Thread: LSD explained for what it is.

Originally Posted by Serith

your hostility will definitely convince them to see things your way.

Hostility!? Surely you jest! My goal here is not to make people "see things my way". I think differently then most people here. Arguing it out is beneficial for both sides to weigh out the right and the wrong. I'm not trying to force, or condemn anybody for anything.

Originally Posted by DeeryTheDeer

Noogah, if you're too closed-minded to want to experience anything in life and would rather just hear or read about it at school

Listen deer (I love your username! ) just because I don't wish to try LSD doesn't mean that I wish to try nothing.

Are you saying that I haven't lived life until I take LSD? Of course your not.

Originally Posted by DeeryTheDeer

Lucid dreams are even more temporary than LSD, and in most cases less vivid or life changing.

But I never claimed that they were more than that. Nor are dreams dangerous in any way. I never said dreams were life changing or spiritually enlightening. They won't put me in any danger, so they are two different things really.

Originally Posted by DeeryTheDeer

Not trying to get too personal, but really.

The same, of course. Don't worry, I'm not easily offended. I don't mean anything personal to anybody.

Originally Posted by Speesh

Ignore him and he'll go away, and then we can have some worthwhile discussion!

...waht discussion? If everybody thinks the same thing, there is little point in "discussion"

Likeminded person 1: I can't stand pickles.

Likeminded person 2: Me neither!

Likeminded person 3:They're gross.

Likeminded person 4:Yeah

Likeminded person 2: I mean, I just can't stand them!

Likeminded person 3: I know what you mean dude.

Likeminded person 5: Anyone here hate pickles?

All the likeminded people: YEAH!

These fellow pickle haters haven't had much worthwhile discussion. What was this thread made for if not to talk about the true nature of lsd? If everyone believe the same thing about, then what's the point in even discussing it?

Originally Posted by Bonsay

If you want to believe in flying donkeys for the simple reason they can't be proven, then be my guest.

God cannot be "proven" by means of physical measurement. But, there is not just lack of disproof, there is wealth of evidence and reason itself to believe in a God. There is absolutely no reason to believe in a flying donkey.

Originally Posted by Bonsay

Now go tell my grandmother how trivial and temporary the war was.

I can hardly believe you are comparing the effects of lsd to WWII. Are you just messing around?

Please! You have to be kidding!! I don't know for certain how long the effects of lsd are, but I'm quite sure that it is less then twenty-four hours at most times. You cannot comapre the physical effects of a chemical to your mind haht take place over a few hours span to the second World Ward, which lasted six years and killed thousands of people, ruined thousands of families and caused heartache destruction and general turmoil across the world.

By the way, forgive me if I come across as rather rude. It's just, this is my first debate since being banned from the R/S section. I'm having a blast. It will probably wear off after a few more posts.

I've only ever tried it once, but LSD was a very liberating experience for me. I was in my friend's basement with him and another person. We took two hits each.
It was as though the world had ended thousands of years ago and we were burried by weather many miles underground. Everyone and everything I knew outside of the basement were ancient memories. The basement was the last room in the universe. It felt like I would be there for all eternity and it didn't matter one bit. Very calming experience.
Also, the site of my friend standing, looking at the dawn through the basement window would've made the perfect album cover!

Originally Posted by Noogah

God cannot be "proven" by means of physical measurement. But, there is not just lack of disproof, there is wealth of evidence and reason itself to believe in a God. There is absolutely no reason to believe in a flying donkey.

It's an infinitely powerful flying donkey. It's omnipotence makes it's existence as valid as any other gods. So all evidence you think you have is actually the evidence for a flying donkey. It can't be disputed since it exists "outside" and it's existence can explain everything.

By the way, I never started anything about gods. Only "spiritual worlds".

Originally Posted by Noogah

I can hardly believe you are comparing the effects of lsd to WWII. Are you just messing around?

Please! You have to be kidding!! I don't know for certain how long the effects of lsd are, but I'm quite sure that it is less then twenty-four hours at most times. You cannot comapre the physical effects of a chemical to your mind haht take place over a few hours span to the second World Ward, which lasted six years and killed thousands of people, ruined thousands of families and caused heartache destruction and general turmoil across the world.

Why can't I compare it? All you are doing here is crying about how bad the war was and how "just chemicals" (which happen to define every ounce of our existence) can't do anything to compare. Argumentum ad consequentiam? No offense, but highlighting the "sadness" of an event doesn't address the point of the argument at all. Instead of telling me how surprised you are that I actually believe the fact, that experiencing the war is as real as a dream or an effect of some drug, you might want to explain why a spiritual experience of some kind can't change your life. Don't think with your emotions if you want to be rational.

Originally Posted by Noogah

Hostility!? Surely you jest! My goal here is not to make people "see things my way". I think differently then most people here. Arguing it out is beneficial for both sides to weigh out the right and the wrong. I'm not trying to force, or condemn anybody for anything.

I'm sorry, I've just never understood internet arguments like this one. What is the appeal of these things, anyway? Obviously neither side can teach anything to the other, as both side's arguments are based on irreconcilable philosophies. Do you feel you learn something from the debate? This goes to everyone, not just Noogah.

Originally Posted by Bonsay

So all evidence you think you have is actually the evidence for a flying donkey.

No dude. I don't what your trying to do here, but now you're just acting like a lunatic.

Originally Posted by Bonsay

Why can't I compare it?

Okay, I'm going to be as simplistic as I can.

The effects of war do not equal the effects of chemical/pill/drug/medicine/food intake.

Okay? Please come up with a better analogy.

Originally Posted by Serith

Do you feel you learn something from the debate?

In a strict sense, no. But I feel that I better understand the point view of those who defend LSD.

I have watched the documentary that was spoken of earlier. They gave some scientists that had troubles figuring something out some LSD and some relaxing music. You know what happened? They all solved their problems. Every single one. Some of these were math problems, some of these were philosophical theories. Either way, they came to a conclusion. LSD allows you to think more open minded and lessen how much you try to pull from thoughts you already have. This causes you to create new thoughts and connections for things, which helps in numerous ways.

Originally Posted by Noogah

No dude. I don't what your trying to do here, but now you're just acting like a lunatic.

Well that's what you do, don't you? If you can't understand it or come up with an argument, the other person must be a lunatic. Ignorance is bliss I guess.

Originally Posted by Noogah

Okay, I'm going to be as simplistic as I can.

The effects of war do not equal the effects of chemical/pill/drug/medicine/food intake.

Okay? Please come up with a better analogy.

You are being simplistic. For some reason you don't want to except the fact that you can experience some sort of enlightenment from a drug. It was not an analogy. I was trying to explain to you that it doesn't matter what makes you experience something. It's the experience that counts. Whether it's a hallucination from a drug, meditation in the desert or experiencing a war. It's not a temporary fix, if you're doing some psychedelics you aren't shooting up heroin.

Damn Noogah, they should hire you to do anti-drug propeganda commercials.

I watched this when it was on, and found a lot of it was old news. But to someone who knows little about it's pharmaceutical history I'm sure it would be a bit of an eye-opener.

It made me so sad to see that man suffer from cluster-headaches, simply because of his promise to "never take illegal drugs". Because synthetic drugs that are deemed illegal are just so different from those deemed legal and profitable.


My only wish is that they'd do a similar doc on psilocybes as well. Or on simple DMT alone. Natural substances are far more fascinating, and [in my opinion] deserve a far more objective analysis than they currently get. If synthetics get that benefit, it makes absolutely no logical sense that organics wouldn't.

Originally Posted by Bonsay

Well that's what you do, don't you?

....uh....no. No Bonsay.

Originally Posted by Bonsay

For some reason you don't want to except the fact that you can experience some sort of enlightenment from a drug.

...you can't! If you can show me HOW, that could be slightly beneficial to this argument. In fact, it might totally end it. Don't you agree?

Originally Posted by Bonsay

it doesn't matter what makes you experience something

Indeed. So why take LSD when you could just meditate?

Originally Posted by Bonsay

It's not a temporary fix

I think I kind of get what your saying. It's the memory that counts right? Somehow I don't think that's what you're saying. If it is, then that still does not justify LSD.

Originally Posted by Supernova

they should hire you to do anti-drug propeganda commercials.

Somehow, I get the feeling that the image of a thirteen year old kid explaining the downside to drugs would hardly be convincing.

...you can't! If you can show me HOW, that could be slightly beneficial to this argument. In fact, it might totally end it. Don't you agree?

Uh... watch the video for that one, if you don't want to watch it, stop trying to debate on a thread about a video that explains LSD.

Originally Posted by Walms

Uh... watch the video for that one, if you don't want to watch it, stop trying to debate on a thread about a video that explains LSD.

If any of these videos explains how LSD will enlighten you, I will indeed watch it. Please, tell me specifically which one/s, because I don't want to watch all of them.

Originally Posted by Noogah

...you can't! If you can show me HOW, that could be slightly beneficial to this argument. In fact, it might totally end it. Don't you agree?

http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/press.../07_11_06.html
http://www.bpru.org/cancer-studies/faq.html
http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5...PZGqel--WwEJLg
...

Originally Posted by Noogah

Indeed. So why take LSD when you could just meditate?

Why meditate when you could just take LSD? Why be Christian when you could be Buddhist? Why live if you could just die? The fact is that you can do whatever you want to do. I don't see why this fact discredits the power of psychedelic drugs. Does the existence of cars discredit bicycles? You still haven't given a valid reason why "drugs are bad".

Originally Posted by Noogah

I think I kind of get what your saying. It's the memory that counts right? Somehow I don't think that's what you're saying. If it is, then that still does not justify LSD.

Nothing justifies LSD for you. Apparently all you see in LSD is "drugs are bad, m'kay?". Why wouldn't that justify LSD? You haven't given a reason other than: I don't like drugs, therefore there is no reason for anybody else to like them either. Sadly, as we've seen in the marijuana thread, you like to enforce your likes or dislikes on the rest of the population. The illegality of drugs causes more damage than anything a legal status would've done. But I guess you don't care about those who go to jail for growing plants with certain beneficial characteristics.

http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/press.../07_11_06.html
http://www.bpru.org/cancer-studies/faq.html
http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5...PZGqel--WwEJLg

All that those links seem to explain is that a chemical is produced in the brain which causes strange hallucinations. Maybe you should explain it in your own words.

Why meditate when you could just take LSD?

Oh, I dunno. Maybe because you don't risk your health when you meditate? Maybe it's because, you don't risk going to jail when you meditate? Maybe it's because, you don't have to spend gobs of money to meditate? Maybe it's because, you don't risk becoming a chronic meditation addict?

Maybe because, meditation can't possibly ruin your life?

Savvy?

Why be Christian when you could be Buddhist?

Flawed analogy. In the case of lsd vs. meditation, the two accomplish the same task. In the case of Christianity vs. Buddhism, they are two totally different beliefs that say different things.

Why live if you could just die?

Another flawed analogy, for the same reasons as before. Two opposites, once producing a positive result, the other producing a negative.

I don't see why this fact discredits the power of psychedelic drugs.

I said nothing about it discrediting the hallucinations you experience with LSD. I was only making the point, why choose lsd when there is a much safer, and better alternative?

Apparently all you see in LSD is "drugs are bad, m'kay?".

Scroll through my posts dude. You'll see that I have much more to say about LSD/drugs in general then that. I've discussed how unhealthy it is, how useless it is, and on top of it being illegal, it is a bad idea.

I never said "Stop taking LSD you guys! It's bad!" in any such form or fashion. I'm not forcing anything on you guys either. I'm only giving my opinion, as you are giving yours.

But I'm not complaining about your opinion.

Why wouldn't that justify LSD?

Just because something gives you pleasant memories doesn't justify it. I'm sure that I would have pleasant memories of how fun the roller coaster was before I fell off. Not a great analogy of course, but you get the point.

But I guess you don't care about those who go to jail for growing plants with certain beneficial characteristics.

I don't. They disobeyed a perfectly reasonable law. You can live without LSD. Heck, you can live quit comfortably without it. It was their choice. They didn't have to go to jail.

If you want to kill your brain with drugs, get out of America. No one's forcing you to do anything. It's not like you don't have a choice in the matter. If your going to play the game, you have to play by the rules. And if you get caught breaking the rules, there will be a penalty, and that's your fault.

If you can't stand the rules, quit the game and go play a different game.

Also, I highly doubt that any of these people arrested for LSD were growing it for it's health benefits. I'm pretty sure it was just for the trip.

Now, if there were people growing some herb to soothe a sore throat or something, and the police just drove by and threw them in jail, then of course I would care.

However, that is not the case.

Noogah,

Stop ruining a perfectly fine, objective and scientific Topic by overloading it with your opinion which is mindless, ignorant dirt that no one's waiting for.
This documentairy is meant to break taboos and spread the unbiased truth and here you throw in a counter offensive of your Opinion; Which consists of foolish myths and lies that are scientifically ungrounded.

But you're just a pathetic frustrated anti-social forum-troll.

We would do best ignoring this poor, troubled soul. No matter how much he posts senseless provocations. We should ignore him as if he's not in this discussion at all.

So instead we can discuss this Documentairy unhindered by forum-bullying sociopaths who seek to ruin every good intelligeble discussion and end it in a riot.
To all you damn fools who wish to come spread lies and redicule other people's views(while not being aware of just how rediculous your own views are) I'd like to say:

Shut your loud mouths and Watch the Documentairy.

Originally Posted by BeenThere

Why don't you give it a try and find out? Certainly it has effects other than what you listed or supposed (assuming you've not tried it). Or are you just fishing with sarcasm?

Noogah is 11, don't tell him to do acid.

Originally Posted by Noogah

All that those links seem to explain is that a chemical is produced in the brain which causes strange hallucinations.

If you wanted to understand it you'd read it.

Originally Posted by Noogah

Oh, I dunno. Maybe because you don't risk your health when you meditate? Maybe it's because, you don't risk going to jail when you meditate? Maybe it's because, you don't have to spend gobs of money to meditate? Maybe it's because, you don't risk becoming a chronic meditation addict?
Maybe because, meditation can't possibly ruin your life?

Savvy?

We risk health every day. Maybe you should start an anti driving thread, you know you can die doing this as well.

Risk going to jail? Yeah, thanks to people like you. You're saying that something is wrong because it sends people to jail, which is basically a logical fallacy. Maybe you like to bend over to senseless authority, but that's not how I want to live my life.

You don't have to spend money to do drugs either.
You don't become a drug addict from psychedelics.

People who like to climb mountains get killed, divers drown, eaters get fat and die of a heart attack. People like to live their lives a certain way, and some psychonaut does just that. Now unless you go from person to person, warning them how they could die, I don't see why you're doing this here.

Savvy?

Originally Posted by Noogah

Flawed analogy. In the case of lsd vs. meditation, the two accomplish the same task. In the case of Christianity vs. Buddhism, they are two totally different beliefs that say different thing.

Another flawed analogy, for the same reasons as before. Two opposites, once producing a positive result, the other producing a negative.

I don't know why you keep seeing analogies everywhere. Maybe you just like to tell people how flawed their analogies are or something. That was not an analogy, I was going off on a tangent, trying to explain the same thing as I did above. You've made up your perfect life model. Now everybody has to do things as you do them; or else they are lunatics. If somebody wants to do LSD, let him. If he want's to meditate, fine...get it?

Originally Posted by Noogah

I said nothing about it discrediting the hallucinations you experience with LSD. I was only making the point, why choose lsd when there is a much safer, and better alternative?

Again. You have your perfect life model. If somebody wants to do LSD, let them, you'll never see things his way and neither will he see it your way. I mean, why would you choose Christianity, where there is a better alternative? This is what you keep asking, and now you can perhaps see how it sounds.

Originally Posted by Noogah

Scroll through my posts dude. You'll see that I have much more to say about LSD/drugs in general then that. I've discussed how unhealthy it is, how useless it is, and on top of it being illegal, it is a bad idea.

I never said "Stop taking LSD you guys! It's bad!" in any such form or fashion. I'm not forcing anything on you guys either. I'm only giving my opinion, as you are giving yours.

Well we've told you how healthy drugs can be, how useful they are, and how stupid it is that they are illegal.

Originally Posted by Noogah

Just because something gives you pleasant memories doesn't justify it. I'm sure that I would have pleasant memories of how fun the roller coaster was before I fell off. Not a great analogy of course, but you get the point.

Meditation is also just pleasant memories. And also it is useless. You could've done something useful in that time, like help the less fortunate or something. How does anything justify meditation?

Justify is a subjective concept. To some extremist 9/11 is justifiable. Now I'm not a Muslim extremist, but I can see why it would be. I'm not a member of some tribe in the Peruvian jungle, but I can understand why their culture revolves around a psychedelic drug. I can also understand your justifications. But since we share these laws, in the light of the potential positive effects of a drug and the negative effects of persecution, I favour legalization.

Originally Posted by Noogah

I don't. They disobeyed a perfectly reasonable law. You can live without LSD. Heck, you can live quit comfortably without it. It was their choice. They didn't have to go to jail.

As I said above, these might be your values. Live this way, follow this law, do what I say... But I am sorry. As I said, stupid laws shouldn't be followed. It was perfectly reasonable to execute Jews in Nazi Germany too, so it's easy to see why laws shouldn't be taken as absolutes. Unless you support totalitarian systems.

You can live comfortably without it? You might not need to smoke weed when you feel like it. But the research on cancer cures might just be something useful, don't you think? I like to feel like I own my body. Including what I ingest, if it doesn't influence others. If I want to smoke or use a drug, then it's none of "your" business. So no, illegality makes no sense. Unless countries also own the people, instead of it being the other way around.

Originally Posted by Noogah

If you want to kill your brain with drugs, get out of America. No one's forcing you to do anything. It's not like you don't have a choice in the matter. If your going to play the game, you have to play by the rules. And if you get caught breaking the rules, there will be a penalty, and that's your fault.

The only problem is that the country should belong to the people. Not to some dictator who happens to share your opinion on the matter.

Originally Posted by Noogah

But I never claimed that they were more than that. Nor are dreams dangerous in any way. I never said dreams were life changing or spiritually enlightening. They won't put me in any danger, so they are two different things really.

LSD may have a few risks, but I wouldn't necessarily call it dangerous. It's certainly never killed anyone, just by its own direct causes.

I have a question for those of you who have done psychadelics. What have you learned from the experience? I've heard some fascinating responses to that question elsewhere, but I'm curious as to what DV members in particular have learned.

Well I've learned something from weed..that's the only psychedelic I've done.

I've learned...just be yourself....be happy. Weed reveals your true self to you. If you hit the cheeba, and your scared or paranoid...that's how you are sober...unconsciously.

I hang out, and just am so happy and positive, that people look at me like I'm coked up or something.

Sometimes when I drink with my neighbor, I act like my inner child completely, hype and energized and shit, he probably thinks I do coke or something when I don't. I just be myself, and release all of the fear.

This really has to be experienced, It can't be put into words...like you really feel a high when you release the fear and be yourself and be happy.

Weed took me down low.....then took me ALL the way HIGH.

Originally Posted by SKA

But you're just a pathetic frustrated anti-social forum-troll.

Are you kidding!? YOU may be having a bad time here, but I'm rather enjoying this debate. It's like taking your brain on a walk.

No one invited you. Ignore me if you wish. Go right ahead. That's your right.

Originally Posted by CarmineEternity

Noogah is 11

*13

Originally Posted by Bonsay

If you wanted to understand it you'd read it.

Are my facts about the articles incorrect?

Originally Posted by Bonsay

We risk health every day. Maybe you should start an anti driving thread, you know you can die doing this as well.

Driving is a means of transportation. It does something useful. It is vital to to our way of life.

Originally Posted by Bonsay

Risk going to jail? Yeah, thanks to people like you.

Do you know why LSD was abolished in the first place? And "just because" is not an adeuqate answer. It wasn't just banned to be mean, there were reasons for it. GOOD reasons. You might look them some day.

Originally Posted by Bonsay

You don't have to spend money to do drugs either.

No, drugs just sprout inside of your pockets.

Originally Posted by Bonsay

You don't become a drug addict from psychedelics.

Apparently I don't know the difference, but I'll take your word for it.

Originally Posted by Bonsay

People who like to climb mountains get killed

People start mountain climbing healthy. It is not until they fall that they get hurt. Now with LSD, it's inevitable. Your not hiking up a mountain, your jumping from a ledge. There WILL be negative effects to a degree. You will be mentally impaired. When you take it, you basically put your health in the hands of the drug.

Originally Posted by Bonsay

eaters get fat and die of a heart attack.

They have bad diets. Also, do you see any alternative to eating?

Originally Posted by Bonsay

People like to live their lives a certain way, and some psychonaut does just that.

I hardly consider entoxicating your mind to be a way of life. It's an activity, not a style that is consistently reflected in your daily affairs.

Originally Posted by Bonsay

Now unless you go from person to person, warning them how they could die, I don't see why you're doing this here.

Life is life. Life has risks. No need to induce more risks by taking a useless drug.

Originally Posted by Bonsay

You've made up your perfect life model.

I hardly consider myself as having a perfect life model. I disagree with drugs. That's a life model?

Originally Posted by Bonsay

If somebody wants to do LSD, let him.

Well I'm not stopping you am I? I'm only debating as to wether or not it bears any practical use.

Originally Posted by Bonsay

Well we've told you how healthy drugs can be, how useful they are, and how stupid it is that they are illegal.

Right. And the whole reason I'm here is because to me your reasoning seems illogical, and I'm debating it. You're here for the same purpose, or so I presume.

Originally Posted by Bonsay

Meditation is also just pleasant memories. And also it is useless.

...and it also takes no toll on your body.

Originally Posted by Bonsay

It was perfectly reasonable to execute Jews in Nazi Germany too, so it's easy to see why laws shouldn't be taken as absolutes.

No, it wasn't. Here you go again on some weird rant. Are you comparing the murdering of Jews to the abolishment of drugs???

Originally Posted by Bonsay

But the research on cancer cures might just be something useful, don't you think?

Do you have cancer?

As I've said before. You don't take cough medicine when you have no cough. And when you do, you only take enough to cure it.

Your purpose for using LSD is for the hallucinations it gives you, or "enlightenment", or whatever. Not because you have cancer.

Originally Posted by Bonsay

The only problem is that the country should belong to the people.

The country does belong to the people, and the abolishment of drugs was the people's decision.

Originally Posted by Bonsay

Not to some dictator who happens to share your opinion on the matter.

What dictator? America has no dictator.

I'm going to stop this because you're just "quote mining". The important parts of my post go unnoticed, while you take the pleasure to chop it all up and respond to these small trivial parts, then be sarcastic about it. I don't know why I'm even trying.

Hey my internet's been down all weekend so I'm a bit behind on replies, but I'm getting caught up with the convo today.

Originally Posted by Noogah

Dude, I get that. That is not "inspiring", it's concentration. You can achieve the same results by simply sitting down in a quiet corner, and sorting through your mind.

As I had previously stated: Meditation is also an excellent way to bring forth your inner voice... I don't deny. And if you are acknowledging meditation as an aid in your search for inner peace and a "void filler" than you also are proving my argument about LSD and psychedelic mushrooms. IT IS PRACTICALLY THE SAME AS A DEEP TRANCE INDUCED BY MEDITATION, in a sense.

Originally Posted by Noogah

And a chemical cannot fill that void. I know what you're talking about. Every testimony of someone who became a Christian talks about it. A terrible void in their heart. In fact, I've heard of many who actually resorted to drugs to fill that void, but it never lasted. And they just needed more and more. When they became a Christian, God didn't "run out" He was always there for them in trouble, and in need. EVen when things were going right, and I can testify to that.

Religion can be a "void filler". I view psychedelics as a "type" of religion. All religion actually does is help you find peace with your inner being. (Same thing that LSD does "ironically"). Whether its a substance or a God, it makes no difference.

Originally Posted by Noogah

What happens when you run out of lsd? There goes your "enlightenment". You have to get more. But then, what happens when your stuck in jail with none? When you can't have anymore? Will you sit in a corner and be depressed?

A person could be totally enlightened and freed from depression in as little as one trip. It's as simple as that. It's not a chemically addicting substance. So, technically, your entire life could make a 180 in an eight hour period and you'll never be the same again...

Originally Posted by Noogah

It's a physical effect!!! Don't you get it!? You can't cure lifes problems by constantly entoxicating your mind with chemicals. It can make you feel great, but what good is that? It doesn't solve anything, it doesn't improve your mind or body. It only gives you a few peaceful moments, and wild hallucinations.

I understand it's a physical effect, thank you for making that so clear. But the result of that physical effect, is in fact, a very spiritual effect. You could only possibly know what I'm talking about by experiencing it yourself, but I also think I have giving enough information, as well as others, to give you a good idea. If you weren't so closed minded you might be willing to except the new idea, not blindly reject it. The way our minds work while we sleep... would you consider that a physical effect on our body? Or can it be spiritual? I have heard "christians" tell me about "visions and prophecies" that came to them through dreams. In times like this the physical and sub-real can cross over. Or at least that's my belief.

...Before Columbus, the world was believed to be flat...[/QUOTE]

I'm only debating as to whether or not it bears any practical use.

how the fuck do you know what's it's practical uses are if you've never even done it lol.

That's like telling me riding a bike isn't fun, when I KNOW it is. Your on a slow boat going nowhere fast man.

No one has ever died from any psychedelic by itself...ever. Anyone who says other-wise is lying there ass off.

You claim psychedelics aren't spiritual. but yet you "believe" in a spirit world?....LOL.

But you're just a pathetic frustrated anti-social forum-troll.

LOL +10