Thread: Paradigm Conspiracy: How and Why we are controlled

aww come on. No one??

I know it's a long read but it's worth it.

The problem I have with the premise is the whole 'conspiracy' thing. Any study of complex systems would suggest that even though it is what it is, this system of top down control can easily evolve on its own with no coordinated conspiratorial intervention.

Didn't take the time to read. Lul. But this is exactly what I mean when I say (and I say it a lot) that culture is insanity. There is no right way to behave. Stop taking things for granted. Look at how an animal behaves and try to understand its point of view. I mean. Look at what you are and the opinions you have. How much of it was pushed into you by society?

This was one of the major bad points when I chose to study and learn. The only thing that eased this a bit is that other smart people might share this point of view with me.

tldr; But I don't understand how anyone can think culture is bad. The diversity of culture is largely responsible for life being so interesting and fun. I'd rather die right now than live in a tedious plastic world.

Also, the refusal of culture would be a culture itself, therefore an oxymoron.

No scatter, not an oxymoron. Culture is the gathering of social conventions and beliefs. In fact, your like for culture only shows how affected by it you are. You were taught to like it - to like knowledge, music, videogames, etc etc. Nothing controls more than culture - after all a man's culture is the basis of what he is.

I again ask... how much of what you believe and behave was actually pushed into you by society? Why are you in the position you are now, wearing the clothes you are now, doing the things you are now, thinking the way you are now? The answer to all of those is culture.

Saying the refusal of culture is culture itself is just like saying atheism is a religion.

Originally Posted by Kromoh

No scatter, not an oxymoron. Culture is the gathering of social conventions and beliefs. In fact, your like for culture only shows how affected by it you are. You were taught to like it - to like knowledge, music, videogames, etc etc. Nothing controls more than culture - after all a man's culture is the basis of what he is.

I again ask... how much of what you believe and behave was actually pushed into you by society? Why are you in the position you are now, wearing the clothes you are now, doing the things you are now, thinking the way you are now? The answer to all of those is culture.

Saying the refusal of culture is culture itself is just like saying atheism is a religion.

Not really.

The answer to those questions isn't culture, it's physics, action-reaction. Someone who rejects culture isn't any less deterministic than someone who doesn't.

This idea of rejecting culture comes across as if the rejection is superior or more fulfilling than the embracing and enjoyment of culture, but there's absolutely no objective reference supporting that statement*. Like any other form of culture, it's a completely subjective choice of value. A culture of no culture, an oxymoron.

The topic of belief/disbelief in god is not at all comparable with the topic at hand because the first deals with an objective truth that in theory could be verified, while the second does not.

*The only thing gained by rejecting the diverse cultures around the world is uniformity, which by most people's standards would be considered a loss. Generally uniformity is equated with boringness, diversity and dynamic is what generates interest and enthusiasm.


(Hey, DNA controls us much more than culture ever has or ever will. So, should we get rid of our DNA?)

Scatter, the answer is on a much less deep level. The problem with culture isn't that it influences you. Everything influences you to a certain degree. The problem with culture is that it indoctrinates you. Right now, you're going on real dangerous philosophical terms just to try to justify your emotional like for culture. If you like it, and if it influences you, then it's not just another consequence of determinism. Your judgement of culture is clouded by your emotion. Just because "it doesn't matter" doesn't mean you can keep on with your culture. Nothing in reality "matters". Importance is an emotional human creation.

This argument is not about determinism. It involves personality. It involves human society.

Also, you're mistaking counter-culture and lack of culture. A computer has no culture. Hippies have a counter-culture. It's not an oxymoron, and you're trying to make it seem so just because of your emotional like for culture.

Boredom is an emotional response like any other. Emotions are used to control you. People use your likes, your fears, and your greed to exploit you. Lack of culture isn't boring, I can assure you. If you think it is, then you have a wrong idea of what lack of culture is.

You saying lack of culture is boring is just like religious people saying atheists worship the devil.

The difference between culture and DNA is that you can reject your culture, but you can't reject your DNA (not without ceasing to exist). But obviously you know this, and only said that because you're emotionally defensive.

Final word: culture forces you to live other people's lives, and not your life. Since you mentioned DNA - how much of your personality is actually DNA, and how much was pushed into you? This is not a rhetorical question. You still haven't answered me.

Kromoh, I believe you are arguing something different than what your words imply, and it comes off as condescending towards scatterbrain.

He is right in that any consistent group of individuals will invariably develop a common culture. What it seems like you are really arguing is that either

Controlling cultures are bad and controlling.

or

Associating with other individuals within a culture allows the individual to come under the control of said culture.

Both of these are true in their own right, and I'm not quite sure which one you actually believe (if either of them). I would say you are largely arguing the second point while allowing yourself to be controlled by the overly controlling American culture in saying that all culture is bad (when you really mean this one is bad).

The fact is though, any interaction with the outside world and especially the rest of humanity allows those you are interacting with to control your actions to some degree. This is kind of the definition of inter-action.

Perhaps though, you are arguing not that culture is bad intrinsically, but to not be aware of the effects culture has on your actions is bad?

Originally Posted by Xaqaria

The problem I have with the premise is the whole 'conspiracy' thing. Any study of complex systems would suggest that even though it is what it is, this system of top down control can easily evolve on its own with no coordinated conspiratorial intervention.

I don't think the word conspiracy is used in that paper the way you think it is.

The word ‘conspiracy’ comes from ‘conspirare,’ which means ‘to breathe together.’ A new cultural paradigm begins with each person stepping out of the old and daring to breathe something new.

Believe it or not, I think there is already a paradigm shift happening. Technology like t.v. and Internet has brought different races of people together. And I think in that paper I posted they said that jobs are going from the typical boss-workers type environment to group team-work environment. Then there is "supposedly" a one world government thing.

But I find it interesting that their saying, if you break the culture role, the paradigm starts to shift or something like that.

We conform to social systems by adopting the roles that go with them, narrowing ourselves to fit the cultural agenda. We become the competitive, insecure, obedient, brain dead, soul-disconnected creature that our social systems require.

Liberation is the liberation to be who we are in the big picture, not to be narrowed by models that aren't worthy of us.

Obligingly, school systems produce people with precisely the low self-esteem that's needed for worker "flexibility."

I believe that there is a "conspiracy" (even though I know that so many of you hate that word) in that; the Powers That Be exploit our human instincts, to reach any number of ends. People are so turned off by hokey words like mind control; population control; brainwashing; etc., that they write the whole, ridiculously feasible concept off as just another tin foil hat "conspiracy theory."

But this is what goes on in pretty much all authoritative societies. Mind-games are played. Subordinates are kept subordinate (unless otherwise deemed worthy of promotion), and the powerful do what they can to keep their status, which - to them - is about more than just themselves. It is about keeping (perceived) "order".

From teachers, to parents, to cops, to politicians - there is always some level of "control" - a sense of "greater good"...a "goal" - that those in power are trying to establish or maintain. They are usually not completely forthcoming with their followers. They strive to remain one (or one hundred) steps ahead. They dictate; they orchestrate; they choreograph. This isn't to say that they're all "bad", by any means, but that is how being in a position of power works.

I haven't read this particular article, but I've read a lot of others on the topic. In my opinion, it's quite obvious that we are controlled on so many levels that the general public is either oblivious to, or willfully ignorant of. And I do believe that there might be a paradigm shift coming, or already beginning. I doubt it will be anything "global", but more significant.

I agree with Kromoh about the culture thing (if he is speaking to the 2nd point that Xaq mentioned). It's not that I openly "reject culture." It is that I'm so inclusive of all cultures, that I don't really have one, myself. A culture is not just a paradigm. It's a paradigm shared by a particular - relative - social group. So I don't think that not having a culture can be labeled as a culture, itself.

Originally Posted by Kromoh

Scatter, the answer is on a much less deep level. The problem with culture isn't that it influences you. Everything influences you to a certain degree. The problem with culture is that it indoctrinates you. Right now, you're going on real dangerous philosophical terms just to try to justify your emotional like for culture. If you like it, and if it influences you, then it's not just another consequence of determinism. Your judgement of culture is clouded by your emotion. Just because "it doesn't matter" doesn't mean you can keep on with your culture. Nothing in reality "matters". Importance is an emotional human creation.

One doesn't necessarily have to be indoctrinated by culture in order to enjoy it's intricacies. You can travel to another country and experience it's culture without recognizing said culture as some sort of unquestionable standard.

This argument is not about determinism. It involves personality. It involves human society.

Also, you're mistaking counter-culture and lack of culture. A computer has no culture. Hippies have a counter-culture. It's not an oxymoron, and you're trying to make it seem so just because of your emotional like for culture.

You're simply accusing me of being irrational without ever justifying why. We're creatures of habit, and since any imaginable society will have to eat, sleep, find nourishment, etc, costumes will develop over those tasks (ie: culture). Even if an hypothetical society made the effort to always do things differently, that would be a specific costume in itself, again culture.

Boredom is an emotional response like any other. Emotions are used to control you. People use your likes, your fears, and your greed to exploit you. Lack of culture isn't boring, I can assure you. If you think it is, then you have a wrong idea of what lack of culture is.

Again no justification.

The fact that emotions can be used to control people doesn't mean that the presence of emotions is always due to manipulation.

To me uniformity is boring and diversity is interesting. Just for example, if every single place in the world had the same culture (or "lack of culture"), travelling and exploring would instantly become a lot less interesting.

You saying lack of culture is boring is just like religious people saying atheists worship the devil.

No it isn't.

I said removing culture from human societies (if it was possible) would take away all the diversity of our species, which would cheapen human experience and to a person who values diversity just result in extra boredom.

It has absolutely nothing in common with doing a strawman about someone's beliefs.

The difference between culture and DNA is that you can reject your culture, but you can't reject your DNA (not without ceasing to exist). But obviously you know this, and only said that because you're emotionally defensive.

Once again a condescending ad hominem. The point flew by.

As DNA, the formation of culture is intrinsic to our species. I doubt you or anyone can give me an example, even if an hypothetical one, of a civilization without any culture at all.

Final word: culture forces you to live other people's lives, and not your life.

No it doesn't. I'm living proof of it, I'm hardly working towards the standards and life that my home culture values the most. Yet I still live under that culture and enjoy it for what it is, while at the same time desiring to meet and experience other cultures.

Since you mentioned DNA - how much of your personality is actually DNA, and how much was pushed into you? This is not a rhetorical question. You still haven't answered me.

The question is misleading and the answer is redundant. Every component of your personality was "pushed" into you, regardless of the origin. And the use of the term "pushed" makes it sound as if it's a bad thing with a better alternative.

@Xaq

I don't think you understand the depth of what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the full negation of culture itself, not just anti-americanism, anti-europeanism etc etc. I'm saying that any kind of culture alienates you. I'm saying that most of what you are was pushed into you by culture - and you don't even realize/question it. I'm saying that most of the opinions you consider true, you only do because you were taught them - you didn't come to those conclusions yourself.

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Originally Posted by Scatterbrain

One doesn't necessarily have to be indoctrinated by culture in order to enjoy it's intricacies. You can travel to another country and experience it's culture without recognizing said culture as some sort of unquestionable standard.

The belief that you can "enjoy culture" is part of culture itself. To you too I say, you don't understand the depth of what I'm talking about. I'm not talking about anti-americanism, I'm talking about negation of culture as a whole.

You're simply accusing me of being irrational without ever justifying why. We're creatures of habit, and since any imaginable society will have to eat, sleep, find nourishment, etc, costumes will develop over those tasks (ie: culture). Even if an hypothetical society made the effort to always do things differently, that would be a specific costume in itself, again culture.

I'm not talking about a society adopting lack of culture, I'm talking about individuals adopting lack of culture. A society adopting anything makes that anything become a culture. I'm talking about individually denying culture. Culture is what puts you into the insanity of humanity. You seem to think I'm talking about adopting beliefs, but I'm talking about denying them. Basically, about becoming an animal.

The fact that emotions can be used to control people doesn't mean that the presence of emotions is always due to manipulation.

Yes. But in your case, it is due to manipulation. I'm not stupid duh.

To me uniformity is boring and diversity is interesting. Just for example, if every single place in the world had the same culture (or "lack of culture"), travelling and exploring would instantly become a lot less interesting.

I'm not talking about "variety of cultures", ffs. I'm talking about negation of culture. Negation of every habitual behaviour society pushes into you. You don't understand the depth of what I'm talking about.

Why don't you sit on the floor on a big mall? Why do you have to wear clothes at all? Why do you believe reading books is good? Why do you eat lunch and dinner at specific times, and not when you feel hungry? It is all culture. Or, insanity. Culture and insanity are not different at all.

No it isn't.

I said removing culture from human societies (if it was possible) would take away all the diversity of our species, which would cheapen human experience and to a person who values diversity just result in extra boredom.

It has absolutely nothing in common with doing a strawman about someone's beliefs.

When I criticize culture, I'm not saying we should all gather for the humanistic task of removing culture from all human societies. You're the one interpreting that falsely from what I say (aka strawman). I'm talking about negating culture as an individual. Negating culture as a group would be just creating another culture. I'm not denying that. I'm talking about individuals.

Once again a condescending ad hominem. The point flew by.

It's not a "condescending ad hominem". My point remains. I said you're emotionally defensive, I didn't insult you. It is true you're going on real dangerous philosophical terms just to rationalize your like for culture.

Determinism being real doesn't mean you mustn't question things, you know. Or perhaps you don't know, and that's why we're having this discussion.

As DNA, the formation of culture is intrinsic to our species. I doubt you or anyone can give me an example, even if an hypothetical one, of a civilization without any culture at all.

Once again, I'm not talking about mankind, civilizations, societies, groups. I'm talkign about you. I'm talking about how manipulated you are by culture, and about how you never do anything to attenuate it.

No it doesn't. I'm living proof of it, I'm hardly working towards the standards and life that my home culture values the most. Yet I still live under that culture and enjoy it for what it is, while at the same time desiring to meet and experience other cultures.

You understand beans, do you? Why do you even wear clothes? Culture. Why do you walk on 2 legs? Culture. Why do you have things you call yours? Culture.

You don't understand the depth of what I'm talking about.

The question is misleading and the answer is redundant. Every component of your personality was "pushed" into you, regardless of the origin. And the use of the term "pushed" makes it sound as if it's a bad thing with a better alternative.

Yes, every component of your personality was "pushed" into you. You can, however, change some of them. And yes, I used the term "pushed" to show I believe it's a bad thing. Welcome to human speech, we have fun and games.

Originally Posted by Kromoh

@Xaq

I don't think you understand the depth of what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the full negation of culture itself, not just anti-americanism, anti-europeanism etc etc. I'm saying that any kind of culture alienates you. I'm saying that most of what you are was pushed into you by culture - and you don't even realize/question it. I'm saying that most of the opinions you consider true, you only do because you were taught them - you didn't come to those conclusions yourself.

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And I'm saying that your attempts at condescension just make you sound short sighted. What you are describing as alienation and control are part of being human. You are largely defined by your environment. Culture is the pervading environment for a social creature. What is it that you think you 'really are' devoid of cultural influences? All you are without culture is an animal obsessed with eating and having sex.

None of the ideas you have are your own either. Everything you know has come from your culture. You act as though you are somehow exempt from the way things work, like you are some enlightened being who sees through all the bullshit. What you don't seem to understand is that to realize that culture is a controlling factor in the lives of individuals does not necessarily lead to the conclusions that you have reached; that all culture should be abandoned. You argue for these things while you are still unable to admit that you are controlled just as strongly as the next guy. You are an active participant in culture. You go to college, you exercise capitalistic behavior, you participate in online discussions that are interactions with other individuals within a cultural framework.

To say that all consensual social interaction, learning and symbol creation (which is the definition of culture) is bad is just an admittance of your own ignorance of the effects your particular culture has on you. You say scatterbrain's enjoyment of culture is part of culture. Your rejection of culture is part of culture. You keep saying that no one else understands the depth of what you are talking about. Perhaps this is because your own understanding of the topic just barely scratches the surface, and even you don't fully understand the depth of the situation. I find it incredibly ironic that the person telling everyone else that they 'don't understand the depth' hasn't even read the article that the thread is about.

Originally Posted by Xaqaria

And I'm saying that your attempts at condescension just make you sound short sighted. What you are describing as alienation and control are part of being human. You are largely defined by your environment. Culture is the pervading environment for a social creature. What is it that you think you 'really are' devoid of cultural influences? All you are without culture is an animal obsessed with eating and having sex.

So many mistakes, argh. You being a product of culture doesn't justify not questioning it. Being alienated is part of being human... accepting to being alienated isn't necessarily.

None of the ideas you have are your own either. Everything you know has come from your culture. You act as though you are somehow exempt from the way things work, like you are some enlightened being who sees through all the bullshit. What you don't seem to understand is that to realize that culture is a controlling factor in the lives of individuals does not necessarily lead to the conclusions that you have reached; that all culture should be abandoned. You argue for these things while you are still unable to admit that you are controlled just as strongly as the next guy. You are an active participant in culture. You go to college, you exercise capitalistic behavior, you participate in online discussions that are interactions with other individuals within a cultural framework.

I'm not saying I'm exempt from how things work - that's why I try to fight them in first place. I'm not saying I'm an enlightened being - you're making a strawman.

What was the last opinion you thought about before making?

I never said I don't admit I'm controlled by culture. I am controlled by culture. Happy? Now, that doesn't mean I shouldn't try not to be controlled by culture. Whatever it is you're criticizing on me, it's not the point I'm making.

To say that all consensual social interaction, learning and symbol creation (which is the definition of culture) is bad is just an admittance of your own ignorance of the effects your particular culture has on you. You say scatterbrain's enjoyment of culture is part of culture. Your rejection of culture is part of culture. You keep saying that no one else understands the depth of what you are talking about. Perhaps this is because your own understanding of the topic just barely scratches the surface, and even you don't fully understand the depth of the situation. I find it incredibly ironic that the person telling everyone else that they 'don't understand the depth' has even read the article that the thread is about.

And your saying that "culture is good" is culture too. See, you accuse me of being partial, you are partial yourself.

Basically, you're saying that it's okay to open your legs wide and let culture rape you, since it is gonna come to you to a certain degree anyway. That point of view is irrational.

Man, when I say you don't understand the depth of my point, I don't mean that you haven't gone deep enough, or that you're incapable of comprehending it. I'm saying you're taking what I'm saying at wrong depths, either too shallow or too deep. I mean, come on, suddenly the discussion about culture became an argument about determinism - which is like trying to cut an apple with a saw.
But of course, you didn't think of that before saying my understanding doesn't "scratch the surface". Which is an ad hominem, you know.

And just FIY, I've heard about the Paradigm Conspiracy before. I didn't just ignore the article.

Originally Posted by Kromoh

So many mistakes, argh. You being a product of culture doesn't justify not questioning it. Being alienated is part of being human... accepting to being alienated isn't necessarily.



I'm not saying I'm exempt from how things work - that's why I try to fight them in first place. I'm not saying I'm an enlightened being - you're making a strawman.

What was the last opinion you thought about before making?

I never said I don't admit I'm controlled by culture. I am controlled by culture. Happy? Now, that doesn't mean I shouldn't try not to be controlled by culture. Whatever it is you're criticizing on me, it's not the point I'm making.



And your saying that "culture is good" is culture too. See, you accuse me of being partial, you are partial yourself.

Basically, you're saying that it's okay to open your legs wide and let culture rape you, since it is gonna come to you to a certain degree anyway. That point of view is irrational.

Man, when I say you don't understand the depth of my point, I don't mean that you haven't gone deep enough, or that you're incapable of comprehending it. I'm saying you're taking what I'm saying at wrong depths, either too shallow or too deep. I mean, come on, suddenly the discussion about culture became an argument about determinism - which is like trying to cut an apple with a saw.
But of course, you didn't think of that before saying my understanding doesn't "scratch the surface". Which is an ad hominem, you know.

And just FIY, I've heard about the Paradigm Conspiracy before. I didn't just ignore the article.

kromoh talking to you is like talking to a brick wall. The irony in your posts is so thick I could cut it with a knife. You accuse me of using a strawman, of 'ad hominem'. I'm just calling it like I see it as you say you have been.

No where did I say that "Culture is good". No where did I say not to question culture. You are constructing everyone else's opinions in your mind and then calling them irrational. Its getting to the point that I have to stop myself from just quoting your own posts back to you in some sort of futile attempt to get you to see what you sound like.

You say you are trying to fight how things work. This is not a strawman, it is almost exactly what you said. What I am saying is that this attitude gets you no where. If you want to be a hermit away from society and culture, then that is fine but you better get packing, and remember; you'll have to walk away from all of this and figure out how to survive on your own from scratch. If you build a shelter, you're controlled by culture. If you clothe yourself, you're controlled by culture. If you try to make tools to hunt for food, you'll just be allowing yourself to be controlled by culture.

Those of us who would like to continue being a part of social interactions will recognize the influences that guide our lives, recognize the effects that society and culture have on us, and figure out a way to work with the way things work instead of against them. Constantly butting up against the flow of the world instead of actively engaging with it and directing it is what leads people to conclusions like "all culture is bad and should be abandoned."

Honestly, I don't want to build a strawman out of you I really don't; but you sound like someone with strict parents who never discovered punk music.

Seriously, I'm not talking about counter-culture, I'm talking about lack of culture. You seem to think I'm talking about music, beliefs, trends etc. No, I'm talking about behaviour. You're an animal that thinks is better than all other animals. You take things for granted. That is your problem. I'm not proposing a cultural change, I'm just saying culture is insanity. The problem with you is being culturalized and still believing you are sane - you are not.

Also, you accusing me of making an ad hominem doesn't mean you never made one.

Also, you defending culture means you are in favour of it, aka, you like it. Stop trying to be neutral and superior and pick a side already.

The fuck if what I'm trying to do will "get me nowhere". "Going somewhere" is a cultural creation. Life has no purpose at all.

"Truly wise is a child", the philosopher says. Perhaps you should analyze the meaning from this new perspective. The child isn't culturalized.

Originally Posted by Kromoh

Seriously, I'm not talking about counter-culture, I'm talking about lack of culture. You seem to think I'm talking about music, beliefs, trends etc. No, I'm talking about behaviour. You're an animal that thinks is better than all other animals. You take things for granted. That is your problem. I'm not proposing a cultural change, I'm just saying culture is insanity. The problem with you is being culturalized and still believing you are sane - you are not.

Also, you accusing me of making an ad hominem doesn't mean you never made one.

Also, you defending culture means you are in favour of it, aka, you like it. Stop trying to be neutral and superior and pick a side already.

The fuck if what I'm trying to do will "get me nowhere". "Going somewhere" is a cultural creation. Life has no purpose at all.

"Truly wise is a child", the philosopher says. Perhaps you should analyze the meaning from this new perspective. The child isn't culturalized.

How the heck can one have "no culture?"

Originally Posted by BLUELINE976

How the heck can one have "no culture?"

One can't. That is not excuse to no questioning culture, though.

Originally Posted by Kromoh

One can't. That is not excuse to no questioning culture, though.

I didn't say it was, but you stated:

Seriously, I'm not talking about counter-culture, I'm talking about lack of culture. You seem to think I'm talking about music, beliefs, trends etc. No, I'm talking about behaviour. You're an animal that thinks is better than all other animals. You take things for granted. That is your problem. I'm not proposing a cultural change, I'm just saying culture is insanity.

Aren't "lack of culture" and "no culture" virtually the same? You also call culture "insanity."

Originally Posted by BLUELINE976

I didn't say it was, but you stated:

Seriously, I'm not talking about counter-culture, I'm talking about lack of culture. You seem to think I'm talking about music, beliefs, trends etc. No, I'm talking about behaviour. You're an animal that thinks is better than all other animals. You take things for granted. That is your problem. I'm not proposing a cultural change, I'm just saying culture is insanity.

Aren't "lack of culture" and "no culture" virtually the same? You also call culture "insanity."

Yes, I meant "lack of culture" and "no culture" as the same things. And yes I also call culture "insanity". Your point being?

Originally Posted by Kromoh

One can't. That is not excuse to no questioning culture, though.

Why are you arguing in generalities? You agree that one can't be human without culture. Why question culture? Don't you mean we should question SPECIFIC cultures and how they operate? Questioning an abstract principle just for the sake of questioning it gets us nowhere. Calling "culture" insanity implies there's a sane alternative to the problem. What is it?

Edit: meant alternative, not solution

It is your culture that makes you think that one should pick a side, indeed that there are even sides at all. I don't waste my time deciding if I think what is is good or bad. What is just is. For my response to the rest of your arguments, please refer to my previous posts.

Originally Posted by OuroborosEterna

Why question culture?

Because it alienates you.

Don't you mean we should question SPECIFIC cultures and how they operate?

No, that would be prejudicial and hypocritical.

Questioning an abstract principle just for the sake of questioning it gets us nowhere.

It's not an abstract principle.
Not questioning things is what "gets us nowhere".

Calling "culture" insanity implies there's a sane alternative to the problem. What is it?

No culture. Aka death, other animals, machines.

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@ Xaq

Don't rationalize again. You know what I meant by "picking a side". If you didn't pick a side, don't argue at all.

So your solution is the eradication of the human race. Nice.