Thread: "Absolutely torture."

Originally Posted by hellohihello

You have to think though, it is torture, but it isn't the worst kind of torture. We could of been shoving needles and bashing hands, but we don't because that is disgusting. We need information to keep us safe against attacks. It has worked. Besides, people at Guantanamo have a cozier jail. If there is a more humane way to get information, I am all for it. People want to put their lives with many others at stake because we are pouring water down a guys nose that wants to kill us?

The only reason we waterboard instead of other torture techniques is because there aren't any outward physical effects.

Originally Posted by Invader

Hanns Scharff
I believe either the History or Discovery channel did an episode on him, although I cannot find it. There's more than just Wikipedia information on him.

Fixed the link.

I think one of the questions about such "techniques" is: "How reliable is the information?" When someone is that scared of repeated torture, chances are pretty good they'll say practically anything their captors want to hear (true or not) .

Waterboarding can be called off by the terrorist scum being waterboarded.

Now, who's ready to bitch about the torture caused by the damn terrorists? You know... the people who are boned up about torturing YOU. Where's the outrage over that??????

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

Waterboarding can be called off by the terrorist scum being waterboarded.

Now, who's ready to bitch about the torture caused by the damn terrorists? You know... the people who are boned up about torturing YOU. Where's the outrage over that??????

This man speaks truth. They capture you, you are going to be in the worst condition ever.

Originally Posted by hellohihello

They capture you, you are going to be in the worst condition ever.

Aye, let's get rid of the competition.

Originally Posted by hellohihello

They capture you, you are going to be in the worst condition ever.

Originally Posted by Invader

Aye, let's get rid of the competition.

Haha, good one.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

Waterboarding can be called off by the terrorist scum being waterboarded.

Now, who's ready to bitch about the torture caused by the damn terrorists? You know... the people who are boned up about torturing YOU. Where's the outrage over that??????

If we're letting the terrorists call the shots on acceptable practices, why don't we start finding and killing their families? When we catch them we can stake them on posts along the road to Kabul.

This nation makes some fundamental claims about individual sovereignty and dignity of persons; it's why we're here. Sell that out for short term security and we've already failed to survive.

Originally Posted by hellohihello

This man speaks truth. They capture you, you are going to be in the worst condition ever.

Yes! Where are the marches against THAT?????

Originally Posted by Taosaur

If we're letting the terrorists call the shots on acceptable practices, why don't we start finding and killing their families? When we catch them we can stake them on posts along the road to Kabul.

This nation makes some fundamental claims about individual sovereignty and dignity of persons; it's why we're here. Sell that out for short term security and we've already failed to survive.

I don't think we should do that. We just have a disagreement about the nature of waterboarding. I don't think it's torture if the person can call it off. What I am really wondering at this point is how pissed off the terrorist sympathizers are at the terrorists. What do you think? Can you express anger toward the terrorists? They do want to hurt you and kill you. How do you feel about that? Will you start a thread about how much you hate the terrorists?

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

Yes! Where are the marches against THAT?????

How does that even make sense? We say we're opposed to torture and you ask "Why aren't you opposed to torture?" Who's doing it isn't the issue. We can't make the terrorists change their behavior short of prevailing against them and removing the grounds for future terrorists to arise. We can control our own behavior.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

I don't think we should do that. We just have a disagreement about the nature of waterboarding. I don't think it's torture if the person can call it off.

What kind of torturer doesn't say, "I'll stop if you tell me what I want to know?"

You ever noticed how the 8th amendment of the US constitution says the following? Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.

It doesn't say American citizens, or even people any where in it. It simply says that cruel and unusual punishments should never be inflicted. Torturing is against the constitution.

Originally Posted by Taosaur

How does that even make sense? We say we're opposed to torture and you ask "Why aren't you opposed to torture?" Who's doing it isn't the issue. We can't make the terrorists change their behavior short of prevailing against them and removing the grounds for future terrorists to arise. We can control our own behavior.

And torturing quite possibly adds fuel to the fire. Terrorists are going to take the examples of American torture practices and use them to stir more anti-Americanism.

Originally Posted by Taosaur

How does that even make sense? We say we're opposed to torture and you ask "Why aren't you opposed to torture?" Who's doing it isn't the issue. We can't make the terrorists change their behavior short of prevailing against them and removing the grounds for future terrorists to arise. We can control our own behavior.



What kind of torturer doesn't say, "I'll stop if you tell me what I want to know?"

The sadistic kind. This is where I draw the line between torture and interrogation (sorry if it's been said before, I didn't want to read all 10 pages.)

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

Yes! Where are the marches against THAT?????



I don't think we should do that. We just have a disagreement about the nature of waterboarding. I don't think it's torture if the person can call it off. What I am really wondering at this point is how pissed off the terrorist sympathizers are at the terrorists. What do you think? Can you express anger toward the terrorists? They do want to hurt you and kill you. How do you feel about that? Will you start a thread about how much you hate the terrorists?

Marching in this country against terrorists would accomplish nothing. We have no control over them, but that doesn't mean we should conduct ourselves in the same manners they do. We as America should be setting an example, regardless of what other people do.

Terrorist sympathizers is kind of like calling people Pro-Abortion.

No one sympathizes with those scum, just don't condone torturing no matter the reason.

Originally Posted by Taosaur

How does that even make sense? We say we're opposed to torture and you ask "Why aren't you opposed to torture?" Who's doing it isn't the issue. We can't make the terrorists change their behavior short of prevailing against them and removing the grounds for future terrorists to arise. We can control our own behavior.

I am asking where the outrage is. I rarely come across people who both cry out against torturing terrorists and also cry out againts the terrorists themselves. How often do you come across it? I have yet to see you do it, for example. Will you?

People can march against organizations and governments outside of their own countries. Europeans do it against the U.S. government all the time. If people would march as hard against terrorists as they do against people trying not to get attacked by terrorists, it would have an effect on at least the Muslim world, which has been in a state of deafening silence for too long. They need to do a great deal more screaming about what terrorism does to the image of their religion and the lives of their people.

Originally Posted by Taosaur

What kind of torturer doesn't say, "I'll stop if you tell me what I want to know?"

The sadistic kind, and the kind that wants to add extra torment to ensure that the answer will be correct. What the U.S. government has done is tell known captured terrorist leaders who of course have important information that they will be drowned (which is a lie) if the terrorist leader does not give information that is very needed. They do the water treatment for a few seconds and then give them another chance to talk. It works. Our government has done it three times, all three scummy terrorists were known terrorist leaders, and life saving information was pulled out of them all three times. The good thing was done in all three cases.

Again, I challenge you to show me how much passion you have against the terrorists. Will you start a thread on it?

Originally Posted by DeathCell

Terrorist sympathizers is kind of like calling people Pro-Abortion.

Both are real. Taosaur is a terrorist sympathizer, and I am pro-abortion, for example. There is way too much dysfunctional trash out there that never should have been born. Yay abortion! (for real)

Originally Posted by DeathCell

No one sympathizes with those scum, just don't condone torturing no matter the reason.

Then where is their outrage against them? How come I almost never see it from the people who oppose waterboarding and such and the rare occasions that I see what might be a spec it is a weak footnote like, "Eh, I don't exactly love terrorists."? Where is the passion?

Originally Posted by hellohihello

You have to think though, it is torture, but it isn't the worst kind of torture. We could of been shoving needles and bashing hands, but we don't because that is disgusting. We need information to keep us safe against attacks. It has worked. Besides, people at Guantanamo have a cozier jail. If there is a more humane way to get information, I am all for it. People want to put their lives with many others at stake because we are pouring water down a guys nose that wants to kill us?

Torture is ineffective.
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=1353449

Torture is illegal.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torture..._United_States

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

Waterboarding can be called off by the terrorist scum being waterboarded.

Now, who's ready to bitch about the torture caused by the damn terrorists? You know... the people who are boned up about torturing YOU. Where's the outrage over that??????

We cannot dictate the morals of our enemies;only our own.

I'd like to end with a pertinent quote,

... The United States is committed to the world-wide elimination of torture and we are leading this fight by example. I call on all governments to join with the United States and the community of law-abiding nations in prohibiting, investigating, and prosecuting all acts of torture and in undertaking to prevent other cruel and unusual punishment. I call on all nations to speak out against torture in all its forms and to make ending torture an essential part of their diplomacy...







– George W. Bush, "Statement in Support of Victims of Torture". White House Press Release. 23 June 2003. http://georgewbush-whitehouse.archiv...0030626-3.html