The Human Being The Human Cell

[juroara]

This thread relates to several going on right now. Evolution is fractal in nature, because nature is fractal. What was successful for a cellular community, will be sucessful for a human community. Excerpts from Spontaneous Evolution "The remarkable harmony displayed at the cellular level is the one truly noteworthy character that distinguishes successful eukaryotic cell communities from the current state of human society. Cellular societies that compromise our bodies truly exemplify the United States motto, e pluribus unum, "out of many, one". Each cell is an individual, yet they all behave and support one another. Unity does not mean uniformity. A liver cell does not physically or functionally resemble a muscle cell, which, in turn, does not look like a nerve cell. The cells, while functionally forming a whole, are subdivided by borders into communities that we distinguish as uniquely different tissues and organs. Each community contributes a task, talent, or mission that supports the body's survival." Are Our Cells Smarter Than We Are? "Observing the day-to-day operations of our cellular citizens may come as a blow to our collective ego because just about everything we humans do, including the development of technology, our cells did first and, to this very day, still do better: For example, cells have: *A monetary system that pays cells according to the importance of the work they do and stores excess profits in community banks *A research and development system that creates technology and manufactures biochemical equivalents of steel cables, plywood, ferroconcrete, electronic circuitry, and high-speed computer networks *An environmental system that provides air and water purification treatment that is more technologically advanced than humans have ever imagined. Ditto for the heating and cooling system. *An exceedingly complex and extremely fast communications system, like the Internet,that sends zip-coded messages directly to individual cells *A criminal justice system that detains, imprisons, rehabilitates, and yes, in a Kevorkian way, even assists with the suicide of destructive cells *Full health-care coverage that makes sure each cells gets all it needs to stay healthy *An immune system that protects the cells and the body like a dedicated National Guard" Tehnology: Cells Hit The Industrial Age Ages Ago "Approximately one half of the body's mass is comprised of extracellular matrices, known as collagen......In fact, if all the cells were removed from a human body, the extracelluar collagen would maintain the body's structure intact...... To gain an appreciation of the body's technological skill, collagen filaments spun into rope-like fiber, such as those that comprise tendons and ligaments, have vastly more strength, flexibility, and far less weight than equal-sized filaments of steel...... Pouring cartilage into preformed shapes molded by collagen matrices, chondrocytes (cells) create freestanding sculptures such as the nose and earlobe. Cartilage, like concrete, is fragile....Therefore, eukaryote freemasons learned to reinforce their cartilage with the steel-like collagen filaments, thus creating fibrocartilage, the organic equivalent of rebar reinforced ferroconcrete." The Cellular Economy: No Cell Left Behind "To maintain itself and empower its functions, a body expends energy as it works to procure and process food....Cells, then, extract energy from that food and store it in the form of stable ATP molecules, which is the cellular equivalent of money. ATP coins are exchanged among the community's cells as salaries to cover the cost of expended energy..." "In exchange for ATP salaries, cells work for the system and pool their productivity. Cells can bank extra energy savings by storing ATP coins in their cytoplasm. ATP salaries are commensurate with the cell's contribution to the body. Cells whose efforts are more vital to the community get paid more ATP...While cells are on different pay scales, every cell is provided with the basics of life: food, shelter, health care, and protection. Excess energy, the equivalent of cellular profits, is stored in what might be called regional and national banks, physically represented by..fat cells...However, savings are not stored in individual accounts. Rather all energy reserves are available for use by the entire community...energy reserves can be sent anywhere in the system where they are needed to build, upgrade, or repair the body's infrastructure....cells can freely contribute their efforts to the community and never have to worry about where their next ATP paycheck will come from. In regard to ATP/ADP exchange, the body is a closed system, which means there's no external lending mechanism or procedure from which the body can borrow energy...there is no Federal Reserve Bank with the power to coin ATP....This means that cells cannot charge dept on an Ascended MasterCard to be repaid in the a future lifetime - with or without interest. Therefore, true fiscal conservatives will be happy to know that the body's energy budget is always balanced." A Healthy Central Voice: The Cellular Intelligence Agency "The flow of information between the external environment and the internal cells makes the nervous system's regulatory function tantamount to the body's government. The governing nervous system does not tell the other body cells how to do their jobs. The heart cells beat and the cells of the digestive system process food because of their own built-in intelligence....Ganglia resemble state governments that process local organ-related information, as distinct from the brain, which functions as the central government and manages what might be called the affairs of the "Federation of Organs"... As the central information processing system, the brain trusts that the organs and organ systems will regulate their own functions, and it continues to operate under that protocol until it recieves an indication that a job isn't being performed properly.... It is profoundly important to emphasize that the nervous system is not a top-down means of authoritarian control but, rather, an interactive communication system....good governments and healthy bodies operate with a two-way information exchange...cellular citizens respond to informaton stimuli within the body by voicing their opinions to the central nervous system via communication that we perceive as emotions and symptoms" (are you hungry yet? ) The Natural Economy: What Would Our Cells Do? "By contrasting the successful cellular economy with the failing global fiscal economy, we can identify four fundamental principles of economics in which human policies profoundly differ from cellular practices. Principle One: Wealth is Well-Being When cells assembled...the economic emphasis was not on the wealth of the individuals but on the well-being of the collective, that is, the common, or shared, wealth of all. The wealth of a healthy economy is measured in terms of abundance...cellular communities posses wealth only after the basic needs of each cellular citizen are met. Therefore, cells in one part of the body do not hoard energy while cells in another part of the community are in need Principle Four: Currency Must Represent Real Wealth Money is defined by three functions: it is a medium of exchange, it represents units of account, and it is a store of value....ATP molecules are the planet's first currency, and they provide all three functions that characterize money" "And here's an important lesson we can learn from these early enterprises: The sucess of these (cellular) systems, as businesses, is not based on competitiveness with other organs and tissues. Rather, sucess is measured by how well each organ fulfills its job of cooperating with other systems." this is our evolutionary fractal destiny! I hope Bruce doesn't mind me posting so much of his book, nah, I think he's cool with it

[Maria92]

Cool. Interesting stuff. (Quietly protesting the 10-character limit)

[Xei]

Our cells aren't really smart. They have no conception of what they are doing; they've just been formed by the process of evolution to perform the chemical reactions which are best for the organism. There's a lot of dodgy science in that post by the way; for example, ATP is not used to store energy. As to your overall point which I suppose is 'if we all work together that's better than if we all work alone'... well yeah, that's pretty obvious anyway?

[acatalephobic]

Just a quick question... Have you ever read "The Lives of a Cell: Notes of a Biology Watcher" by Lewis Thomas? I realize this book has been accused of being slanted toward theism many times over....but all I know is that I found this book at a time when I considered myself spiritually-ambiguous, for lack of a better term. And I still love it to this day. If you haven't read it, I recommend it. It expounds many of the ideas you pointed out in the OP, and expands on the importance of said ideas.

[Licity]

This thread relates to several going on right now. Evolution is fractal in nature, because nature is fractal. What was successful for a cellular community, will be sucessful for a human community. Excerpts from Spontaneous Evolution "The remarkable harmony displayed at the cellular level is the one truly noteworthy character that distinguishes successful eukaryotic cell communities from the current state of human society. Cellular societies that compromise our bodies truly exemplify the United States motto, e pluribus unum, "out of many, one". Each cell is an individual, yet they all behave and support one another. Unity does not mean uniformity. A liver cell does not physically or functionally resemble a muscle cell, which, in turn, does not look like a nerve cell. The cells, while functionally forming a whole, are subdivided by borders into communities that we distinguish as uniquely different tissues and organs. Each community contributes a task, talent, or mission that supports the body's survival." Are Our Cells Smarter Than We Are? "Observing the day-to-day operations of our cellular citizens may come as a blow to our collective ego because just about everything we humans do, including the development of technology, our cells did first and, to this very day, still do better: For example, cells have: *A monetary system that pays cells according to the importance of the work they do and stores excess profits in community banks *A research and development system that creates technology and manufactures biochemical equivalents of steel cables, plywood, ferroconcrete, electronic circuitry, and high-speed computer networks *An environmental system that provides air and water purification treatment that is more technologically advanced than humans have ever imagined. Ditto for the heating and cooling system. *An exceedingly complex and extremely fast communications system, like the Internet,that sends zip-coded messages directly to individual cells *A criminal justice system that detains, imprisons, rehabilitates, and yes, in a Kevorkian way, even assists with the suicide of destructive cells *Full health-care coverage that makes sure each cells gets all it needs to stay healthy *An immune system that protects the cells and the body like a dedicated National Guard" Tehnology: Cells Hit The Industrial Age Ages Ago "Approximately one half of the body's mass is comprised of extracellular matrices, known as collagen......In fact, if all the cells were removed from a human body, the extracelluar collagen would maintain the body's structure intact...... To gain an appreciation of the body's technological skill, collagen filaments spun into rope-like fiber, such as those that comprise tendons and ligaments, have vastly more strength, flexibility, and far less weight than equal-sized filaments of steel...... Pouring cartilage into preformed shapes molded by collagen matrices, chondrocytes (cells) create freestanding sculptures such as the nose and earlobe. Cartilage, like concrete, is fragile....Therefore, eukaryote freemasons learned to reinforce their cartilage with the steel-like collagen filaments, thus creating fibrocartilage, the organic equivalent of rebar reinforced ferroconcrete." The Cellular Economy: No Cell Left Behind "To maintain itself and empower its functions, a body expends energy as it works to procure and process food....Cells, then, extract energy from that food and store it in the form of stable ATP molecules, which is the cellular equivalent of money. ATP coins are exchanged among the community's cells as salaries to cover the cost of expended energy..." "In exchange for ATP salaries, cells work for the system and pool their productivity. Cells can bank extra energy savings by storing ATP coins in their cytoplasm. ATP salaries are commensurate with the cell's contribution to the body. Cells whose efforts are more vital to the community get paid more ATP...While cells are on different pay scales, every cell is provided with the basics of life: food, shelter, health care, and protection. Excess energy, the equivalent of cellular profits, is stored in what might be called regional and national banks, physically represented by..fat cells...However, savings are not stored in individual accounts. Rather all energy reserves are available for use by the entire community...energy reserves can be sent anywhere in the system where they are needed to build, upgrade, or repair the body's infrastructure....cells can freely contribute their efforts to the community and never have to worry about where their next ATP paycheck will come from. In regard to ATP/ADP exchange, the body is a closed system, which means there's no external lending mechanism or procedure from which the body can borrow energy...there is no Federal Reserve Bank with the power to coin ATP....This means that cells cannot charge dept on an Ascended MasterCard to be repaid in the a future lifetime - with or without interest. Therefore, true fiscal conservatives will be happy to know that the body's energy budget is always balanced." A Healthy Central Voice: The Cellular Intelligence Agency "The flow of information between the external environment and the internal cells makes the nervous system's regulatory function tantamount to the body's government. The governing nervous system does not tell the other body cells how to do their jobs. The heart cells beat and the cells of the digestive system process food because of their own built-in intelligence....Ganglia resemble state governments that process local organ-related information, as distinct from the brain, which functions as the central government and manages what might be called the affairs of the "Federation of Organs"... As the central information processing system, the brain trusts that the organs and organ systems will regulate their own functions, and it continues to operate under that protocol until it recieves an indication that a job isn't being performed properly.... It is profoundly important to emphasize that the nervous system is not a top-down means of authoritarian control but, rather, an interactive communication system....good governments and healthy bodies operate with a two-way information exchange...cellular citizens respond to informaton stimuli within the body by voicing their opinions to the central nervous system via communication that we perceive as emotions and symptoms" (are you hungry yet? ) The Natural Economy: What Would Our Cells Do? "By contrasting the successful cellular economy with the failing global fiscal economy, we can identify four fundamental principles of economics in which human policies profoundly differ from cellular practices. Principle One: Wealth is Well-Being When cells assembled...the economic emphasis was not on the wealth of the individuals but on the well-being of the collective, that is, the common, or shared, wealth of all. The wealth of a healthy economy is measured in terms of abundance...cellular communities posses wealth only after the basic needs of each cellular citizen are met. Therefore, cells in one part of the body do not hoard energy while cells in another part of the community are in need Principle Four: Currency Must Represent Real Wealth Money is defined by three functions: it is a medium of exchange, it represents units of account, and it is a store of value....ATP molecules are the planet's first currency, and they provide all three functions that characterize money" "And here's an important lesson we can learn from these early enterprises: The sucess of these (cellular) systems, as businesses, is not based on competitiveness with other organs and tissues. Rather, sucess is measured by how well each organ fulfills its job of cooperating with other systems." this is our evolutionary fractal destiny! I hope Bruce doesn't mind me posting so much of his book, nah, I think he's cool with it Very interesting, the body as an economic model... I agree that the bodily currency of ATP works effectively as real worth, i.e., a gold standard. Less risk that way (coughUScrediteconomycough). The cells gets paid in energy according to the importance of the work they do, much like hourly wages in the real world and wage differences between different jobs. But... I disagree that the community cell banks are a result of cells working for a common good. Cells are not conscious, the body is. It doesn't matter if the cell "wants" more ATP, the body decides because cells are not individual organisms. Even if cells were capable of greed (storing additional ATP allotted to them) it makes sense that they would organize community banks because it is advantageous to help out cells they depend on. If the heart cells start to fail, ALL the cells fail, so I could see conscious cells metaphorically tripping over each other to provide an emergency reserve for the heart. I read this, and see not a mixed economy on a gold, but laissez-faire capitalism.

[Xei]

I repeat, ATP isn't a store of energy. Glucose is a store of energy. When the cell needs to do some work somewhere however it would be extremely inefficient to move the massive glucose molecule and all of the complex machinery required to break it down to where the work needs to be done, so instead cells have large factories where the energy in the glucose is transferred to a small molecule (ATP) when required, which can be taken easily where the energy is needed. Only a tiny proportion of energy in a cell is in the form of ATP. It's an intermediate. The closest thing to a gold standard is glucose.

[juroara]

I repeat, ATP isn't a store of energy. Glucose is a store of energy. When the cell needs to do some work somewhere however it would be extremely inefficient to move the massive glucose molecule and all of the complex machinery required to break it down to where the work needs to be done, so instead cells have large factories where the energy in the glucose is transferred to a small molecule (ATP) when required, which can be taken easily where the energy is needed. Only a tiny proportion of energy in a cell is in the form of ATP. It's an intermediate. The closest thing to a gold standard is glucose. I'm not going to argue with you But then again I have no reason to argue with Bruce. He is a cell biologist with a PhD teaching at the University level, and has done research into genetics that has actually changed our understanding of genetic determinism ATP being a unit of energy was equated to money being a unit of energy. Even your own post would make ATP more like money than glucose. Money was meant to be a convenient way to perform the transaction of energy and free us from a bartering system Bruce is a teacher who loves to equate the cells to human beings so that you can understand them better. It's not necessary to take him literally. What you're not getting to see is the rest of the book. It is NOT Bruce's argument that these cells are consciously aware of what they are doing. Nor is that important to the message. What Bruce does argue that evolution spurred these individual cells to obtain more awareness, as more awareness equated to greater chance of survival. In the biological sense more awareness is achieved by growing larger and having more senses along the membrane to interact with the environment. As cells reached a real physical limit in size, the next best way to obtain more awareness is to come together as a community and share information. All bacteria for example speak a language distinct to their own species. They survive because they can and do share information. What Bruce does argue is that together, as a trillion celled community, they create something that is sophisticated and extremely intelligent. How intelligent? Your brain technically speaking is a community of nerve cells that share information. The result is your own self! Take a moment to understand this message. A single and virtually meaningless cell, becomes something so much greater than it ever will be just because it's a part of a community sharing information. What Bruce does argue is that nature is fractal and therefore so is evolution. He's not the only cell biologist who believes this. Just by being on the internet we are now the equivalent of those cells sharing information. Many people from many walks of life have argued that the internet is some how a part of mankinds next great step in evolution. Why? Because through the internet mankind has the capacity to be connected globally.

[juroara]

I disagree that the community cell banks are a result of cells working for a common good. Cells are not conscious, the body is. It doesn't matter if the cell "wants" more ATP, the body decides because cells are not individual organisms. Even if cells were capable of greed (storing additional ATP allotted to them) it makes sense that they would organize community banks because it is advantageous to help out cells they depend on. If the heart cells start to fail, ALL the cells fail, so I could see conscious cells metaphorically tripping over each other to provide an emergency reserve for the heart. Bruce having taught thousands of students understands completely why you would think that cells are not 'individuals'. Early on in the book he explains how the cell is in fact an individual You can take a cell from your body. Any cell. Doesn't matter what cell. And you can isolate it all alone by itself in a petri dish. Give it all the nourishment it needs. And it lives. And continues to perform as a cell should perform. Why? Because it is an individual living cell. It does not need the community, your body, to exist. Individual here is being used in the most biological terms of what a living individual is. It's not being used in a philosophical term. He's not saying they have 'individual' personalities or identities like we do. The reason why Bruce wants you to understand that our cells are individual living things, is because we need this understanding to understand the evolution of cellular communities. Bruce explains that cells 'wanted/evolved' to obtain more awareness because more awareness equated a higher chance of survival. Awareness became directly influenced with the number of perception senses on the cell's membrane. Well..eventually the individual cell couldn't grow any larger. To increase the perception senses of the membrane, cells learned to live as communities that shared information. Living as a community sharing information (all bacteria speak a language distinct to their species!) they grew more awareness collectively. As these communities grew larger, it was no longer efficient or necessary for all the cells to perform the same job. And cells evolved specialized roles, bringing organs and eventually our own brain onto the scene. This too was fractal patterned in the evolution of our own communities, from our ancient family-tribes all concerned with immediate survival, to the complex and highly specialized civilizations we have now - all each with their own central governing. Does the single cell really increase 'awareness' merely by communicating with other cells? YOU BET! Your intelligence depends on it! So if we just say "oh cells aren't conscious blah blah blah" then we totally miss the beauty of it all. Once cells could no longer evolve the individual cell much more - evolution took a new step. Evolve the community. This exploded evolution forward! And Bruce points out, more importantly, it created organisms that no single cell could ever have dreamed of! This is where humanity is. We've reached the point where the evolution of the individual human is actually intimately linked with the evolution of the whole. That is, not just a nation, but the entire human race. What will humanity become? Can we even dream of it?

[Kuhnada29]

Jurora, hopefully it's a infinite cannabis-like high lol. Humanities evolution I mean.

[Licity]

Bruce having taught thousands of students understands completely why you would think that cells are not 'individuals'. Early on in the book he explains how the cell is in fact an individual You can take a cell from your body. Any cell. Doesn't matter what cell. And you can isolate it all alone by itself in a petri dish. Give it all the nourishment it needs. And it lives. And continues to perform as a cell should perform. Why? Because it is an individual living cell. It does not need the community, your body, to exist. Individual here is being used in the most biological terms of what a living individual is. It's not being used in a philosophical term. He's not saying they have 'individual' personalities or identities like we do. The reason why Bruce wants you to understand that our cells are individual living things, is because we need this understanding to understand the evolution of cellular communities. Bruce explains that cells 'wanted/evolved' to obtain more awareness because more awareness equated a higher chance of survival. Awareness became directly influenced with the number of perception senses on the cell's membrane. Well..eventually the individual cell couldn't grow any larger. To increase the perception senses of the membrane, cells learned to live as communities that shared information. Living as a community sharing information (all bacteria speak a language distinct to their species!) they grew more awareness collectively. As these communities grew larger, it was no longer efficient or necessary for all the cells to perform the same job. And cells evolved specialized roles, bringing organs and eventually our own brain onto the scene. This too was fractal patterned in the evolution of our own communities, from our ancient family-tribes all concerned with immediate survival, to the complex and highly specialized civilizations we have now - all each with their own central governing. Does the single cell really increase 'awareness' merely by communicating with other cells? YOU BET! Your intelligence depends on it! So if we just say "oh cells aren't conscious blah blah blah" then we totally miss the beauty of it all. Once cells could no longer evolve the individual cell much more - evolution took a new step. Evolve the community. This exploded evolution forward! And Bruce points out, more importantly, it created organisms that no single cell could ever have dreamed of! This is where humanity is. We've reached the point where the evolution of the individual human is actually intimately linked with the evolution of the whole. That is, not just a nation, but the entire human race. What will humanity become? Can we even dream of it? Okay, let's say cells are individuals. It makes sense that they would be organized into a larger organism. All of their energy needs are met by working for ATP. Alone, a single one of my cells would likely die. If it survived in a Petri dish, that's because it would regularly be fed and kept warm. It doesn't matter where the energy comes from, so long as it gets it. It's a lot like people living in a city. It's not very efficient to live alone in the woods, so people go to cities where they can work and trade money for the things they want. Specialization, organization, all of that makes sense even when the cells are looking out for themselves before the others. Proof for the way multicellular organisms came about is scarce as well. Just because Bruce has a theory doesn't necessarily mean it's right. Cells joining together for mutual benefit doesn't explain how they became specialized or gained the same DNA, or cell suicide.

[Photolysis]

That work / payment analogy is completely wrong. Cells are given energy to perform a function. You wouldn't say a secretary was being paid in pen and paper. Likewise ATP<-->ADP is the mechanism by which energy is used for work in a cell. It's not a payment, or a currency, it's a means to an end.

[juroara]

Just because Bruce has a theory doesn't necessarily mean it's right. Cells joining together for mutual benefit doesn't explain how they became specialized or gained the same DNA, or cell suicide. Im not sure why you're looking for an argument? The book isn't about cellular life or the evolution of cellular life. Only about two chapters out of thirteen are specifically about cells. Bruce is only paralleling the evolution of the single cell to multicellular and complex communities to parallel our own evolution, as individuals to a global community. Which theory are you talking about? Cells joining together for mutual benefit? That's not Bruce's theory. That's evolution as scientists understand it. For example, evolution didn't clump cellular communities together so they can have war each other. The how's are a mystery! But this topic isn't about the evolution of the cell. It's about the evolution of mankind. Stay on topic.

[Licity]

Im not sure why you're looking for an argument? The book isn't about cellular life or the evolution of cellular life. Only about two chapters out of thirteen are specifically about cells. Bruce is only paralleling the evolution of the single cell to multicellular and complex communities to parallel our own evolution, as individuals to a global community. Which theory are you talking about? Cells joining together for mutual benefit? That's not Bruce's theory. That's evolution as scientists understand it. For example, evolution didn't clump cellular communities together so they can have war each other. The how's are a mystery! But this topic isn't about the evolution of the cell. It's about the evolution of mankind. Stay on topic. That's not what 99% of the OP was about... If the future of mankind is caring about "common, or shared, wealth of all", I can't say I'm too excited about the future.

[juroara]

That work / payment analogy is completely wrong. Cells are given energy to perform a function. You wouldn't say a secretary was being paid in pen and paper. Likewise ATP<-->ADP is the mechanism by which energy is used for work in a cell. It's not a payment, or a currency, it's a means to an end. At least you recognize it's an analogy! But you're forgetting what money is and does. Currency is a transaction of energy. We spend energy to create money. Such as harvesting corn and selling it. The energy of harvesting corn is represented by currency. The value of transforming the energy of harvesting corn into currency, is that currency is a 'stable form of energy'. It's not going to rot naturally on it's own unless the economy explodes. Which is one reason why we gave up bartering and choose currency as a transaction of energy instead. Now that you have this money, created by harvesting corn, you and save it, give it to someone else, or spend it. The important thing to understand here is you can just let money sit there and do nothing. As we spend money we once again have access to the energy by which it stands for. The other important thing to understand is money enables us to live, thereby enabling us to do more work - the irony of being alive. Now, the money that was created by the energy of harvesting corn, can buy clothes that also required energy to create. It takes energy to create money, and energy is given back when you spend it. And technically speaking, we also spend energy (such as driving to a mall) when we spend money. "Cells in the body manage their energy needs by exchanging molecules of adenosine triphosphate (ATP), an adenosine molecule with three phosphate chemical groups attached to it..........ATP molecules release a unit of energy when one of their three phosphates is clipped off. Discharging the energy in an ATP molecule causes it to become adenosine diphosphate (ADP), an adenosine molecule with only two phosphates. Through the efforts of their work, cells can recharge the ADP molecule by reattaching another phosphate and turning it back into an energized ATP molecule. Cells work to make ATP and expend ATP to do work ATP molecules are exchanged, like a currency, among the body's cells. Interestingly, biology textbooks often refer to ATP as the "coin of the realm" a reference to the fact that energy in the human society is equated to money." The important thing to understand that as cells create ATP, this allows the cells to expend energy later. Which is why we like money! We don't have to expend the energy right then and there. A pen and paper is a very specific thing. ATP doesn't lead to one specific kind of work. Like money, it's used for various transactions of energy.

[juroara]

That's not what 99% of the OP was about... If the future of mankind is caring about "common, or shared, wealth of all", I can't say I'm too excited about the future. It's my thread, I think I know what this thread is about!! I open up thread explaining that evolution is fractal. I then give you information of what an amazing community cells create when they work for a higher goal. Whether or not they are aware that they work for a higher goal. The point of showing you bits and pieces of what a complex community cells create, is not to talk about the evolution of cells, but to talk about what this means for humanity. How do our communities resemble the body as a whole? How does it not resemble it? For example, according to Bruce, the United Sates constitution isn't far off from the nervous system of a healthy body. And looking at a healthy nervous system in relation to a healthy body we can see why a government ceases to function properly, and it ceases to function properly when information is no longer flowing the way it's supposed to. Imagine if the nervous system communicates that this burning fire is actually cool refreshing water! It's easy to understand that a nervous system that lies to the body can result in death. What's not easy to understand is what this means for any government on the earth. It would mean that any form of government needs to be open and honest with it's people, and not withhold secrets for so called security reasons. It would mean that any government that is not open and honest is a fundamentally flawed government that is sacrificing the overall well being of its people/body. Does the US government continue the dogma that it must withhold information from her people? Yes it does.

[Licity]

It's my thread, I think I know what this thread is about!! I open up thread explaining that evolution is fractal. I then give you information of what an amazing community cells create when they work for a higher goal. Whether or not they are aware that they work for a higher goal. The point of showing you bits and pieces of what a complex community cells create, is not to talk about the evolution of cells, but to talk about what this means for humanity. How do our communities resemble the body as a whole? How does it not resemble it? For example, according to Bruce, the United Sates constitution isn't far off from the nervous system of a healthy body. And looking at a healthy nervous system in relation to a healthy body we can see why a government ceases to function properly, and it ceases to function properly when information is no longer flowing the way it's supposed to. Imagine if the nervous system communicates that this burning fire is actually cool refreshing water! It's easy to understand that a nervous system that lies to the body can result in death. What's not easy to understand is what this means for any government on the earth. It would mean that any form of government needs to be open and honest with it's people, and not withhold secrets for so called security reasons. It would mean that any government that is not open and honest is a fundamentally flawed government that is sacrificing the overall well being of its people/body. Does the US government continue the dogma that it must withhold information from her people? Yes it does. Ah, I understand now. I agree with the government part. What if you take the analogy a bit further? Cells can become cancerous... the body's corrupt politicians? And what about autolysis, a process where a cell commits suicide?

[SkA_DaRk_Che]

Ah, I understand now. I agree with the government part. What if you take the analogy a bit further? Cells can become cancerous... the body's corrupt politicians? And what about autolysis, a process where a cell commits suicide? Or urban sprawl can be equated with cancer as well.

[Kuhnada29]

Cells can become cancerous... the body's corrupt politicians? Cells repair themselves if not under stress.

[Maria92]

Cells repair themselves if not under stress. um...yeah, I'm pretty sure cancer cells don't just "heal" themselves...

[Kuhnada29]

How do you think people have gotten diagnosed with cancer and survived, diagnosed with AIDS and survived for umpteenth years WITHOUT medical treatment. Why do you think some people can live longer with AIDS, and others die quicker. http://www.naturalnews.com/007211.html

[Maria92]

Okay...here's how cancer works...cells, usually in one or a few small pockets, begin to develop genetic mutations, usually the work of an external force, such as harsh chemicals, carcinogens, or UV radiation, etc. These cells develop mutations that cause them to be able to multiply rapidly, paying no attention to normal growth restrictions and inhibitors. Now, if the tumor goes dormant and does not begin to spread actively, then there is no problem. However, if it starts going on a rampage and seeks out a big enough blood vessel, some cells will slip in and out of the blood stream at will, colonizing new parts of the body. This is where it becomes lethal as it snuffs out normal, functioning cells. The mutations are genetic, so it is *extremely* unlikely that any given cancer cell will ever correct the error and become a regular cell once more, yet alone an entire colony. The body does contain some cancer-fighting cells and compounds, but thus far, chemotherapy has proven to be the most effective at eradicating cancer cells that your immune system cannot deal with. Ongoing research is looking into how to get rid of cancer in a more "natural" way, though at the moment I place extremely little faith in any natural remedy for cancer. Stem cells, I think, would be the best way to go. Embryonic ones, to be specific. I suggest we sally forth wholeheartedly in this area, as thus far, it holds the greatest potential. But at any rate, my original point still stands: cancer cells don't heal themselves, the body does.

[Xei]

Indeed. Cells do not 'repair themselves' if you leave them alone any more than a car with a broken gear will fix itself if you leave it alone. If a cell goes wrong then the body will try to kill it. We get cancerous cells all the time, but they just get destroyed. The problems arise when the damage is done to the system that allows the body to recognised damaged cells. Should we also kill broken humans for the greater good of society?

[Xaqaria]

Humans aren't really smart. They have no conception of what they are doing; they've just been formed by the process of evolution to perform the chemical reactions which are best for the organism. Fixed Why is it that materialists are the most likely to try to remove themselves from nature? Should we also kill broken humans for the greater good of society? It happens all of the time. Also, a good book to support this thread would be "The Biology of Belief" By Dr. Bruce Lipton.

[juroara]

Ah, I understand now. I agree with the government part. What if you take the analogy a bit further? Cells can become cancerous... the body's corrupt politicians? And what about autolysis, a process where a cell commits suicide? Well what does cancer do? It grows and grows and grows and grows and grows and grows and grows, and grows everywhere compromising the delicate mini ecosystems in our body. The best example of cancer growth among humanity, in my opinion, are our very own cities that just grow and grow and grow without any thought about the surrounding ecosystems that support it. There's a good picture floating around some here in DVs that compares the growth of cancer to one of America's city from aerial view - they sickingly look too similar for comfort I don't know enough about autolysis or it's role in the human body, only that something similar takes place when insects metamorph

[juroara]

The mutations are genetic, so it is *extremely* unlikely that any given cancer cell will ever correct the error wait, hold on! stop! This belief that cancer is inevitable because it's genetic is based on genetic determinism. Good news, genetic determinism isn't as true as it used to be. DNA (or genetic cancer) is actually INCAPABLE of activating itself. Something in the environment has to actually tell the cell "okay, activate cancer!". Understanding that a signal in the environment initiates the cancer gene, we have two questions. What in the environment of the cell makes it activate cancer, and if a signal tells it to become cancerous, can a signal also tell it, stop being cancerous?? Biology of Belief is a most awesome book and informative video that deserves it's own thread. I only hope the DV community is ready for it