Thread: Split Marijuana Discussion

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

It's not your call. It's theirs.

Well its to my opinion that those people are making lousy, poorly thought out decisions (probably largely influenced by the addiction) and should not be given that choice. I am all for freedom and self expression. But this is killing them.
I guess with your logic, I should let a suicidal person jump off a 30 story building, because otherwise I might be taking away their freedom.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

You're going to need to explain that. Heart disease is the number one killer in the United States, and I imagine it is a big killer in New Zealand too.

These people are addicted to fatty foods. I know I am right now. But I don't accept it, and I won't let it continue. These people need help to get their diets on track - most of them know that, and most of them want it. And if someone we know suffers from heart disease, its our job as their family to help them eat better and cope with it. Not let them continue eating shit for the purpose of freedom. Because we care about them enough to know ultimately its whats best for them. And surely they know that too.

Originally Posted by Loaf

I am all for freedom and self expression.

WTF? No you're not.

Originally Posted by Loaf

Well its to my opinion that those people are making lousy, poorly thought out decisions (probably largely influenced by the addiction) and should not be given that choice. I am all for freedom and self expression. But this is killing them.
I guess with your logic, I should let a suicidal person jump off a 30 story building, because otherwise I might be taking away their freedom.

Suicide is different because it kills 100% of the people who do it, and people are in a mentally ill state when they do it. The rights I believe in do not all apply to the mentally ill. Practically all suicidal people are glad later that they were physically stopped from committing suicide. Practically all people who are physically stopped from smoking cigarettes or marijuana are always pissed at the person who got what they consider to be nosy and arrogant.

You have no business preventing others from making what are merely bad health risk choices. What if the government started telling you how much you have to exercise every week and how many hours you have to sleep every night? They would be way the Hell out of line, wouldn't they?

Originally Posted by Loaf

These people are addicted to fatty foods. I know I am right now. But I don't accept it, and I won't let it continue. These people need help to get their diets on track - most of them know that, and most of them want it. And if someone we know suffers from heart disease, its our job as their family to help them eat better and cope with it. Not let them continue eating shit for the purpose of freedom. Because we care about them enough to know ultimately its whats best for them. And surely they know that too.

Uh, how is that different from marijuana and tobacco, other than the fact that a high percentage of marijuana smokers are not addicted to marijuana? I asked you for the difference, and you didn't tell me.

Now (Why do I keep having to ask you for this?), tell me how you feel about the legality of recreational driving and alcohol. Is there some important difference with them?

By the way, did you post in the Extended Discussion thread "Should marijuana be legal?" Please post in there. I would love to really get into this with you.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

Now (Why do I keep having to ask you for this?), tell me how you feel about the legality of recreational driving and alcohol. Is there some important difference with them?

Low doses of alcohol are fine. I'm sure low doses of marijuana at first would be okay, except for the fact you'd probably develop an addiction and start to use more than you should. I'm opposed to people getting extremely drunk - personally, I'd hate to not be in control of my actions.

Marijuana being illegal? I wouldn't know. But I can say that seeing people trying to justify its use is terribly annoying. If you really think that serious health problems (ones that are more instant and severe than those caused by drinking, and bad foods) are worth the risk just so you can be off your face, then your priorities are odd.

Originally Posted by Loaf

Low doses of alcohol are fine. I'm sure low doses of marijuana at first would be okay, except for the fact you'd probably develop an addiction and start to use more than you should. I'm opposed to people getting extremely drunk - personally, I'd hate to not be in control of my actions.

Marijuana being illegal? I wouldn't know. But I can say that seeing people trying to justify its use is terribly annoying. If you really think that serious health problems (ones that are more instant and severe than those caused by drinking, and bad foods) are worth the risk just so you can be off your face, then your priorities are odd.

Did you look at my link to alcohol statistics? How can you say the health effects of alcohol are less severe than those caused by marijuana? That is worlds away from the truth. Alcohol kills about 100,000 Americans per year. Do you have any idea how violent a high percentage of people get right after they start drinking? I am talking about on a given night. Have you ever heard of drunk driving wrecks? People die from them in the United States an average of every 30 minutes. They are so common that there is an entire system for dealing with drunk driving in every police department and a special set of laws aimed at it. There are attorneys in every city who make a living just handling DUI cases. Have you ever heard of dying of an alcohol overdose? It happens several times a day. Have you ever heard of death from liver disease? Alcohol causes it. ?Also, alcohol is extremely addictive. Unlike marijuana, it is physically addictive. Have you ever heard of Alcoholics Anonymous? Have you ever heard of alcoholics?

Do you know how many people have ever died of a marijuana overdose in the history of the world? ZERO!!!!!!!! Do you know how violent marijuana makes people? It makes them more passive in the vast majority of cases. Do you know how marijuana affects driving? It makes most people drive slower and more cautiously, though they are spacier. Driving while stoned is not good, but it is miniscule compared to driving while on alcohol, which wrecks coordination and judgment. People who would be screwed up in their driving by marijuana know it. No drunk person ever thinks he is too drunk to drive well. Even a babbling, slobbering, word slurring drunk who can't walk thinks he has enough skill to drive well.

So, what is special about alcohol?


P.S.- We were talking in the "Should marijuana be legal?" thread in Extended Discussion about public attitutudes concerning marijuana, and I think some of your last post speaks volumes about it. I am going to post it in there. You are welcome to show up in there and defend your position. I even request that you do.

Drunk driving is different.

Dammit, the marijuana legalization thread in Extended Discussion got locked.

Originally Posted by Loaf

Drunk driving is different.

It's done with alcohol. Now address the other issues I raised. Your idea that marijuana is more dangerous with alcohol is way off. You are incorrect, as I explained.

Read the heath risks again. You can get hurt. Also, alcohol isNOT adictive if you have a little bit of it. Some wine here and there, will not hurt you. Some whiskey everywhere will hurt you! As for pot, it hurts the people around you through second hand smoke. I have Asthma thanks to smokers! They are careless and not only causing them self harm but the people around them!

Originally Posted by Loaf

Low doses of alcohol are fine. I'm sure low doses of marijuana at first would be okay, except for the fact you'd probably develop an addiction and start to use more than you should.

You've heard of alcoholism, right? It's most common definition is the consumption of alcohol to the point where it is detrimental to one's health, generally fueled by addiction. Just as people can drink in moderation without becoming addicted, people can toke (or eat or vaporize) in moderation without becoming "addicted."

And I put addicted in quotation marks because to my knowledge there isn't conclusive proof that one can develop an addiction to marijuana in the same way that one can develop an addiction to alcohol, cigarettes, heroin, cocaine or other substances.

EDIT: I didn't realize I had only read over the first page

I'm agreeing with UM on this one. Legalizing pot would eliminate so many problems.

Originally Posted by Loaf

Low doses of alcohol are fine. I'm sure low doses of marijuana at first would be okay, except for the fact you'd probably develop an addiction and start to use more than you should. I'm opposed to people getting extremely drunk - personally, I'd hate to not be in control of my actions.

Marijuana being illegal? I wouldn't know. But I can say that seeing people trying to justify its use is terribly annoying. If you really think that serious health problems (ones that are more instant and severe than those caused by drinking, and bad foods) are worth the risk just so you can be off your face, then your priorities are odd.

Stop treating marijuana like it's just another thing to get addicted to, because you clearly don't know what addiction is. There is MENTAL addiction, and PHYSICAL addiction. Video games are an example of mental addiction, and nicotene, cocaine, and alcohol are physically addicting drugs, some faster than others. Marijuana is a fine example of MENTAL addiction, because it is fun and people want to do it strictly because of that.

And 'be off your face' is the most ignorant generalization of being stoned I've ever heard. The only time I'm ever close to 'off my face' is when I'm drunk as hell.

Sony, you have to excuse loaf. He is only 13 years old and he doesn't know. He still buys into the propaganda. He believes the story where the guy blows off his head with a shotgun from being high off weed, or the story about the girl on LSD that put a baby in the oven and tried to cook it as food.

Originally Posted by Loaf

Low doses of alcohol are fine. I'm sure low doses of marijuana at first would be okay, except for the fact you'd probably develop an addiction and start to use more than you should. I'm opposed to people getting extremely drunk - personally, I'd hate to not be in control of my actions.

Marijuana being illegal? I wouldn't know. But I can say that seeing people trying to justify its use is terribly annoying. If you really think that serious health problems (ones that are more instant and severe than those caused by drinking, and bad foods) are worth the risk just so you can be off your face, then your priorities are odd.

Something I missed...
I don't know how others here feel about this; I can only speak for myself.
I do not ever smoke to be "off my face", if you smoke just to get fucked up then you are using it for the wrong reasons. And that's because it's good for so much more! With alchohol the most you're going to do is get hammered. Pot is a mind-opening substance, in many ways.

UM, back me up on this one.

Originally Posted by Supernova

Something I missed...
I don't know how others here feel about this; I can only speak for myself.
I do not ever smoke to be "off my face", if you smoke just to get fucked up then you are using it for the wrong reasons. And that's because it's good for so much more! With alchohol the most you're going to do is get hammered. Pot is a mind-opening substance, in many ways.

UM, back me up on this one.

Dude read my posts above I've backed you to holy hell and back

Originally Posted by Supernova

Something I missed...
I don't know how others here feel about this; I can only speak for myself.
I do not ever smoke to be "off my face", if you smoke just to get fucked up then you are using it for the wrong reasons. And that's because it's good for so much more! With alchohol the most you're going to do is get hammered. Pot is a mind-opening substance, in many ways.

UM, back me up on this one.

Eh, the amount of weed I smoke would leave most people unable to function. The reason I smoke is because I want to. I like the way it makes me feel and I am more comfortable high than not. I'm laid back anyway and it makes me even more so. I like weed's f***ed up feeling alot and I stay that way. I guess I smoke for the "wrong reasons", but f*** it, lol.

Originally Posted by KingYoshi

Eh, the amount of weed I smoke would leave most people unable to function. The reason I smoke is because I want to. I like the way it makes me feel and I am more comfortable high than not. I'm laid back anyway and it makes me even more so. I like weed's f***ed up feeling alot and I stay that way. I guess I smoke for the "wrong reasons", but f*** it, lol.

Haha I feel you there, man. I started smoking it like that, but then I realized the effects were extremely beneficial for me physically and mentally. (Have stomach disorder (gastritis), weed cures %100), so that's why I have my medical license, and the stuff just makes me feel better mentally so I never stopped.

And hey, you're a stoner like me, and you can lucid dream just fine! I wish I had that type of recall.

Ok, I am thinking more of the type of person who will get drunk then smoke some pot just to be "fucked up", and never see past that. Getting high just to get high is fine, I do that often myself, but it does more than just make you feel different, unlike alchohol, that was my point. Things like enhancing creativity or allowing more deep/philosophical thoughts to develop (my personal favorite of it's effects)

Just a misunderstanding. That post was a bit rushed.

Originally Posted by Supernova

Ok, I am thinking more of the type of person who will get drunk then smoke some pot just to be "fucked up", and never see past that. Getting high just to get high is fine, I do that often myself, but it does more than just make you feel different, unlike alchohol, that was my point. Things like enhancing creativity or allowing more deep/philosophical thoughts to develop (my personal favorite of it's effects)

Just a misunderstanding. That post was a bit rushed.

Very true. The creativity and philosophical thought are definately awesome effects. I do my best thinking when I'm high. I will literally smoke and just think for hours at a time (when I'm alone). I also always smoke right before going to bed because it makes my lucid dreams creative and downright crazy (which I love). So many random/crazy things are going on in my dreams (mostly in the background) all the time that I couldn't possibly remember all of it. I do pretty well with recall though (took me alot of practice to get to where I am ). Another cool thing about being a stoner (well kind of cool I guess )...you can create a smoking device out of anything, literally .

Not to mention it is a automatic hangover cure, stress cure, settles the nerves, erases embaressment entirely (I haven't felt embaressed in years...I'm just like "f*** it...what can ya do", lol.

Originally Posted by Supernova

Something I missed...
I don't know how others here feel about this; I can only speak for myself.
I do not ever smoke to be "off my face", if you smoke just to get fucked up then you are using it for the wrong reasons. And that's because it's good for so much more! With alchohol the most you're going to do is get hammered. Pot is a mind-opening substance, in many ways.

UM, back me up on this one.

Ha ha, yep. People don't usually use pot for getting on their faces. They use alcohol and prescription pills for that. Pot is more of a, "Wow, look at that over there. Hey, I have an idea," kind of drug.

I agree as well.

Just heard a great interview on NPR with the head of NORML in California about the two propositions working thewir way through California legislature that would effectively legalize marijuana in California. It was a breif interview, but she made some very good points. I'll post a link as soon as it's up on their website (sometime tomorrow probably).