Thread: List of Democracies Overthrown by the U.S.

Originally Posted by Xaqaria

# In 1953, the CIA helped overthrow Muhammad Mussadegh, the elected prime minister of Iran; he was replaced by the Shah.

# In 1954, the CIA organized the ouster of Guatemalan President Jacobo Arbenz Guzman, and his replacement by a military dictator.

# In 1960, the CIA helped undermine Prime Minister Patrice Lumumba, the only legitimately elected leader in Congolese history. He was killed the following year. The corrupt and brutal dictatorship of Mobutu Sese Seko dominated Congo (which he renamed Zaire) for decades.

# In 1973, the CIA conspired against Chilean President Salvador Allende, who committed suicide after being overthrown by Gen. Augusto Pinochet.

(source)

Also, Saddam Hussein was installed as the leader of Iraq by the U.S., though the government we overthrew was not a democracy.

That is one area where I really question the tactics used by the U.S., but the overall goal in all of them, the big huge picture they were all part of, was our goal in what may have been the most important struggle in all of human history, and it is one that we had to win and VERY fortunately did win. All of those overthrows had a common purpose. The same purpose was involved in the Vietnam War, the Korean War, and our aid to the Mujahideen when they fought the most powerful enemy we have ever faced. That powerful enemy was the real enemy we were fighting in all of those struggles you listed. It was all part of the Cold War.

I can't say I know enough about the details of what we did to completely justify the actions, but I will say we need to all be very thankful that the end result was the collapse of the Soviet Union. The governments you listed were supposedly in league with the Soviet Union and aiders of Soviet expansion. Maybe they were not, but our overthrows of them were at least based on that rationale.

As sick as it is, I think the large death toll numbers involved in those conflicts were deliberate messages to the Soviet Union not to fuck with us and to be careful with how they tried to expand. That has tragedy written all over it, but at least the Soviet Union never got a chance to take over the world and oppress us all with their communism. If not for the presence of the United States on this planet, I adamantly believe that the nightmare would have ended up being a reality. Is there ever any return from such a reality?

The US funded Lenin in the first place and is now become fascist itself, so...good job?

That is absolutely laughable. I know the US' excuse was the Cold War but you know the ties between these nations and the USSR were exaggerated.

What was the real commonality between these nations? Industrial nationalism. US companies owned some of their industries and the new leaders wanted them nationalized to help the people of these respective nations. Iran wanted to Nationlize its oil, Nicaragua and Guatemala wanted to nationalize their fruit companies. The widespread domcratic overthrows throughout South America were not a struggle between democracy and socialism, they were a struggle between Dole Fruit and the people of South America.

and the point of this is? Most US citizens on this forum I think are informed enough to know these.

edit: I thought I should say more about what Im implying. If you are trying to make a statement on the war iraq, people can use the excuse of writing a wrong in the first place. Any other kind of statement you are trying to make Im not catching.

Originally Posted by Omnis Dei

I know the US' excuse was the Cold War but you know the ties between these nations and the USSR were exaggerated.

I don't know it, but I definitely consider it.

How did the U.S. have an interest in the nationalizations of those companies in other countries?

They were fighting a war against those countries that were trying to nationalize those industries because US companies owned the industries.

It goes back to the IMF giving BS loans around the world and when the nations couldn't pay it back, they had to let companies privatize their industries. Then, democratically elected leaders wanted to take back these privatized industries so they got killed in plane crashes and whatnot and replaced by dictators.

Originally Posted by Omnis Dei

That is absolutely laughable. I know the US' excuse was the Cold War but you know the ties between these nations and the USSR were exaggerated.

The primary weapons used against us for the last 50 years are the Russian made AK-47, the Russian made PKM machine gun, the Russian made Dragunov sniper rifle, the Russian made RPG (Rocket Propelled Grenade), and Russian ordinances (bombs, shells, etc.). Not to mention all the Russian made SCUD missiles, anti aircraft guns, nukes (russia gave to cuba), tanks, armored personell carriers, grenades, etc, etc. I think it's fair to say Russia was quite involved with these countries.

Even Che sided with Russia as a tool against US imperialism, but it was about picking the lesser of two evils. The USSR supported the nationalist movement, but if the USSR ever tried turn any of those nations into sattelite states they'd have another thing coming. Just because you're left wing or a communist doesn't make you a soviet. In Hungary, leftwing communists started the revolution that overthrew the Soviet occupation.

It's all just a matter of who is going to be more of a lap-dog and go along with your interests: the guy in power, or the guy who will be taking their place when you blow his brains out, fully knowing you could do the same to him?

Originally Posted by Half/Dreaming

The primary weapons used against us for the last 50 years are the Russian made AK-47, the Russian made PKM machine gun, the Russian made Dragunov sniper rifle, the Russian made RPG (Rocket Propelled Grenade), and Russian ordinances (bombs, shells, etc.). Not to mention all the Russian made SCUD missiles, anti aircraft guns, nukes (russia gave to cuba), tanks, armored personell carriers, grenades, etc, etc. I think it's fair to say Russia was quite involved with these countries.

The man makes a very good point.