Ecstasy on the Rise...What's your take? :D

[Cyclic13]

Check out the ABC documentary HERE At first, I thought this documentary would've been done with a right-ist slant, but was surprised to see it was actually done from an impartial perspective. Laying out all the myths and facts out clearly, and indisputable. My question is; With all the facts out there on this wonderful drug, WHY is it still considered a class 1 drug by the DEA, up there with cocaine and heroine. I honestly fail to see the need to ban a drug that causes people to enact postitive changes into their life long after they've stopped using it. Not to mention, with all the government propagandized lies surrounding this, and many other drugs, how can anyone take what the government has to say about their anti-drug campaign even the slightest bit seriously? Perfect example; Had I not taken it, I most likely wouldn't have taken the time to understand the music I now love so much and wouldn't have ever been motivated enough to go out and buy my first set of turntables which has now led me down the route of music production and sound engineering. I don't actively use the drug to the level I used to, since it is nearly impossible to find for a decent price in Japan, but still have good memories and experiences with this drug. Ones that I can recall upon and get chills from by simply listening to a good tune. Also, please don't bother commenting unless you've watched the documentary, or at the very least, can separate the actual facts from the government propaganda.

[The Question]

I havnt seen the show, but i rolled for my first time last night it was one of the best experiances iv ever felt and been through, if you havnt ever tried it please dont bash it like crazy!

[Michael]

We cant talk about this..... But I voted the first option. EDIT: I find this strange, because I wathced this video last night.... freaky...

[Cyclic13]

Huh? We can't talk about this? I wasn't aware this was Fight Club...*shrugs* Considering this documentary was broadcast on primetime television I really don't see why we can't talk about it. Just because certain mods don't want lucid dreamers to be cast in the same light as drug users isn't a valid enough reason to ban talk of drugs outright on the forum. Drug use, just like lucid dreaming is about exploring and pushing the boundries of perception. Whether you participate in drug use or not, to sit there and try and hide or deny it being in the same realm as lucid dreaming is just plain ignorant. Especially, considering dreams are actually the byproduct of a highly powerful psychotropic drug (DMT) being released in the pineal gland during REM sleep. Let's see someone try and argue that. hehe.

[Michael]

If we cant talk about drugs that dont have to do with lucid dreaming, why can we talk about this? If this thread doesnt get deleted like all the other drug ones did, That's bullshit. The other ones were better, and didn't have to do with MDMA... much more dangerous than what we were talking about.

[Original Poster]

Actually we CAN talk about drugs, and as the mods continue to delete our threads we will continue to replace them until they realize a forum for lucid dreaming is perfectly suitable for drug discussion. Some of us don't want to go to drug forums where we don't know what kind of people we're talking to. Here we can understand going in most likely the drug users are people in it for exploratory purposes. I doubt if icedawg would ever ban drug discussion in all forms, he may limit it which is acceptable but banning it is... for lack of a better word, completely fucktarded. I haven't done ecstacy, I might do it once, perhaps with someone I'm deeply in love with but I voted that I think the potential harm outweighs the benefits. My mind might change when I try it but it seems dangerous to me at this point and I would just want to use it to bond with someone I already love. Frankly as someone who's done LSD and mushrooms multiple times I'm also very skeptical of the benefits of drugs. It seems like the revelations you come up with are total BS and their truth wears off rapidly after you come down. Ecstacy may be different since it enhances your awareness of life you may be able to notice things you didn't before, just as LSD allows you to see the world from different perspectives than your used to. I don't know, actually LSD did sort of change my life, I guess.

[Placebo]

(Thread unlocked) With much reservation, we're unlocking the thread again so that the discussion about the documentary can go on. However, - I'm removing the poll, as it's likely to drag this thread in the wrong direction - If this thread degenerates into discussions of how cool ecstacy is, etc (which I feel it will) we'll have to stop it Please remember this guideline: "Drugs and drug use may only be discussed in context with dreaming. Discussion involving recipes or encouraging illicit drug use is not permitted."

[Neruo]

Considering this documentary was broadcast on primetime television I really don't see why we can't talk about it. Just because certain mods don't want lucid dreamers to be cast in the same light as drug users isn't a valid enough reason to ban talk of drugs outright on the forum. Drug use, just like lucid dreaming is about exploring and pushing the boundries of perception. Whether you participate in drug use or not, to sit there and try and hide or deny it being in the same realm as lucid dreaming is just plain ignorant. Especially, considering dreams are actually the byproduct of a highly powerful psychotropic drug (DMT) being released in the pineal gland during REM sleep. Let's see someone try and argue that. hehe. Good point. - Never done Ecstasy. Personally, I really don't see why it is mostly used at parties with crappy music. If I would ever do it, I would do it in a peaceful place, with some decent music. Research also show it isn't all that harmful, nor addictive. (That doesn't change the facts that there are idiots that take to much to often.) I'll watch the docu some other day. DAMN YOU BBC, for making so many good/interesting documentaries.

[Michael]

Good point. - Never done Ecstasy. Personally, I really don't see why it is mostly used at parties with crappy music. If I would ever do it, I would do it in a peaceful place, with some decent music. Research also show it isn't all that harmful, nor addictive. (That doesn't change the facts that there are idiots that take to much to often.) I'll watch the docu some other day. DAMN YOU BBC, for making so many good/interesting documentaries. I Those people listening to the techno n rave shit are gay... Whenever I do it I listen to rock/rap... only with occasional techno to go nuts with. Subwoofers fuckin own when your rolling and techno has a gay ass bassline, its so repetitive and boring. Rap has the best bass and rock has some crazy ass bass. it's not that addictive but it will leave you wanting more so It can be if you are stupid. and you could be in a peaceful place or a party.. either way its a blast.

[Seeker]

Actually we CAN talk about drugs, and as the mods continue to delete our threads we will continue to replace them until they realize a forum for lucid dreaming is perfectly suitable for drug discussion. I'm sorry, that will accomplish nothing. Durg=one_thing, LD=something_else. Discussion of the documentary is one thing. When people begin posting about their experiences as has already been done in this thread, then the thread will e locked or deleted. It is my wish along with that of the rest of admin team that drug discussion be taken elsewhere. There are plenty of sites on the internet that welcome that type of discussion. No, I'm not a drug-o-phobe as some have hinted at already. I am however unwilling to accept the potential liability that comes from encouraging drug experimentatiobn and use on a forum that is open to members below the age of 18. All it takes is one parent who's kid gets messed up after following a suggestion found here and we are gone.

[Original Poster]

I'd like to hand it to the admins for being reasonable in this matter though. I understand your opinions and your concerns about this website's reputation and I would not want to hurt this websites reputation but I just think taking a strong stance of censorship against something considered deviant is a bit hypocritical for a site focused on a subject considered by many to be satanic. Obviously we know lucid dreaming is not satanic, but just because we've explored what it is and is not and have looked at the evidence. Substances like ecstacy could be looked at in the same light and while discussion should be relevant to lucid dreaming in the bulk of the forum I don't think that's the correct way to go about moderating Extended Discussion.

[Cyclic13]

About techno/trance music; it really depends on the artist and songs made. If you have ever heard of BT, Chicane, Andy Moor, or many other progressive electronic musicians you would know the construction of their music and beats are hardly repetitive. Just because at times it has a 4/4 beat, a melody which the tune is based around, a restatement of that melody, and reinterpretation of that melody, that actually is following more of classical music theory model. And, nearly all famous electronic musicians are classically trained in some instrument. (BT= Piano, Guitar, Bass, and Vocals; Chicane=Spanish, and Classical Guitar; Andy Moor= Piano) If you still remain in doubt, just click on BT's profile and listen to, 'Remember'. It's a 10 year old track but still doesn't get old. The actual construction of the sounds on electronic music are actually really difficult to make and quite experimental, so they are literally on the front lines of music production. So really, without artists like BT, Chicane, and Andy Moor, certain modern music just wouldn't have had the level of sounds to draw from. Also, in actuality BT contracts out his stutter edit and beat warping techniques to rock musicians and other artists in completely different genres. Just because you haven't had the epiphany to understand the complexity of the realm of electronica don't bash it or act in a biased manner. Unfortunately, all that succeeds in doing is showing your level of ignorance. I know this is kind of off-topic but I take criticism of electronic music seriously. . . . Back on topic, my hope from this topic was to separate the facts from the fiction. Many people think it puts permanent holes in your brain or you can easily die from one dose, when actually more recent studies show the damage is reparable after 2 months of non-use, and another study found the drug attributed itself to only 3 deaths in a 3 year time period in New York City where millions upon millions of pills were consumed. The truth is, more deaths occur from prescription meds, so why is it banned and put so high up on the list of bad drugs? Why penalize people for wanting to feel good? I never understood why the DEA feels it's their prerogative to forcefeed their version of life down other people's throats. Especially when no adverse side effects have been found and plenty of applicable medicinal purposes exist. My objective in presenting this thread wasn't to recruit people into the cult of Ecstasy or Electronic music but to allow them to see the truth surrounding this phenomenon which sprang up in the past 10-20years. I don't want to see this locked so I hope no one here will be trying to directly encourage or discourage it's use...just post your take on this.

[The Question]

Well after watching the documentary I was very impressed! It presents every side, in an unbiased way! I like to be givin the facts. I agree with your entire post solskye, literally the entire thing, people tend to bash elctro-music without even realizing the effort and complexity of the genre and sub genres. Over all AMAZING post really great job!

[Universal Mind]

I have said what I think about both sides of the drug discussion issue, so I will just add that it is unbelievable that the U.S. government is repeating alcohol prohibition except with tons of drugs instead of just one. Alcohol prohibition was such a disaster that a constitutional amendment was repealed by another amendment to end it, but the nightmare is back, and this time it is on steroids. It is the most extreme example of not learning from history I have ever seen. But alcohol is legal now because it's different . Yeah. And tobacco kills 1/3 of its users, 11 thousand Americans per day, but no need for a war on that. Let's go berzerk on ecstasy instead because it kills three people per year because warning labels don't come on illegal market packages. And mushrooms and marijuana, GET 'EM!!!! They kill zero people per... ever. It baffles me out of my mind.

[nerve]

I agree with you completely, Universal Mind. what the fuck is up with that. seriously, what the HEYLL. so, anyways, about how cool ecstasy is. (haha) no really it doesn't matter that it's cool, it's illegal, and lots of cool things are illegal, like gay marriage. my point here is, and before I say anything else, is that it is an illegal drug and no matter how "cool" I or anyone else thinks it is, it's illegal and by saying it's cool I DO NOT mean I recommend going out and trying it. on the contrary I recommend that you don't. okay, now that that's clear. I can't watch the documentary, or I can but I don't currently have speakers so I couldn't hear it. I think ecstasy has potential to be a good drug, but there are conditions. (one is that it's illegal, of course). another is that because it's illegal, it is sold illegitimately and has a higher chance of being laced with something very toxic (I think?), or "watered down" considerably, or not even ecstasy (MDMA) at all but something like caffiene or ephedrine or some other combination of non-MDMA stuff. I think I should be able to relate my experience with it, it is in the past, and just telling people about it doesn't mean I recommend it. I can tell people about a time when I got drunk and drove my car into a ditch, but no one would recommend that would they? (I never did that by the way, it was just for example's sake.) I will actually say right now, before I talk about this experience, that I don't recommend anyone taking it, seriously. (unless it were to become legal, therefore safer). I took it once, and although I would describe this as a positive experience, I STILL DO NOT RECOMMEND TRYING IT. I took one whole pill, and it hit me about 30 minutes later. I mean it HIT me. I was leaning back in a chair, and I sat up (I guess too fast), and suddenly felt like I was going to pass out. this really scared me, because of a traumatic experience I had involving marijuanna, in which I had a serious panic attack after taking about 4 hits and really believed I was going to die. (it was not because of the marijuanna itself, but because I had worked 87 hours that week, on little sleep, little food, lots of coffee. not a good time to take 4 hits of weed. also I do not advise the use of marijuanna either.) anyway, it had been quite awhile since the attack and over time I gradually got better at keeping myself calm if I suspected I was about to have another attack. after a few minutes, when I fully calmed myself, I felt...very open. it felt, in a way, like everything, absolutely everything, was a warm cozy blanket. everything was a wonderous work of art, every sense I focused on was a thousand times clearer. I felt "open" because I could absorb everything with every one of my senses so much better. it also felt like time slowed down. everything seemed a little slower. the first thing I noticed was my own voice, I talked to the two people I was with and I was hyper-aware of my voice. I spoke a lot slower. my sense of touch was incredible, we were all massaging each others hands and feet, which felt absolutely amazing. (and we were all tripping.) in the duration of this whole experience nothing sexual happened, this was a completely non-sexual experience for all of us, but I can totally understand why people take e and fuck, HA. anyway, something I noticed was that my rubbing one of their hands or feet felt just as good as getting a massage myself. usually when you're the one giving the massage, you feel like you're doing work, and the only pleasure in it is knowing that the person you're massaging is getting pleasure from it. NOT THIS TIME. I rubbed their hands and feet for HOURS, and it felt just as good as (if not better than!) getting a massage myself. imagine that. and I talked. A LOT. I talked the entire fucking time. I talked for 6 or 7 hours straight. up until just around the time I took the x, I had never been one to talk. I had just started opening up and talking to people more. I think x makes people more talkative anyway, but since I never talked before that, I think it made me talk double because I was letting it all out. I talked about everything, but the thing I kept wanting to talk about most was my childhood. before, I never felt good about my childhood. I didn't like remembering it. for some reason, it all seemed disgusting to me, I wished it had been totally different. it wasn't bad or anything, it just didn't appeal to me for some reason. but now, it was so beautiful. I could remember so many things, I remember a lot from my childhood anyway, but now each memory was much clearer. and as I talked, if someone brought something else up and we went off topic, I could always come right back to what I was talking about. my memory was hyperactive. I have Grapheme → color synesthesia, the most common form of it, I see a different colour for every letter of the alphabet and every number (except for the letter "O" and the number 0, understandably). I don't SEE the colour, I am just sort of aware of it. so these letters I'm typing now are black, I see them as black, but I'm aware each has it's own colour, and so they sort of "appear" colourful. anyway, while I was tripping, it was a lot clearer, which was very cool. after the 6 or 7 hours, when it mostly wore off, I felt terribly restless. I could NOT sleep. I kept thinking, and I kept rubbing- my own hands mostly. I couldn't stop for a long time. I was still rubbing my hands and other things nervously, off and on, for several days. also a few times in the days that followed I had these nervous attacks, I felt way too open, like I was absorbing every little thing I saw and could not tune anything out. while I regard this as a positive experience (despite the restless days that followed), as it did help me to be more open to people and things, and the sensations involved were intense and wonderful, I do not recommend anyone trying it themselves. it is not safe. it is not legal. it could be laced with something, you never know. just don't do it. I hope that sharing my experience was at least somewhat enlightening as to the effects of ecstasy, even though it was just one experience. if anyone has any questions, please ask, I'd be happy to answer. and God, I hope this does not get deleted, especially since I've clearly spelled out many times that I don't recommend the use of ecstasy or any illegal drug. hey look at this, I found a huge list of slang terms for it and combinations of it with other drugs: http://www.mdma.net/ecstasy-mdma.html

[Michael]

All it takes is one parent who's kid gets messed up after following a suggestion found here and we are gone. They couldn't do anything to this site. Solskye I didnt mean to bash electro-music, It's just not my type of music. I know its difficult to produce and I actually like a lot of it, just occasionaly though. It isnt something I listen to everyday. Mainly when I'm doing stuff that I cant talk about on here heh. I like Dj Tiesto and some baby anne n pendulum... and that "bubbles" german shit is funky in my car. I have like 100 techno cds man. A lot more people die from ecstasy each year than 3... BUT, only 3 in that 3 year period actually died DIRECTLY from it. Hundreds die each year indirectly, mostly from dehydration. My cousin being one of those stats. Also, some ecstasy producers put PMA or MDA in the pillz instead of MDMA. This could cause some problems because the lethal dose is lower in these.PMA takes longer to kick in (1 hour or longer). 4-5 pillz with mdma could be perfectly safe, but with PMA 2 might be fatal. If you're going to do it, know what you're getting. MDMA only takes 15-30mins to kick in. Another thing is, there are so many chemicals put into rolls these days. Some even have acid (candyflip in a pill!), so the user never knows what to expect unless they have a reliable source. One batch had heroin in them from personal experience. some make you laugh, some make you cry (tears of joy), some make you wanna dance, some make you wanna chill, some make you jittery, some make you chew on everything, some are like damn truth serims... ALL of em make you happy.

[nerve]

so, I'd like your personal opinion, if you were in good health, and you were sure to stay hydrated, and you only took ONE pill, your odds should be pretty damn good right?

[Universal Mind]

There were three ecstasy deaths in 1997 and other numbers in the single digits each year of the 90's except 42 in 1999. It looks like the death rate went up at the beginning of this decade. Still, compare it to alcohol and tobacco. http://thedea.org/statistics.html http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6089353/ http://uimc.discoveryhospital.com/ma...isease_smoking

[Michael]

Ya, ecstasy didn't start booming until 2000. I remember exactly when it was becomming popular and the raves started. 2001-2004 were definatly the biggest years for america. The pills were only like 2-5 bucks each. Now they are like 5-10 each unless you buy a lot. But I think it is still becomming more and more popular in Britain and they are like under a dollar there. And to answer your question paperdoll, my guess is you would have a 99% chance of living. Just not 100% because there's always a possibility... Only time I only took 1 pill was my first time. Then it went to 2... then 3... then 4... lol I dont recommend that shit though, the comedown blows so bad... and cuz drugs are bad mmkay lol ever hear bout that guy that tooko 40,000 pills? he is perma-fucked from it and cant even concentrate on anything. They cant even interview him because he cant think straight for long enough.

[Cyclic13]

The documentary explains that the chances of death off of one pill are slim to none. You'd have to treat yourself pretty damn bad in order to let yourself get carried away to the point of death. Considering I've had nothing but utter clarity and control while on Ecstasy, I simply don't understand how people let themselves go that far. Although, I have seen people at clubs dancing and sweating so hard that it didn't seem like they realized the toll they were putting on their bodies. I offered them water and they'd come back and have a lucid moment and end up drinking the entire bottle in a matter of seconds. The only time I personally ran a risk of problems was when I let my guard down and did other harder substances in conjunction with it (smoking crystal meth).

[nerve]

i drank so much water the one time i took it. but i wasn't in a rave or club and wasn't dancing or anything, just sitting and talking with a couple of friends who were also tripping. i talked the entire time though, which i'm sure made my mouth dry. but i didn't have to stop and think "oh, i need to drink some water and stay hydrated" because my mouth kept getting dry and i was naturally thirsty. i probably drank like 15 glasses of water that night.

[Original Poster]

So Im going to go ahead and ask the taboo question. Before anyone gets upset note I did mention I do plan to try it once already, but just once. What kind of setting do you guys recommend for ecstacy? One close friend, or several? A rave or a basement? I know it depends on the person and what you're into. I'm moderately social, I like good raves but find myself stuck in bad ones with heinous girls a lot which makes me think I should try to control the setting a bit more for e, but then I hear you're much more clear headed than any other psychedelic substance so I'm thinking maybe that control isn't even necessary, One thing I kind of thought would be cool is like taking a girl to a theme park on e or something.

[Cyclic13]

They don't mention this in the documentary but I've heard that it shuts off the part of the pituitary gland that has to do with appetite since it was initially engineered as a diet formula, and one of the other things it ends up affecting is what makes you want to go to the bathroom so that you end up retaining water. So I've heard some people have been hospitalized for drinking too much water where they end up reprocessing the water so that it desalinizes the blood. I don't know if that's just another urban myth, but I sure do know that I don't take too many trips to the bathroom while I'm on it even though I know I definitely need to go. I would highly recommend to take it easy on drinking so many liquids, and know your body well enough to know how long you normally process water, then give yourself time to let it out before putting more in. Especially, if you are just sitting around. I would say 15 glasses throughout the night isn't too bad because you were most likely sweating hardcore, anyway. I'd still be aware of your intake, though. As it is, on a daily basis, people don't usually drink enough water. They say, you should have at least 8 glasses of water a day. About your question to setting; If you have any more questions like that please take it up in a PM since we aren't supposed to be encouraging it. Personally, I prefer the private setting at home with optimum music that I control so I don't waste my experience on someone else's taste in music. There are exceptions for certain famous DJ's, and a guarantee from promoters to have a spot in VIP where I have a place to relax. If you aren't familiar with the music that is amplified by it, then I would leave it up to someone you trust who does. It really is a waste to do it without music since it heightens your senses to such an unbelievable degree. And, believe me, I've done it pretty much anywhere imaginable, including, plane flights and while working as a teller at a major bank. Absolutely nothing can compare to the peaking experience brought on from the long build ups and swells found in electronic music (mostly melodic trance). The best thing I can equate it to is hour long full body and mind orgasms to sound.

[ClouD]

Achieving ecstasy through meditation is more powerful than the drug can can achieve, without possible physical side effects.

[1342576]

You're right, but it takes a lot of effort. Given the instant gratification society, I can understand E people.