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    Thread: Genocide Denial, should it be a crime?

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      Genocide Denial, should it be a crime?

      In some countries like the UK, Genocide denial is legal, in some countries all Genocide denail is illegal, in some countries however Holocaust denail is illegal, but denial of other genocides remains legal. What do you think of these double standards, and what do you think of this type of legislation in general. Personally I am opposed to them, the laws themselves are often a source of suspicion and may worsen the problem they try to stop.

      A question I often wonder about is what would happen if a holocaust denier was asked his opinion, either in everyday conversation of under oath, would they be forced to lie, if so this would amount to holocaust denial being not only a speech crime but also a thought crime. Before anyone asks I am not a denier myself but belive that noone should be forced to believe things by the state, and not believing it being punishable by inprisonment.

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      It absolutely shouldn't be a crime, and I am sure it will never be one in the US. Passing any law, saying you shouldn't question something is stupid, and just another step to having a totalitarian government.

      Its totally, absolutely unacceptable. You cant censor people just because you disagree with them.

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      Man your threads are scaring me more and more. By the way, do you see a correlation between the countries that have anti-Holocaust denial laws and the countries in which the Holocaust took place?

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      Being forced to believe things is the realm of fascists and bible belt republicans.

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      Quote Originally Posted by Spartiate View Post
      Man your threads are scaring me more and more.
      It was only a matter of time until someone said that

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      Quote Originally Posted by Thatperson View Post
      It was only a matter of time until someone said that
      Well there have been a long line of not so distinguished people raising the same questions you do. If I were to use the same kind of racial profiling and stereotyping that you do, I'd bunch you with these people:


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      I don't think suggesting a change to car insurance premiums, if backed up by statistics, makes someone a neo-nazi but oh well.

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      Quote Originally Posted by Spartiate View Post
      Lol, did anyone else notice the cheap redneck beer in their hands?

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      Quote Originally Posted by Thatperson View Post
      I don't think suggesting a change to car insurance premiums, if backed up by statistics, makes someone a neo-nazi but oh well.
      Well charging people differently based on their race, criticizing gays, criticizing muslims, holocaust denial, authoritarianism, supporting what is basically the remnant of the British Nazi Party, it all adds up...

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      Quote Originally Posted by Spartiate
      holocaust denial
      Quote Originally Posted by Thatperson
      Before anyone asks I am not a denier myself
      I wasn't aware there ever was a British Nazi Party lol. To avoid going off topic maybe we should dicsuss this in the car insurance thread.
      Last edited by Thatperson; 06-06-2010 at 10:59 PM.

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      The Anti-Member spockman's Avatar
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      I, for one, am laways appalled by this 'compensation' some countries want to make up for either allowing or perpetrating the holocaust. It's a personal issue for me. Trying to condemn fascism by using fascism is stupid.
      Paul is Dead




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      I don't think that it should be a crime. For example, if I walk up to a random person on the street and say, "You killed everyone in Russia!" then he would be breaking the law if he denied it.
      spockman likes this.

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      I think that calling a persons beliefs illegal is invalid, and very totalitarian/dictator like.

      I may not agree with neo-nazi's but it gives me no right to make their views illegal, I disagree with them but, they are free to be crazy nazi's because only in a free society can this occur, if this is restricted then there goes free speech. (oh wait free speech is already dead)
      I would rather die on my feet then to live on my knees.

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      Quote Originally Posted by ninja9578 View Post
      Lol, did anyone else notice the cheap redneck beer in their hands?


      As for the actual issue, no, anyone should be allowed to believe whatever they want, rediculous as those beliefs might be.

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      It is just a mechanism to control speech as well as implement social conditioning for geo-political purposes.

      Also, if the Nazis had succeeded and genocide successful, it would probably be a crime to deny that Jews used to control everything.

      My thought on genocide is that I could care less. For example, Israel is paranoid with memories etc. about the Jews almost being wiped out, which in the future they will most likely become extinct if they do not obtain Palestine. In order to prevent their own extinction, they must commit genocide by wiping out the Palestinians. Regardless, two wrongs don't make a right. Which is worse, to commit genocide over race, an idea, or over a buck? All war is genocide.
      Last edited by ArcanumNoctis; 06-11-2010 at 08:03 AM.

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      The Anti-Member spockman's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by ArcanumNoctis View Post
      It is just a mechanism to control speech as well as implement social conditioning for geo-political purposes.

      Also, if the Nazis had succeeded and genocide successful, it would probably be a crime to deny that Jews used to control everything.

      My thought on genocide is that I could care less. For example, Israel is paranoid with memories etc. about the Jews almost being wiped out, which in the future they will most likely become extinct if they do not obtain Palestine. In order to prevent their own extinction, they must commit genocide by wiping out the Palestinians. Regardless, two wrongs don't make a right. Which is worse, to commit genocide over race, an idea, or over a buck? All war is genocide.
      Hmm?
      Paul is Dead




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      Quote Originally Posted by spockman View Post
      Hmm?
      They are a small country surrounded by countries that despise it, which without U.S. funding and support, they probably would have been overrun a long time ago. Israel needs Palestine's land for security and expansion to make itself more resilient, which is necessary to guarantee its survival. Partially, it is despised by how it acts, which it acts very arrogantly etc.. The reason it acts the way it does is so that it won't be seen as weak.

      Current circumstances are that WW3 could erupt within a couple of months due to the flotilla incidence. Another flotilla with aid is going to be sent to bypass the blockade, which Turkey has said it will escort the flotilla with some naval vessels. Turkey's prime minister has announced it may join the escort and be on one of the vessels. Israel has stated that if Turkey does that, then it will be an act of war. If Israel ends up attacking the naval escort, then it will be a declaration of war on Turkey. Turkey is a NATO member, but Israel is not. The reason Israel isn't a NATO member is because it would have to define it's borders in order to join. Israel will not define it's borders to join NATO until it acquires Palestine. The U.S. is obligated to protect NATO allies, which it will have to choose between Turkey or Israel. Most likely it would choose Israel, which if it does, then the U.S. will be kicked of NATO. Though illogical as to why the U.S. would choose to side with Israel, since it would lose geo-political power etc., the decision would be based on ideology.

      The question is Israel stupid? No. The ramifications are that if it caves into demand and allows the escort through, then potentially other countries may start to push Israel around. It is rather interesting, because in the past Israel bombed the USS Liberty. It tried to kill all survivors to prevent any witnesses, which there are reports that planes were shooting up life rafts with people on them. Seeing as Israel isn't stupid, it would probably ask for guidance from the U.S. first, since the world playing field would be altered. This means that most likely the decision of Israel bombing the naval escort would actually be a decision made by the U.S..

      Sorry if it seems off topic, but I elaborated.
      Last edited by ArcanumNoctis; 06-11-2010 at 06:44 PM.

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      Quote Originally Posted by ArcanumNoctis View Post
      They are a small country surrounded by countries that despise it, which without U.S. funding and support, they probably would have been overrun a long time ago. Israel needs Palestine's land for security and expansion to make itself more resilient, which is necessary to guarantee its survival. Partially, it is despised by how it acts, which it acts very arrogantly etc.. The reason it acts the way it does is so that it won't be seen as weak.

      Current circumstances are that WW3 could erupt within a couple of months due to the flotilla incidence. Another flotilla with aid is going to be sent to bypass the blockade, which Turkey has said it will escort the flotilla with some naval vessels. Turkey's prime minister has announced it may join the escort and be on one of the vessels. Israel has stated that if Turkey does that, then it will be an act of war. If Israel ends up attacking the naval escort, then it will be a declaration of war on Turkey. Turkey is a NATO member, but Israel is not. The reason Israel isn't a NATO member is because it would have to define it's borders in order to join. Israel will not define it's borders to join NATO until it acquires Palestine. The U.S. is obligated to protect NATO allies, which it will have to choose between Turkey or Israel. Most likely it would choose Israel, which if it does, then the U.S. will be kicked of NATO. Though illogical as to why the U.S. would choose to side with Israel, since it would lose geo-political power etc., the decision would be based on ideology.

      The question is Israel stupid? No. The ramifications are that if it caves into demand and allows the escort through, then potentially other countries may start to push Israel around. It is rather interesting, because in the past Israel bombed the USS Liberty. It tried to kill all survivors to prevent any witnesses, which there are reports that planes were shooting up life rafts with people on them. Seeing as Israel isn't stupid, it would probably ask for guidance from the U.S. first, since the world playing field would be altered. This means that most likely the decision of Israel bombing the naval escort would actually be a decision made by the U.S..

      Sorry if it seems off topic, but I elaborated.
      Alternate solution to Israel's problem...

      Seeing as they are one of the worlds leading countries in humanitarian response efforts, it would not be much trouble to try and give aid to the gaza strip after successful attacks on Hamas. Then other people wouldn't have to stand by and watch Israel kill off tons of people. If Israel strategically attacked enough Hamas leader's, well, a government that is being kept in hiding isn't a very effective one, yeah? Israel keeps up it's war with the Hamas, maybe even ramp it up a notch but with a greater emphasis on not killing civilians, and then offer aid after they accidentally hurt innocents. Win-win. So, basically, the Israeli government should just stop being a prick and get over itself and it's racism.
      Paul is Dead




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      Isreal is worse than Iran, and people estimate they have like 150 nuclear weapons. Of course that is just an estimate because Isreal is one of the only countries in the world that refuses to agree to the nuclear non-proliferation treaty, and is the only one that actively hides them.

      The only other countries in the entire world that hasn't agreed to the nuclear non-proliferation treaty, is North korea, Pakistan and India.

      Any way, I think at the moment the US would help turkey or otherwise not get involved at all. Or if we wanted to help we would just stay out of it while shiping weapons to isreal. I highly doubt the US is going to go to war with turkey, especially if isreal starts the war.

      I think its probably just a bluff through. Isreal really has nothing to gain from starting a war with turkey, and would probably lose in any real war. It just doesn't make any sense for them to do something like that.

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      Turkey is part of NATO, there's no way it's getting in a war over this. If Turkey and Greece have managed to keep their hands of each other for this long, then Israel has nothing to worry about.

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      The Anti-Member spockman's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Alric View Post
      Isreal is worse than Iran, and people estimate they have like 150 nuclear weapons. Of course that is just an estimate because Isreal is one of the only countries in the world that refuses to agree to the nuclear non-proliferation treaty, and is the only one that actively hides them.

      The only other countries in the entire world that hasn't agreed to the nuclear non-proliferation treaty, is North korea, Pakistan and India.

      Any way, I think at the moment the US would help turkey or otherwise not get involved at all. Or if we wanted to help we would just stay out of it while shiping weapons to isreal. I highly doubt the US is going to go to war with turkey, especially if isreal starts the war.

      I think its probably just a bluff through. Isreal really has nothing to gain from starting a war with turkey, and would probably lose in any real war. It just doesn't make any sense for them to do something like that.
      Direct war, Israel vs. Turkey. Israel wins. Israel vs. Turkey+Allies... Yeah... Israel doesn't want a war.
      Paul is Dead




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      If Isreal starts a war they will be cutting their own throats. I don't see how they could possibly win. In a war against turkey they could never win. Best result would be a long drawn out war, in which they kill a lot of people and eventually there is a cease fire. I wouldn't call that winning though. I can't even think a winning situation for them.

      Obviously Isreal can't invade turkey, thats just silly. If by win you mean hold out in there little area, then sure.

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      Well, Israel is kinda backed by the US.

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      No, it shouldn't. Denying the holocaust will probably piss people off, but I definately don't think it should be a crime. I mean, what's next? Outlawing non-harmful drugs and put millions of people in prisons, together with actual criminals, like rapist and murderers? Oh wait.
      Last edited by Silent_Lucidity; 06-12-2010 at 07:52 PM.

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      We should declare genocide on those who deny genocide.
      How do you know you are not dreaming right now?

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