatoes for some loaves of bread?

A resource based economy would have to have a surplus of food. A drastic surplus to the point that all people would be able to get enough quality food and other essentials that they wouldn't want more. I think the idea is that if stop rich people from being ridiculously greedy and power hungry, then there is far more than enough to go around. Which in the case of food, there is. World hunger could be pretty easily solved if we allocate resources correctly. Though personally I don't think just getting rid of money is gonna do this. I think it would be easier to solve these problems within the system of money, then once society is functioning on some kind of intelligent level you could get rid of money as people would be able to learn how to treat others.(though I would rather keep currency as I think it would be easier to trade high quality goods that won't be in surplus such as musical instruments and new technology, somethings will never be in abundance.)

We could take the money we currently spend on military functions and solve hunger with just that in 10-20 years easy. Maybe spend it on creating an actual education system instead of brainwashing children with patriotic bullshit like we do now. The system of one man taking advantage of another(usually called government) will not end unless we do something to fix or end the current education system. It is set right now in a way that teaches that war is something that has to happen. As long as people have this mentality we will not be free. We will not know peace. As long as one man thinks he is better or smarter or different than another because of his location in on the planet we are gonna have a class system. The only way a currency free society(or any truly civilized society) can exist is through an end to the class system.

Money is not the root of all evil. The root of all evil is one man taking advantage of another man. Even if you get rid of money this can still happen(I think this may be drews point). What we need to do is educate people.

Chase those crazy baldheads outta town.

Originally Posted by stonedape

A resource based economy would have to have a surplus of food. A drastic surplus to the point that all people would be able to get enough quality food and other essentials that they wouldn't want more. I think the idea is that if stop rich people from being ridiculously greedy and power hungry, then there is far more than enough to go around. Which in the case of food, there is. World hunger could be pretty easily solved if we allocate resources correctly. Though personally I don't think just getting rid of money is gonna do this. I think it would be easier to solve these problems within the system of money, then once society is functioning on some kind of intelligent level you could get rid of money as people would be able to learn how to treat others.(though I would rather keep currency as I think it would be easier to trade high quality goods that won't be in surplus such as musical instruments and new technology, somethings will never be in abundance.)

We could take the money we currently spend on military functions and solve hunger with just that in 10-20 years easy. Maybe spend it on creating an actual education system instead of brainwashing children with patriotic bullshit like we do now. The system of one man taking advantage of another(usually called government) will not end unless we do something to fix or end the current education system. It is set right now in a way that teaches that war is something that has to happen. As long as people have this mentality we will not be free. We will not know peace. As long as one man thinks he is better or smarter or different than another because of his location in on the planet we are gonna have a class system. The only way a currency free society(or any truly civilized society) can exist is through an end to the class system.

Money is not the root of all evil. The root of all evil is one man taking advantage of another man. Even if you get rid of money this can still happen(I think this may be drews point). What we need to do is educate people.

Chase those crazy baldheads outta town.

I think we agree in principle. My point was that scarcity will always exist at least for some things. Sure, in the future food may become post-scarcity. It's actually plausible. Right now in the Western world we already live in an economy where information, water, and to some extent even energy are post scarcity, so I can understand that notion. But I was trying to use food as a metaphor, which apparently some people didn't understand (Minervas).

You see, if and when food becomes truly post scarcity, humans will not be content to just sit around in the garden of Eden that they've created for themselves. People will want to create. But you can't immediately create an infinite amount of something. If someone invents a flying car, there won't instantaneously be 10 trillion flying cars. Scarcity will always always exist on the edge of what's possible. And hence, money will always and must always exist.

Don't confuse the messenger with the message. Fiat money is bad, but money itself is very good. This may be hard for some people to see when there are children starving in Africa right now, but some day in the future that won't be the case. At some point, food and good health will become so easy that everyone has it for free. So don't even try to use that example to bash money. If anyone wants to try to argue against money, it better damn well not mention fiat currency or poverty, because both of those have NOTHING to do with money.

scarcity will always exist

Your argument goes something like this....It's impossible to create enough resources to thrive because I want it to be more difficult. So it can't can't can't be done or else I will cry.

If someone invents a flying car, there won't instantaneously be 10 trillion flying cars

Come on use your brain. Technology can create machines which can make life easier instead of more difficult. But no you want to believe resources is impossible to create without scarcity and money, even though money is debt and scarcity is from ignorance.

money itself is very good

Yeah right.

Here is some more news then....