Split Marijuana Discussion

I have the same opinion about using it, as loaf. I think that drugs are bad for you. I dont believe they should be used in doing something like dreaming.

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Originally Posted by Alexander1656

I have the same opinion about using it, as loaf. I think that drugs are bad for you. I dont believe they should be used in doing something like dreaming.

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Don't generalize marijuana as just another 'drug'. It is unlike any other drug man has ever laid his hands on in the respect that you can use it completely unsynthesized (You're smoking a plant that grows out of the ground itself rather than chemicals mixed in a laboratory). Drugs ARE bad for you, but I do not consider pot a drug, because it is A. Not physically addictive (It's about as addictive as a good video game, there are no actual physical properties in pot that make it in any way physically addictive, meaning it's not like nicotene which actually physically addicts you. Mental addiction can be anything, you can be mentally addicted to masturbation for fuck's sake), and B. It does absolutely nothing to harm you, besides making you unmotivated due to your own actions. Lung cancer and pot are completely unassociated, and it's also been found that cigarette smokers who ALSO smoke weed LIVE LONGER. There are no known deaths as a result of smoking pot, and there is no possible way to overdose. (Maybe possible, but you'd have to smoke about 10 times your body weight).

So please, don't generalize it as just another 'drug' because it is certainly, absolutely, not. The 'gateway drug' argument is valid, but only as a result of pot prohibition. If pot were legal, you wouldn't be buying it from people who also sell other drugs and that's exactly what makes it a gateway drug. Again, there is no property of weed that could ever encourage you to want a better high, or to try a different drug, the only way it could feasibly be a gateway drug is because of the fact that is is illegal. Alcohol could be just as easily considered a gateway drug if it were illegal and you were buying it from people with other actual drugs.

I had the misconception about pot when I was growing up, and so did everyone else. We all thought it was evil shit at one point, it's just a matter of actually trying it for yourself and realizing how simple and awesome weed is. (Kind of like being afraid of an intimidating waterslide as a kid and then finally getting convinced to go on it, and completely disproving previous fears and uncertainty about the slide itself.) Booze is legal, alcohol is far more of a drug than THC (weed) will ever be. It's far, far more harmful to you than any weed will ever be - yet it's legal, smart world right?

Food for thought, please consider my words without dismissing them as misinformation as it is quality valid information, not an opinion.

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Originally Posted by Sony86

Don't generalize marijuana as just another 'drug'. It is unlike any other drug man has ever laid his hands on in the respect that you can use it completely unsynthesized (You're smoking a plant that grows out of the ground itself rather than chemicals mixed in a laboratory). Drugs ARE bad for you, but I do not consider pot a drug, because it is A. Not physically addictive (It's about as addictive as a good video game, there are no actual physical properties in pot that make it in any way physically addictive, meaning it's not like nicotene which actually physically addicts you. Mental addiction can be anything, you can be mentally addicted to masturbation for fuck's sake), and B. It does absolutely nothing to harm you, besides making you unmotivated due to your own actions. Lung cancer and pot are completely unassociated, and it's also been found that cigarette smokers who ALSO smoke weed LIVE LONGER. There are no known deaths as a result of smoking pot, and there is no possible way to overdose. (Maybe possible, but you'd have to smoke about 10 times your body weight).

So please, don't generalize it as just another 'drug' because it is certainly, absolutely, not. The 'gateway drug' argument is valid, but only as a result of pot prohibition. If pot were legal, you wouldn't be buying it from people who also sell other drugs and that's exactly what makes it a gateway drug. Again, there is no property of weed that could ever encourage you to want a better high, or to try a different drug, the only way it could feasibly be a gateway drug is because of the fact that is is illegal. Alcohol could be just as easily considered a gateway drug if it were illegal and you were buying it from people with other actual drugs.

I had the misconception about pot when I was growing up, and so did everyone else. We all thought it was evil shit at one point, it's just a matter of actually trying it for yourself and realizing how simple and awesome weed is. (Kind of like being afraid of an intimidating waterslide as a kid and then finally getting convinced to go on it, and completely disproving previous fears and uncertainty about the slide itself.) Booze is legal, alcohol is far more of a drug than THC (weed) will ever be. It's far, far more harmful to you than any weed will ever be - yet it's legal, smart world right?

Food for thought, please consider my words without dismissing them as misinformation as it is quality valid information, not an opinion.

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Ok, but, Lucid dreaming is something that should be axssesable by everyone. It is not ment to be something assoated with drugs. Also, I really would nver break the law(Besudes downloading a few iligle music

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Originally Posted by Alexander1656

Look I know people who have gotten really sick from pot! Also when your "High" you can hurt your self a lot. I would never try pot. EVER

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Wow, okay? Way to completely ignore everything I said.

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Originally Posted by Alexander1656

Ok, but, Lucid dreaming is something that should be axssesable by everyone. It is not ment to be something assoated with drugs. Also, I really would nver break the law(Besudes downloading a few iligle music

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That's a much more intelligent response and I thank you. I agree with you man, I don't think weed is at all nessesary for lucid dreaming as it should be mastered without any drugs just like life ultimately should. And I do not break the law by smoking weed as I have a legitimate medical marijuana lisensce. :banana:

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Originally Posted by Alexander1656

I have the same opinion about using it, as loaf. I think that drugs are bad for you. I dont believe they should be used in doing something like dreaming.

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Drugs are bad for you, Cannabis is not a drug! That is propaganda taught to you by closed minded individuals with their own agendas at hand. If you took anytime to do research you would find out how much Cannabis helps people and how new studies have been released showing the effects of Cannabis are pretty much the opposite of what you have been told from anyone who has a negative outlook on it.

Please do some research on your own time and look into what Cannabis has to offer people and I think you will be surprised at what you find!

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Originally Posted by shooshtime

Drugs are bad for you, Cannabis is not a drug! That is propaganda taught to you by closed minded individuals with their own agendas at hand. If you took anytime to do research you would find out how much Cannabis helps people and how new studies have been released showing the effects of Cannabis are pretty much the opposite of what you have been told from anyone who has a negative outlook on it.

Please do some research on your own time and look into what Cannabis has to offer people and I think you will be surprised at what you find!

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Thank you.

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Originally Posted by Sony86

Don't generalize marijuana as just another 'drug'. It is unlike any other drug man has ever laid his hands on in the respect that you can use it completely unsynthesized (You're smoking a plant that grows out of the ground itself rather than chemicals mixed in a laboratory). Drugs ARE bad for you, but I do not consider pot a drug, because it is A. Not physically addictive (It's about as addictive as a good video game, there are no actual physical properties in pot that make it in any way physically addictive, meaning it's not like nicotene which actually physically addicts you. Mental addiction can be anything, you can be mentally addicted to masturbation for fuck's sake), and B. It does absolutely nothing to harm you, besides making you unmotivated due to your own actions. Lung cancer and pot are completely unassociated, and it's also been found that cigarette smokers who ALSO smoke weed LIVE LONGER. There are no known deaths as a result of smoking pot, and there is no possible way to overdose. (Maybe possible, but you'd have to smoke about 10 times your body weight).

So please, don't generalize it as just another 'drug' because it is certainly, absolutely, not. The 'gateway drug' argument is valid, but only as a result of pot prohibition. If pot were legal, you wouldn't be buying it from people who also sell other drugs and that's exactly what makes it a gateway drug. Again, there is no property of weed that could ever encourage you to want a better high, or to try a different drug, the only way it could feasibly be a gateway drug is because of the fact that is is illegal. Alcohol could be just as easily considered a gateway drug if it were illegal and you were buying it from people with other actual drugs.

I had the misconception about pot when I was growing up, and so did everyone else. We all thought it was evil shit at one point, it's just a matter of actually trying it for yourself and realizing how simple and awesome weed is. (Kind of like being afraid of an intimidating waterslide as a kid and then finally getting convinced to go on it, and completely disproving previous fears and uncertainty about the slide itself.) Booze is legal, alcohol is far more of a drug than THC (weed) will ever be. It's far, far more harmful to you than any weed will ever be - yet it's legal, smart world right?

Food for thought, please consider my words without dismissing them as misinformation as it is quality valid information, not an opinion.

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Originally Posted by Sony86

Wow, okay? Way to completely ignore everything I said.

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That's how i used to look at pot.. like something bad. then i gave it a try..& my whole life made sense..

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Originally Posted by inthemirror92

That's how i used to look at pot.. like something bad. then i gave it a try..& my whole life made sense..

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Exactly. Like epiphany city once you try it for the first time.

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Originally Posted by shooshtime

Drugs are bad for you, Cannabis is not a drug! That is propaganda taught to you by closed minded individuals with their own agendas at hand.

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We aren't closed minded. How dare you.
It doesn't matter how you dress it up. You are inhaling smoke. Thats not healthy.

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Originally Posted by Loaf

We aren't closed minded. How dare you.
It doesn't matter how you dress it up. You are inhaling smoke. Thats not healthy.

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Who said I inhale smoke? Maybe you shouldn't assume things you aren't privy to? You basically just proved my point to about being closed minded, the first thing you assumed is I inhale smoke. If you knew more about cannabis you would know there are safe and healthy ways to use it!

Smoking is the most common way of use though. It wouldn't surprise me if you have had a puff before. Me assuming you inhale it doesn't make me closed
minded.

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Drugs are bad for you, Cannabis is not a drug!

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It's a mind altering substance, a chemical that affects the nervous system, and is therefore a drug. There's also nothing wrong with that, though it likely won't help you in dream recall.

Although, by that definition, someone really ought to launch an investigation into Fruitopia.

New topic: The Effects of Fruitopia on Lucid Dreams.
Subtopic: But Wouldn't That Require Sleep?

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Originally Posted by Loaf

Smoking is the most common way of use though. It wouldn't surprise me if you have had a puff before. Me assuming you inhale it doesn't make me closed
minded.

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First of all, he didn't call you closed-minded, you automatically assumed he did, he was calling the people who create anti-marijuana propaganda for the betterment of their businesses closed-minded - and they are.

You can use marijuana in a variety of ways, you can bake it and cook it in to any food (deliciously, I might add) and you can smoke it using a vaporizer which allows you to inhale vapor instead of smoke (which means you do not ingest and sort of tar or any other smoke substance, it's as healthy as inhaling water vapor - therfore making smoking completely %100 healthy. :banana:)

Iligle drugs are iligel for a reason
(Sorry for my bad spelling!)

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That is propaganda taught to you by closed minded individuals with their own agendas at hand.

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We are saying it is bad. We are teaching it. Therefore he is calling us closed minded.
BTW:
Propaganda is simply ways of spreading information. Sadly the only times we talk about it is when it is missused.
Advertisements, the News (It stands for North south east and west, because it comes from all over the world. It is not the plural of new.), flyers ect. are propaganda.

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Originally Posted by Alexander1656

Iligle drugs are iligel for a reason

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Do you assume that none of those reasons are corrupt? Please explain why marijuana is illegal while alcohol is legal.

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Originally Posted by Universal Mind

Do you assume that none of those reasons are corrupt? Please explain why marijuana is illegal while alcohol is legal.

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http://alcoholism.about.com/od/pot/a/effects.-Lya.htm

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Originally Posted by Alexander1656

http://alcoholism.about.com/od/pot/a/effects.-Lya.htm

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First of all, I am asking for your response, not somebody else's report. Were you trying to indirectly say that marijuana should be illegal because it poses certain health problems if done too much? With that reasoning, think of all of the things we need to ban, things much worse for health than marijuana. One of those things would be alcohol, which brings up the part of my challenge you neglected. Considering the name of the web site you used, how exactly did you miss the rest of my challenge?

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Originally Posted by Universal Mind

Do you assume that none of those reasons are corrupt? Please explain why marijuana is illegal while alcohol is legal.

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We could of course talk about tobacco (11,000 deaths per day), high fat foods (one of the top killers there is), and recreational driving (Driving/riding in automobiles is another one of the grand champions of human death.), but we can stick to alcohol for now. How many people have died because of alcohol today?

http://www.gdcada.org/statistics/alcohol.htm

Now please finish the explanation I asked you for. Thanks.

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Originally Posted by Universal Mind

First of all, I am asking for your response, not somebody else's report.

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Oh, so perfectly good information is now invalid because someone else wrote it? Pfft.

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We could of course talk about tobacco (11,000 deaths per day)

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By all means do, New Zealand is considering banning cigarettes. I hope they go through with it.

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Originally Posted by Loaf

Oh, so perfectly good information is now invalid because someone else wrote it? Pfft.

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Do you honestly think that was my point? Do you really think I was saying the information is invalid? Pffft. :roll: As I suggested, the fact that something can cause health problems for the user is not a legitimate basis for making or keeping it illegal. Therefore, just posting a link to health statistics concerning marijuana did not answer my question. Understand?

Since you are in this and you thanked Alexander for his last post, I challenge you to address the issues I raised. Let's see what you can tell us about them.

Edit: You just added your expression of lack of respect for personal freedom when it comes to tobacco, so how about the other issues I raised?

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Originally Posted by Universal Mind

Edit: You just added your expression of lack of respect for personal freedom when it comes to tobacco, so how about the other issues I raised?

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Its not about lack of freedom, its about breaking the chain now so future generations aren't exposed to harm. If you take away cigarettes now, nobody will care about it once all the past users have passed away. Why should I have to inhale second hand smoke just because some bozo can't kick his useless addiction. I for one won't stand and watch perfectly good human beings die, just so they can get a "buzz".

You can't compare eating fatty foods to smoking marijuana. Thats like comparing taking a bicycle ride to taking a train.

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Originally Posted by Loaf

Its not about lack of freedom, its about breaking the chain now so future generations aren't exposed to harm. If you take away cigarettes now, nobody will care about it once all the past users have passed away. Why should I have to inhale second hand smoke just because some bozo can't kick his useless addiction. I for one won't stand and watch perfectly good human beings die, just so they can get a "buzz".

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It's not your call. It's theirs. Who are you to tell people how well they should be required to take care of their own bodies? Whether or not smoking is allowed in a particular facility should be up to the facility owner, not the government. If you don't like second hand smoke, stay out of the facilities where it exists.

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Originally Posted by Loaf

You can't compare eating fatty foods to smoking marijuana. Thats like comparing taking a bicycle ride to taking a train.

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You're going to need to explain that. Heart disease is the number one killer in the United States, and I imagine it is a big killer in New Zealand too. How many people does marijuana kill per year?

I raised other issues, including recreational driving and alcohol. Where do you stand on those?

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Originally Posted by Universal Mind

It's not your call. It's theirs.

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Well its to my opinion that those people are making lousy, poorly thought out decisions (probably largely influenced by the addiction) and should not be given that choice. I am all for freedom and self expression. But this is killing them.
I guess with your logic, I should let a suicidal person jump off a 30 story building, because otherwise I might be taking away their freedom.

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Originally Posted by Universal Mind

You're going to need to explain that. Heart disease is the number one killer in the United States, and I imagine it is a big killer in New Zealand too.

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These people are addicted to fatty foods. I know I am right now. But I don't accept it, and I won't let it continue. These people need help to get their diets on track - most of them know that, and most of them want it. And if someone we know suffers from heart disease, its our job as their family to help them eat better and cope with it. Not let them continue eating shit for the purpose of freedom. Because we care about them enough to know ultimately its whats best for them. And surely they know that too.

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Originally Posted by Loaf

I am all for freedom and self expression.

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WTF? No you're not. :?

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Originally Posted by Loaf

Well its to my opinion that those people are making lousy, poorly thought out decisions (probably largely influenced by the addiction) and should not be given that choice. I am all for freedom and self expression. But this is killing them.
I guess with your logic, I should let a suicidal person jump off a 30 story building, because otherwise I might be taking away their freedom.

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Suicide is different because it kills 100% of the people who do it, and people are in a mentally ill state when they do it. The rights I believe in do not all apply to the mentally ill. Practically all suicidal people are glad later that they were physically stopped from committing suicide. Practically all people who are physically stopped from smoking cigarettes or marijuana are always pissed at the person who got what they consider to be nosy and arrogant.

You have no business preventing others from making what are merely bad health risk choices. What if the government started telling you how much you have to exercise every week and how many hours you have to sleep every night? They would be way the Hell out of line, wouldn't they?

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Originally Posted by Loaf

These people are addicted to fatty foods. I know I am right now. But I don't accept it, and I won't let it continue. These people need help to get their diets on track - most of them know that, and most of them want it. And if someone we know suffers from heart disease, its our job as their family to help them eat better and cope with it. Not let them continue eating shit for the purpose of freedom. Because we care about them enough to know ultimately its whats best for them. And surely they know that too.

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Uh, how is that different from marijuana and tobacco, other than the fact that a high percentage of marijuana smokers are not addicted to marijuana? I asked you for the difference, and you didn't tell me.

Now (Why do I keep having to ask you for this?), tell me how you feel about the legality of recreational driving and alcohol. Is there some important difference with them?

By the way, did you post in the Extended Discussion thread "Should marijuana be legal?" Please post in there. I would love to really get into this with you.

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Originally Posted by Universal Mind

Now (Why do I keep having to ask you for this?), tell me how you feel about the legality of recreational driving and alcohol. Is there some important difference with them?

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Low doses of alcohol are fine. I'm sure low doses of marijuana at first would be okay, except for the fact you'd probably develop an addiction and start to use more than you should. I'm opposed to people getting extremely drunk - personally, I'd hate to not be in control of my actions.

Marijuana being illegal? I wouldn't know. But I can say that seeing people trying to justify its use is terribly annoying. If you really think that serious health problems (ones that are more instant and severe than those caused by drinking, and bad foods) are worth the risk just so you can be off your face, then your priorities are odd.

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Originally Posted by Loaf

Low doses of alcohol are fine. I'm sure low doses of marijuana at first would be okay, except for the fact you'd probably develop an addiction and start to use more than you should. I'm opposed to people getting extremely drunk - personally, I'd hate to not be in control of my actions.

Marijuana being illegal? I wouldn't know. But I can say that seeing people trying to justify its use is terribly annoying. If you really think that serious health problems (ones that are more instant and severe than those caused by drinking, and bad foods) are worth the risk just so you can be off your face, then your priorities are odd.

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Did you look at my link to alcohol statistics? How can you say the health effects of alcohol are less severe than those caused by marijuana? That is worlds away from the truth. Alcohol kills about 100,000 Americans per year. Do you have any idea how violent a high percentage of people get right after they start drinking? I am talking about on a given night. Have you ever heard of drunk driving wrecks? People die from them in the United States an average of every 30 minutes. They are so common that there is an entire system for dealing with drunk driving in every police department and a special set of laws aimed at it. There are attorneys in every city who make a living just handling DUI cases. Have you ever heard of dying of an alcohol overdose? It happens several times a day. Have you ever heard of death from liver disease? Alcohol causes it. ?Also, alcohol is extremely addictive. Unlike marijuana, it is physically addictive. Have you ever heard of Alcoholics Anonymous? Have you ever heard of alcoholics?

Do you know how many people have ever died of a marijuana overdose in the history of the world? ZERO!!!!!!!! Do you know how violent marijuana makes people? It makes them more passive in the vast majority of cases. Do you know how marijuana affects driving? It makes most people drive slower and more cautiously, though they are spacier. Driving while stoned is not good, but it is miniscule compared to driving while on alcohol, which wrecks coordination and judgment. People who would be screwed up in their driving by marijuana know it. No drunk person ever thinks he is too drunk to drive well. Even a babbling, slobbering, word slurring drunk who can't walk thinks he has enough skill to drive well.

So, what is special about alcohol?


P.S.- We were talking in the "Should marijuana be legal?" thread in Extended Discussion about public attitutudes concerning marijuana, and I think some of your last post speaks volumes about it. I am going to post it in there. You are welcome to show up in there and defend your position. I even request that you do.

Drunk driving is different.

Dammit, the marijuana legalization thread in Extended Discussion got locked.

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Originally Posted by Loaf

Drunk driving is different.

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It's done with alcohol. Now address the other issues I raised. Your idea that marijuana is more dangerous with alcohol is way off. You are incorrect, as I explained.

Read the heath risks again. You can get hurt. Also, alcohol isNOT adictive if you have a little bit of it. Some wine here and there, will not hurt you. Some whiskey everywhere will hurt you! As for pot, it hurts the people around you through second hand smoke. I have Asthma thanks to smokers! They are careless and not only causing them self harm but the people around them!

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Originally Posted by Alexander1656

Read the heath risks again. You can get hurt. Also, alcohol isNOT adictive if you have a little bit of it. Some wine here and there, will not hurt you. Some whiskey everywhere will hurt you! As for pot, it hurts the people around you through second hand smoke. I have Asthma thanks to smokers! They are careless and not only causing them self harm but the people around them!

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Eh...the levels of addiction really depends on the user. I drank like a fish in college, but never became addicted (I'm talk'n smashed 4 or 5+ nights a week for a few semesters). Its the same for your asthma as well. Second hand smoke is not going to cause asthma for someone unless they are already prone to developing it. I've been inhaling second hand smoke, purposely, for years (with hot boxing/clam baking :D).

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Originally Posted by KingYoshi

Eh...the levels of addiction really depends on the user. I drank like a fish in college, but never became addicted (I'm talk'n smashed 4 or 5+ nights a week for a few semesters). Its the same for your asthma as well. Second hand smoke is not going to cause asthma for someone unless they are already prone to developing it. I've been inhaling second hand smoke, purposely, for years (with hot boxing/clam baking :D).

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Furthermore, unless you sit on your fucking couch smoking a joint with people who don't smoke around, secondhand smoke won't be a problem.

And Loaf...I find people finding excuses to get drunk all the time annoying.

It's just a fact that alchohol is more dangerous than marijuana.

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Originally Posted by Supernova

Furthermore, unless you sit on your fucking couch smoking a joint with people who don't smoke around, secondhand smoke won't be a problem.

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I have to wait at the bus stop, I get choked with smoke. Once there was some guy smokin' a joint.

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And Loaf...I find people finding excuses to get drunk all the time annoying.

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Me too. ;)

In my experience with this type of arguement, it all boils down to the reputation marijuana has. It has a much more negative rep than alcohol purely because it is illegal. If marijuana was legal in the first place people would view it no different than alcohol. There is no doubt that alcohol is more dangerous to your overall health. Obviously, weed is more damaging to your lungs, but alcohol (especially hard liquor) effects many more areas of the body (over time) than most people like to accept. I'm not knocking drinking btw, I still party and down more alcohol than one should :P. You only live once (unless you believe in multiple lives, but then f*** it you got other lives to play the conservative card)....a little corny humor to lighten the mood eh? :P

Simply put, I hate smoking altogether. Even if it was perfectly healthy, I'd still bitch about it.

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Originally Posted by Loaf

Once there was some guy smokin' a joint.

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Should've bummed a hit and taken a good one, not a pansy hit. Then you would have been like, "What was I mad/aggrevated/disgusted about again...oh yeah now I remember. Eh, f*** it, give me one more hit of that!"

Well, it was some hobo guy. I didn't want to be around him so I left rather quickly.

In San Fransisco smoking is EVERYWHERE! It is soo annoying!

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Originally Posted by Alexander1656

Read the heath risks again. You can get hurt. Also, alcohol isNOT adictive if you have a little bit of it. Some wine here and there, will not hurt you. Some whiskey everywhere will hurt you! As for pot, it hurts the people around you through second hand smoke. I have Asthma thanks to smokers! They are careless and not only causing them self harm but the people around them!

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If Aunt Martha had balls, she would be Uncle Fred. What is your point??? People in mass numbers abuse the ever living Hell out of alcohol. That is a fact. It makes your "if" worthless. Did you read the statistics? It kills about 100,000 Americans per year. People die in drunk driving wrecks every 30 minutes in the U.S. People die of alcohol overdoses very often. Alcohol commonly makes people violent. Two of my friends committed suicide when they were drunk. If that's not dangerous enough for you, then marijuana doesn't come close. None of those statistics apply to pot. So what if drinking in moderation is not a problem? The point is that zillions of people abuse alcohol. Smoking pot in moderation is not a problem. You say that people could start getting addicted. Well, the same applies to alcohol. And you are not required to hang out with pot smokers. That's up to you. It should NOT be up to the government. The second hand smoke with pot is not going to do jack to you any way unless you are all in a closet or a car or something. Whether or not you are in that situation is up to you and should be.

Okay, so what have we established:

- marijuana kills you
- alcohol kills you
- fatty foods (with overeating) kills you

Great, so we can all agree marijuana is bad, legal or otherwise.

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Originally Posted by Loaf

Okay, so what have we established:

- marijuana kills you

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We have? Can you give me some statistics on that?

What I have established is the disgusting inconsistency in U.S. food and drug laws.

Smoking kills. You can say that there are other ways to use it, but thats the same as me saying I can drink alcohol in different ways to make it unharmful.

Please try to stay on-topic guys. If you want to continue, we can split the thread and you can take it to ED. :P

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Originally Posted by Naiya

Please try to stay on-topic guys. If you want to continue, we can split the thread and you can take it to ED. :P

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If you would split it and take it to ED, that would be great and I'm sure a lot of us would appreciate it. The last one of these in ED got locked because people started talking about ways to get stoned instead of whether pot should be legal. If that can be avoided, it should work well.

Will do. It'll be interesting trying to chop up this thread. Give me a few. :chuckle:

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Originally Posted by Loaf

Okay, so what have we established:

- marijuana kills you
- alcohol kills you
- fatty foods (with overeating) kills you

Great, so we can all agree marijuana is bad, legal or otherwise.

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Hate to get dragged into this but, uh...how exactly does marijuana kill you?

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Originally Posted by mixism

It's a mind altering substance, a chemical that affects the nervous system, and is therefore a drug. There's also nothing wrong with that, though it likely won't help you in dream recall.

[/SIZE]

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Coffee affects the nervous system. Someone that yells at you and has you scared affects your nervous system...ffs....Coffee is a drug.

And Weed DOES help with lucid dreaming. It makes you more aware and it can pull you straight into a WILD provided you retain awareness. The reason that you think marijuana kills your recall is because your unaware in waking life anyway...so weed is only going to amplify that.

The OP sounds like he is 15 years old. Drugs are bad mmkay.

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Okay, so what have we established:

- marijuana kills you

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ok, this is retarded..who do YOU know that died from weed smoke alone. You also sound like your 15 years old.

Thanks, Naiya.

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Originally Posted by Loaf

Smoking kills. You can say that there are other ways to use it, but thats the same as me saying I can drink alcohol in different ways to make it unharmful.

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The amount of marijuana it would take to kill somebody is way more than just about anybody smokes. A person can get stoned with 2 to 4 good puffs of marijuana, and a person stays stoned 1 to 3 hours from smoking it. Can you name some people who have died from that?

You can also put marijuana in cookies and brownies and eat them, as a lot of people do. That is not smoking. What are the ways of drinking alcohol that make it safer?

Statistics from a study from 2000:

http://www.drugwarfacts.org/cms/?q=node/30

not only that universal mind, but even smoking that amount won't kill you, because you will pass out way before then.

Chomsky on some interesting background infos:

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Originally Posted by Loaf

Smoking kills. You can say that there are other ways to use it, but thats the same as me saying I can drink alcohol in different ways to make it unharmful.

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Indeed, smoking is bad for your health, but compare the amount that a marijuana user smokes to the amount that a tobacco user smokes. I know people who smoke something that amounts to more than 50 cigarettes a week. As far as I know, marijuana users typically smoke less than one joint a day, and they do it at home or at a friend's place.

Sure, somebody might smoke something next to you on the street and expose you to second hand smoke, but the reality is, that the exhaust that is constantly pumped out by the cars driving by you, is probably more dangerous to you than that second hand smoke is.

Additionally, my understanding is that marijuana smoke has less dangerous materials in it than typical tobacco smoke.


Around 4 years ago, I joined this forum and I also fought against all the people who wanted to legalize marijuana, because I thought it was dangerous, I thought it was addictive, but after educating myself a little, I realised that there's no truth to all that. I'm not a user myself, I've never tried it, but I really do not see any logical reason as to why marijuana is illegal, when alcohol is not. On top of that, as Universal Mind said, it's up to people them selves to make decisions about what they consume, aslong as what they consume isn't something that can easily kill them, like cocaine and heroin.

I forsee that marijuana will be legalized in most of Scandinavia by the end of this decade.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Loaf

Low doses of alcohol are fine. I'm sure low doses of marijuana at first would be okay, except for the fact you'd probably develop an addiction and start to use more than you should.

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You've heard of alcoholism, right? It's most common definition is the consumption of alcohol to the point where it is detrimental to one's health, generally fueled by addiction. Just as people can drink in moderation without becoming addicted, people can toke (or eat or vaporize) in moderation without becoming "addicted."

And I put addicted in quotation marks because to my knowledge there isn't conclusive proof that one can develop an addiction to marijuana in the same way that one can develop an addiction to alcohol, cigarettes, heroin, cocaine or other substances.

EDIT: I didn't realize I had only read over the first page :(

I'm agreeing with UM on this one. Legalizing pot would eliminate so many problems.

I'm adding to Chomsky's class-based argument for illegal cannabis.

Prohibition is extremely racist, moreso than it seems obvious. The New Jim Crow: How the War on Drugs Gave Birth to a Permanent American Undercaste gives us a better picture of exactly how racist the system is. I'm posting an editorial taken from NORML that summarizes it.

Spoiler for The New Jim Crow:--- NORML Comment:

I work this issue every day and am well aware of the racist nature of the War on (Certain American Citizens Using Non-Pharmaceutical, Non-Alcoholic, Tobacco-Free) Drugs. But even I wasn’t aware of the outrageous statistics comparing the Drug War to Jim Crow era. Michelle Alexander lays it all out in her new book, The New Jim Crow: How the War on Drugs Gave Birth to a Permanent American Undercaste:

There are more African Americans under correctional control today — in prison or jail, on probation or parole — than were enslaved in 1850, a decade before the Civil War began.
As of 2004, more African American men were disenfranchised (due to felon disenfranchisement laws) than in 1870, the year the Fifteenth Amendment was ratified, prohibiting laws that explicitly deny the right to vote on the basis of race.
A black child born today is less likely to be raised by both parents than a black child born during slavery. The recent disintegration of the African American family is due in large part to the mass imprisonment of black fathers.
If you take into account prisoners, a large majority of African American men in some urban areas have been labeled felons for life. (In the Chicago area, the figure is nearly 80%.) These men are part of a growing undercaste — not class, caste — permanently relegated, by law, to a second-class status. They can be denied the right to vote, automatically excluded from juries, and legally discriminated against in employment, housing, access to education, and public benefits, much as their grandparents and great-grandparents were during the Jim Crow era.
The uncomfortable truth, however, is that crime rates do not explain the sudden and dramatic mass incarceration of African Americans during the past 30 years. Crime rates have fluctuated over the last few decades — they are currently are at historical lows — but imprisonment rates have consistently soared. Quintupled, in fact. And the vast majority of that increase is due to the War on Drugs. Drug offenses alone account for about two-thirds of the increase in the federal inmate population, and more than half of the increase in the state prison population.

The drug war has been brutal — complete with SWAT teams, tanks, bazookas, grenade launchers, and sweeps of entire neighborhoods — but those who live in white communities have little clue to the devastation wrought. This war has been waged almost exclusively in poor communities of color, even though studies consistently show that people of all colors use and sell illegal drugs at remarkably similar rates. In fact, some studies indicate that white youth are significantly more likely to engage in illegal drug dealing than black youth. Any notion that drug use among African Americans is more severe or dangerous is belied by the data. White youth, for example, have about three times the number of drug-related visits to the emergency room as their African American counterparts.

That is not what you would guess, though, when entering our nation’s prisons and jails, overflowing as they are with black and brown drug offenders. In some states, African Americans comprise 80%-90% of all drug offenders sent to prison.

The only thing more shocking to me than the new Jim Crow of the drug war is how few African-Americans are involved in ending it.

The board of the National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws (NORML) is composed of 14 white men, 1 white woman, and 1 Latina (Full disclosure: this board is my employer)
Marijuana Policy Project (MPP) has no African-Americans or Latinos on their board as far as I’m aware (MPP does not publish this information on their website, as far as I can tell)
Drug Policy Alliance (DPA) boasts three African-American men on their board of directors
Americans for Safe Access (to medical marijuana, or ASA) has no African-Americans or Latinos on their board
Law Enforcement Against Prohibition (LEAP) has one African-American on their board

Medical Marijuana march in Madison, Wisconsin (I know Madison, Seattle, and Albuquerque aren't exactly Atlanta, Detroit, and Chicago, but there has to be SOME black people there, right?)
This sort of racial homogeneity is also found at the grassroots activist level as well. I coordinate NORML’s 95 active state, local, and college chapters and off the top of my head I can think of only one chapter not run by a white person (Oregon NORML’s Madeline Martinez, who, coincidentally, is that sole Latina on the National NORML Board).

When I speak at conferences and festivals to crowds ranging from 50 to 50,000, it is always a nearly unbroken sea of white faces looking back at me. When I participate in the marches and protests against the drug war, I rarely see black or Latino people carrying a sign.


My view from the stage before speaking at last year's Seattle Hempfest, the largest marijuana reform rally in the world.
The War on Drugs is primarily a War on Marijuana, which makes up 49.8% of all drug war arrests, 89% of those arrests for simple possession. In New York City, a black man is nine times more likely to be busted for pot than a white man and three times more likely to get a custodial sentence out of that arrest. Yet when we look at the cannabis community, the only place we find many African-American faces is in rap videos extolling the virtues of “the chronic”.

Where is the Martin Luther King Jr. of the movement to end the War on Drugs? Why is he or she not responding to the efforts to end the single greatest cause of racial inequality in this nation?

Is he or she dissuaded by the culture of the black church, which demonizes drugs and drug use to the point where those who support sensible drug policies are shamed into silence?


Drug Policy Alliance's Int'l Reform Conference in Albuquerque, 2009
Is he or she turned away by looking at the leadership of drug law reform and seeing no faces like theirs?

Is he or she already feeling like they wear a target for law enforcement on their back already based on skin color and don’t feel like exacerbating that by publicly standing for drug law reform?

Whatever it is, this white man who’s used cannabis for twenty years and never once had an interaction with police is urgently calling out to my black and Latino brothers and sisters to get involved with your own liberation!

Basically, statistics show that today's drug prohibition imprisons more African Americans than the so-called "Jim Crow" era, when racism was institutionalized in law.

Prohibition has also been considered a war against youth for the fact that almost three quarters of drug arrests are for those under age 30.

Spoiler for Why Students Hold The Key To Ending Marijuana Prohibition:

The following speech was given by NORML’s Deputy Director before nearly 500 attendees on Saturday, March 13, at the opening plenary of Students for Sensible Drug Policy’s 11th International Conference, at the Fort Mason Center in San Francisco. To read full coverage of the conference, please see DRCNet’s report here.

My name is Paul Armentano and I’m the Deputy Director of NORML, the National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws, and I’m the co-author of the book Marijuana Is Safer: So Why Are We Driving People to Drink? Max, Amber, Stacia and the many good folks at SSDP invited me to come here today to talk to you about how and why students have a vital role to play in ending marijuana prohibition.

First let’s talk about the “why”: self-preservation. The federal government has declared war on you.

Since 1965 law enforcement in this country have arrested over 20 million people for marijuana offenses. But when you take a closer look at who is actually arrested you find that, for the most part, it isn’t the folks sitting on this panel; it’s all of you sitting out there – it’s young people.

In short – the so-called ‘war’ on marijuana is really a war on youth.

According to a 2005 study commissioned by the NORML Foundation, 74 percent of the 800,000 or so Americans busted for pot each year are under age 30, and one out of four are age 18 or younger. That’s nearly half a million young people at risk of losing their school loans, or being saddled with a lifelong criminal record at a time when they are just entering the workforce. We’re talking about an entire generation – and that’s you out there – that has been alienated to believe that the police and their civic leaders are instruments of their oppression rather than their protection.

And the sad fact is: you’re right!

The question is: What are you going to do about it?

If we’re going to finally end this 70+ year failed public policy known as marijuana prohibition, then we need students to play a lead role. Obviously those of you in this room have already taken a critical first step in leading this charge by joining SSDP and attending this conference. But there’s a lot more to be done and there’s a lot more that you can do.

I believe that it was Ghandi who demanded that those who are oppressed be a part of there own liberation, and marijuana prohibition is no different. I want you to look around you because it’s you all who will ultimately bring about an end to prohibition.

And here’s how you start, and it’s really, really simple suggestion. Start talking to others about the need to end marijuana prohibition. Start talking about how this policy disproportionately and adversely impacts youth. Start discussing about how this policy limits young people’s opportunities at economic and academic success, and has repercussions that adversely affect people for the rest of their lives.

Start talking about how the war on weed endangers young people’s health and safety because it enables teens to have easier access to pot than to legal, age-restricted intoxicants like alcohol and tobacco. Talk about how prohibition forces young people to interact and befriend pushers of other illegal, more dangerous drugs. Talk about how prohibition compels young people dismiss the educational messages they receive pertaining to the potential health risks posed by the use of ‘hard drugs’ and prescription pharmaceuticals because they say: “If they lied to me about pot, why wouldn’t they be lying to me about everything else too.”

Most importantly, talk about how criminal prohibition is far more likely to result in having all of you sitting in this room struggling to get over a lifelong criminal conviction than it is in any way going to discourage you or your friends from trying pot.

And when I say ‘talk about it,’ that’s exactly what I mean – TALK. But talk to those who know you – your family, your friends, your parents, your neighbors, your professors, your faculty advisers. These are the people who you have built in credibility with. These are the people who are most likely to share and act upon your concerns because they care about you. They care about what you think, and they actually care about what happens to you.

(You know it’s funny, so often I hear activists talk about how they want to spread the word by going out on some street-corner and handing out leaflets to strangers. Or they want to engage in debates with some paid prohibitionist, as if by providing he or she with the facts about marijuana will somehow change his or her position. Or they want to post messages on some anti-drug website. Big deal. Talking to strangers is easy; it’s talking to people you know that’s hard. But it’s talking to people you know that is ultimately going to make a difference.)

So after you’re done talking about the evils of the drug war with your friends, family, and faculty – and encouraging them to begin engaging in this conversation as well – then it’s time to move the discussion to those who can shape public opinion and policy: the editors at your school paper, the leaders in your student government, your city council, your mayor, you state elected officials. Talk to these folks, and keep talking to these folks. And if they won’t listen to you then become one of them. Join the school paper; run for student government; run for city council. If not you, then who?

Here’s something else I want you to do to help bring about an end to marijuana prohibition. There’s something I want you all to say when you are engaging in your outreach efforts, and that is this: NOT IN MY NAME.

You know, when those who support marijuana prohibition are forced to defend it, they do so by saying that it’s all about you: it’s all about protecting and providing for the best interest of young people. You know, sort of like “we have to destroy the village in order to to save it.”

It’s time for all of you in this room to stop being the scapegoats for the abuses and the excesses of drug war. It’s time to say: enough! We don’t want your criminal policies; we never asked for your criminal policies; and we’re tired of having our good names be used to support your failed drug war. The war on marijuana isn’t saving us; it’s harming us, and we demand that it comes to end before it destroys another generations the same way it has destroyed ours.

Okay, so that’s the easy part – here’s the hard part. If students – and I’m talking about you guys here, and I’m also talking about all of your friends and colleagues who aren’t here – really are going to be the game-changers in this battle, this fight that all of us sitting up here have been waging for far too long already, then we need for you guys to take a pledge:

Don’t let your activism be a phase in your life; make it a part of your life.

When I graduated college in 1994 there was no SSDP; there was no ASA. There barely was an MPP. There was the DPA – with one office a handful of employees. There was no LEAP, no SAFER; no frankly there was no professional movement. Since then the landscape has changed monumentally.

Today, there are now dozens of organizations working on drug policy reform, and with that, dozens of job opportunities for you to get involved and stay involved in marijuana policy after you graduate college. So I give you a challenge: You really want to end the drug war? Consider making drug policy your career choice. You can start right now by applying for an internship at NORML or a fellowship at SSDP. Many of this movement’s current leaders started out this way, Kris Krane, Mason Tvert, Tom Angel, Stacia Cosner, Micah Daigle, and many others. They did it, and you can too.

Finally, even if you don’t wish to pursue marijuana law reform as a career, I encourage you to stay active in the movement. Between the Internet, podcasts, list-servs, social networking sites like Facebook, you now have access to unparalleled quantities of drug-law reform information in real time. Just this past week NORML launched its own Iphone app.

In other words, it is now easier than ever to stay plugged in to your networks and continue to educate yourself and your friends about drug policy reform. Check out NORML’s daily podcast, the Audio Stash, for the latest breaking news, or check out NORML’s capwiz page to instantly learn about upcoming state and federal votes in legislation that affects us all. And use what you learn to continue to move this conversation forward.

The bottom line: all of you in this room have the power to change these laws, and today you have an unprecedented opportunity to do so. So get out there and do it!

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Originally Posted by Majestic

not only that universal mind, but even smoking that amount won't kill you, because you will pass out way before then.

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I was talking about the amount of marijuana it would take over the course of somebody's life. There are no reports of anybody ever dying from marijuana even that way. The amount of marijuana it would take to kill somebody in one sitting is so outrageous that dying that way physically cannot be done. It never has and never will. What baffles me so much about people who argue for the illegality of marijuana is that they overlook the fact that it is not lethal. I know it has certain problems like causing some people to be lazy and hindering short term memory even during sobriety for a while in people who do it all the time, but it does not kill people. That is a very important piece of information in this debate.

Alcohol is an absolute monster when it comes to human death, though. When you question marijuana illegality advocates on the difference, they make the point that alcohol can be done in moderation. I don't understand the relevance of that. Sean Hannity says it all the time when talking about drugs in general. He says stuff like, "There is a difference between getting wacked out and drinking a beer." It completely overlooks the fact that people by the hundreds of millions drink a lot more than a beer. It also overlooks the fact that some people smoke just one hit of marijuana every few months. The idea that alcohol should be legal while marijuana should be illegal is not logical from any angle or crafty wording.

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Originally Posted by Loaf

Low doses of alcohol are fine. I'm sure low doses of marijuana at first would be okay, except for the fact you'd probably develop an addiction and start to use more than you should. I'm opposed to people getting extremely drunk - personally, I'd hate to not be in control of my actions.

Marijuana being illegal? I wouldn't know. But I can say that seeing people trying to justify its use is terribly annoying. If you really think that serious health problems (ones that are more instant and severe than those caused by drinking, and bad foods) are worth the risk just so you can be off your face, then your priorities are odd.

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Stop treating marijuana like it's just another thing to get addicted to, because you clearly don't know what addiction is. There is MENTAL addiction, and PHYSICAL addiction. Video games are an example of mental addiction, and nicotene, cocaine, and alcohol are physically addicting drugs, some faster than others. Marijuana is a fine example of MENTAL addiction, because it is fun and people want to do it strictly because of that.

And 'be off your face' is the most ignorant generalization of being stoned I've ever heard. The only time I'm ever close to 'off my face' is when I'm drunk as hell.

Sony, you have to excuse loaf. He is only 13 years old and he doesn't know. He still buys into the propaganda. He believes the story where the guy blows off his head with a shotgun from being high off weed, or the story about the girl on LSD that put a baby in the oven and tried to cook it as food.

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Originally Posted by Loaf

Its not about lack of freedom, its about breaking the chain now so future generations aren't exposed to harm. If you take away cigarettes now, nobody will care about it once all the past users have passed away. Why should I have to inhale second hand smoke just because some bozo can't kick his useless addiction. I for one won't stand and watch perfectly good human beings die, just so they can get a "buzz".

You can't compare eating fatty foods to smoking marijuana. Thats like comparing taking a bicycle ride to taking a train.

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Sorry to butt in, but I wanted to. (Okay, so maybe I'm not THAT sorry.)
You know, making things illegal does invade someone's personal freedom of choice. If you take away ciggies, people will still smoke. Drugs & marijuana are illegal, yet here, in Mexico, the most violent war is the drug war. Why? Because it's illegal! It's not fair for someone else to decide whether you should do something or not, it simply isn't.

Fatty foods are even more toxic and dangerous than marijuana. At least marijuana is natural and free from chemicals.

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Originally Posted by Alexander1656

Ok, but, Lucid dreaming is something that should be axssesable by everyone. It is not ment to be something assoated with drugs. Also, I really would nver break the law(Besudes downloading a few iligle music

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Lucid dreaming isn't meant to be anything, its a function of life, and one of the most amazing ones I've come across.

I've also read in a few places that smoking pot and using psychedelic drugs increases a persons chances of discovering/having lucid dreams. This being because smoking pot opens up some kinds of neuro-somatic pathways and makes a person used to higher states of consciousness. I honestly don't understand the science behind it, but it makes sense at least insofar as smoking pot produces similar effects to meditation and breathing exercises. I'll try to clear this post up tomorrow if I have time, but it's late.

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Originally Posted by stonedape

Lucid dreaming isn't meant to be anything, its a function of life, and one of the most amazing ones I've come across.

I've also read in a few places that smoking pot and using psychedelic drugs increases a persons chances of discovering/having lucid dreams. This being because smoking pot opens up some kinds of neuro-somatic pathways and makes a person used to higher states of consciousness. I honestly don't understand the science behind it, but it makes sense at least insofar as smoking pot produces similar effects to meditation and breathing exercises. I'll try to clear this post up tomorrow if I have time, but it's late.

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Hell yeah man I completely agree with you and I know exactly what you're talking about. It totally does put you in a higher state of consciousness. :)

I think it is absolutely hilarious that the original poster left due to lack of argument. Face it, pot is acceptable now.

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Originally Posted by Alexander1656

Read the heath risks again. You can get hurt. Also, alcohol isNOT addictive if you have a little bit of it. Some wine here and there, will not hurt you. Some whiskey everywhere will hurt you! As for pot, it hurts the people around you through second hand smoke. I have Asthma thanks to smokers! They are careless and not only causing them self harm but the people around them!

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Alcohol can be addictive if you have a little bit. You are 12, stop arguing about stuff you have no knowledge about. You are OBVIOUSLY still under the influence of propaganda.

Oh.. and you can't get "second hand smoke" from inhaling used pot. You would only get high. And it's called a Contact High, not second hand smoke ahahaha... :laugh:

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Originally Posted by Motumz

I think it is absolutely hilarious that the original poster left due to lack of argument. Face it, pot is acceptable now.




Alcohol can be addictive if you have a little bit. You are 12, stop arguing about stuff you have no knowledge about. You are OBVIOUSLY still under the influence of propaganda.

Oh.. and you can't get "second hand smoke" from inhaling used pot. You would only get high. And it's called a Contact High, not second hand smoke ahahaha... :laugh:

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I know, right? It's so evident that some people have no idea what they're talking about and it's all too ironic.

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Originally Posted by Sony86

I know, right? It's so evident that some people have no idea what they're talking about and it's all too ironic.

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Exactly. It's just sad that these lost, and lied to people can still make a shitty difference. So, marijuana is still illegal.

But not for long.. ;)

Once again the elusive and very temporary nature for the argument supporting the current legal status of marijuana is revealed. I challenge any of the posters who have previously posted arguments against the use of cannabis and supporting its current illegality to return to this thread and make a comprehensive post of individual reasons why cannabis should be illegal and be open minded enough to read the responses.

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Originally Posted by Motumz

Exactly. It's just sad that these lost, and lied to people can still make a shitty difference. So, marijuana is still illegal.

But not for long.. ;)

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At this point I don't mind if it becomes legal or not because I'm a medical marijuana patient :banana:

But considering that if it were to be legalized for recreational use, then the hemp plant itself will be legal and that threatens too many industries to count - Alcohol, tobacco, paper, clothing, and oil industry (to name a few) would suffer. Hemp produces 2,900 different products (something like that) including hemp clothing that is better and more durable than cotton clothing, gasoline that is more efficient than traditional fossil fuel/corn oils, and it produces paper that is far better than paper made from wood.

Now you see why it's such a threat, too many fat-ass owned corporations would suffer in the event of legalization so I don't see it happening (at least wide scale) any time soon though I would love to see it happen eventually.

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Originally Posted by imran_p

Once again the elusive and very temporary nature for the argument supporting the current legal status of marijuana is revealed. I challenge any of the posters who have previously posted arguments against the use of cannabis and supporting its current illegality to return to this thread and make a comprehensive post of individual reasons why cannabis should be illegal and be open minded enough to read the responses.

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Impossible. Anyone stupid enough to make allegations against pot is automatically not intelligent/wise enough to support them. It's a very ironic thing.

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Originally Posted by Sony86

At this point I don't mind if it becomes legal or not because I'm a medical marijuana patient :banana:

But considering that if it were to be legalized for recreational use, then the hemp plant itself will be legal and that threatens too many industries to count - Alcohol, tobacco, paper, clothing, and oil industry (to name a few) would suffer. Hemp produces 2,900 different products (something like that) including hemp clothing that is better and more durable than cotton clothing, gasoline that is more efficient than traditional fossil fuel/corn oils, and it produces paper that is far better than paper made from wood.

Now you see why it's such a threat, too many fat-ass owned corporations would suffer in the event of legalization so I don't see it happening (at least wide scale) any time soon though I would love to see it happen eventually.

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Is extracting usable oil from hemp easier than getting it from the underground?

By easier I mean cheaper and more efficiently.

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Originally Posted by Marvo

Is extracting usable oil from hemp easier than getting it from the underground?

By easier I mean cheaper and more efficiently.

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I don't have facts to back it up, but I would think it would be alot cheaper. You grow weed, send it to a processing plant that extracts the oils. On the other hand, you use heavy machinery (drills, rigs, etc) extract the oil from underground, then process it. I'm sure an oil rig itself blows the expenses out of the water (puns are awesome, lol).
As for efficiency...I'm not entirely sure there.

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Originally Posted by KingYoshi

I don't have facts to back it up, but I would think it would be alot cheaper. You grow weed, send it to a processing plant that extracts the oils. On the other hand, you use heavy machinery (drills, rigs, etc) extract the oil from underground, then process it. I'm sure an oil rig itself blows the expenses out of the water (puns are awesome, lol).
As for efficiency...I'm not entirely sure there.

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I'm positive that the production of hemp over oil would be more efficient, there's no way it wouldn't be, but I'm not sure if the fuel itself is more efficient than traditional fuels. I wonder if the production efficiency of hemp gasoline would outweigh the actual efficiency of fossil fuel.. That's a good question.

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Originally Posted by Loaf

Low doses of alcohol are fine. I'm sure low doses of marijuana at first would be okay, except for the fact you'd probably develop an addiction and start to use more than you should. I'm opposed to people getting extremely drunk - personally, I'd hate to not be in control of my actions.

Marijuana being illegal? I wouldn't know. But I can say that seeing people trying to justify its use is terribly annoying. If you really think that serious health problems (ones that are more instant and severe than those caused by drinking, and bad foods) are worth the risk just so you can be off your face, then your priorities are odd.

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Something I missed...
I don't know how others here feel about this; I can only speak for myself.
I do not ever smoke to be "off my face", if you smoke just to get fucked up then you are using it for the wrong reasons. And that's because it's good for so much more! With alchohol the most you're going to do is get hammered. Pot is a mind-opening substance, in many ways.

UM, back me up on this one.

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Originally Posted by Supernova

Something I missed...
I don't know how others here feel about this; I can only speak for myself.
I do not ever smoke to be "off my face", if you smoke just to get fucked up then you are using it for the wrong reasons. And that's because it's good for so much more! With alchohol the most you're going to do is get hammered. Pot is a mind-opening substance, in many ways.

UM, back me up on this one.

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Dude read my posts above I've backed you to holy hell and back ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Supernova

Something I missed...
I don't know how others here feel about this; I can only speak for myself.
I do not ever smoke to be "off my face", if you smoke just to get fucked up then you are using it for the wrong reasons. And that's because it's good for so much more! With alchohol the most you're going to do is get hammered. Pot is a mind-opening substance, in many ways.

UM, back me up on this one.

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Eh, the amount of weed I smoke would leave most people unable to function. The reason I smoke is because I want to. I like the way it makes me feel and I am more comfortable high than not. I'm laid back anyway and it makes me even more so. I like weed's f***ed up feeling alot and I stay that way. I guess I smoke for the "wrong reasons", but f*** it, lol.

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Originally Posted by KingYoshi

Eh, the amount of weed I smoke would leave most people unable to function. The reason I smoke is because I want to. I like the way it makes me feel and I am more comfortable high than not. I'm laid back anyway and it makes me even more so. I like weed's f***ed up feeling alot and I stay that way. I guess I smoke for the "wrong reasons", but f*** it, lol.

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Haha I feel you there, man. I started smoking it like that, but then I realized the effects were extremely beneficial for me physically and mentally. (Have stomach disorder (gastritis), weed cures %100), so that's why I have my medical license, and the stuff just makes me feel better mentally so I never stopped.

And hey, you're a stoner like me, and you can lucid dream just fine! I wish I had that type of recall.

Ok, I am thinking more of the type of person who will get drunk then smoke some pot just to be "fucked up", and never see past that. Getting high just to get high is fine, I do that often myself, but it does more than just make you feel different, unlike alchohol, that was my point. Things like enhancing creativity or allowing more deep/philosophical thoughts to develop (my personal favorite of it's effects;))

Just a misunderstanding. That post was a bit rushed.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Supernova

Ok, I am thinking more of the type of person who will get drunk then smoke some pot just to be "fucked up", and never see past that. Getting high just to get high is fine, I do that often myself, but it does more than just make you feel different, unlike alchohol, that was my point. Things like enhancing creativity or allowing more deep/philosophical thoughts to develop (my personal favorite of it's effects;))

Just a misunderstanding. That post was a bit rushed.

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Very true. The creativity and philosophical thought are definately awesome effects. I do my best thinking when I'm high. I will literally smoke and just think for hours at a time (when I'm alone). I also always smoke right before going to bed because it makes my lucid dreams creative and downright crazy (which I love). So many random/crazy things are going on in my dreams (mostly in the background) all the time that I couldn't possibly remember all of it. I do pretty well with recall though (took me alot of practice to get to where I am :P). Another cool thing about being a stoner (well kind of cool I guess :P)...you can create a smoking device out of anything, literally :D.

Not to mention it is a automatic hangover cure, stress cure, settles the nerves, erases embaressment entirely (I haven't felt embaressed in years...I'm just like "f*** it...what can ya do", lol.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KingYoshi

Very true. The creativity and philosophical thought are definately awesome effects. I do my best thinking when I'm high. I will literally smoke and just think for hours at a time (when I'm alone). I also always smoke right before going to bed because it makes my lucid dreams creative and downright crazy (which I love). So many random/crazy things are going on in my dreams (mostly in the background) all the time that I couldn't possibly remember all of it. I do pretty well with recall though (took me alot of practice to get to where I am :P). Another cool thing about being a stoner (well kind of cool I guess :P)...you can create a smoking device out of anything, literally :D.

Not to mention it is a automatic hangover cure, stress cure, settles the nerves, erases embaressment entirely (I haven't felt embaressed in years...I'm just like "f*** it...what can ya do", lol.

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Yea, I love getting high with someone else who likes to think deeply about things like I do, and just talking about stuff...did that with my cousin the other day while driving around, we both had some pretty interesting things to say.

I remember at one point, I saw one of those crosswalk markers that they put in the middle of the street, but it still has the walking stick guy symbol on it, and the most random thought came into my mind...I asked my cousin what he would do if the stick guy just started moving around on the sign :P

I also love listening to a song and just really analyzing it, various aspects of the song, the meaning, etc. Writing music is great too.

[/ramble]But yea it also usually gives me some pretty crazy dreams, really strange stuff going on, often I find also that it's the kind of dream that would be difficult to decribe the experience to someone once awake.

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Originally Posted by Motumz

I think it is absolutely hilarious that the original poster left due to lack of argument. Face it, pot is acceptable now.




Alcohol can be addictive if you have a little bit. You are 12, stop arguing about stuff you have no knowledge about. You are OBVIOUSLY still under the influence of propaganda.

Oh.. and you can't get "second hand smoke" from inhaling used pot. You would only get high. And it's called a Contact High, not second hand smoke ahahaha... :laugh:

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I got this at a metallica concert. T'was interesting.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KingYoshi

Very true. The creativity and philosophical thought are definately awesome effects. I do my best thinking when I'm high. I will literally smoke and just think for hours at a time (when I'm alone). I also always smoke right before going to bed because it makes my lucid dreams creative and downright crazy (which I love). So many random/crazy things are going on in my dreams (mostly in the background) all the time that I couldn't possibly remember all of it. I do pretty well with recall though (took me alot of practice to get to where I am :P). Another cool thing about being a stoner (well kind of cool I guess :P)...you can create a smoking device out of anything, literally :D.

Not to mention it is a automatic hangover cure, stress cure, settles the nerves, erases embaressment entirely (I haven't felt embaressed in years...I'm just like "f*** it...what can ya do", lol.

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Haha I can relate to that post in so many ways, I really need to master your recall skills because you're totally right when you say it makes dreams WAY more exciting and out of the ordinary. The dream I had this morning was ridiculous, I WBTB'ed after smoking a bowl and I had a dream that I was jumping across huge moving glass platforms with my dog, they like shifted back and forth so you had to jump on them with the right timing, pretty intense! Then I dreamed I was motorcycle-ing off of sky scrapers which was AWESOME.

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Originally Posted by Kraftwerk

I got this at a metallica concert. T'was interesting.

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Try actually smoking it, it's a hell of a lot more interesting.

Weed + Food.

http://portfolio.kevinthom.com/album...tasy_loops.jpg



That doesn't look like brain-cell frying to me.

Cereal on weed..is damn be good. Heavenly, if I must say lol

I hate to harsh your buzz guys, but can we at least stay relatively on-topic? We know weed is great and makes life a lot nicer for a lot of people. Personal anecdotes are nice, but it quickly devolves into "man, I got so hiiigh one time, and it was awesome" and "dude, can-pipes really get you ripped!" The last legality thread got closed because of stuff like this.

Either that, or we need an official psychedelic psection.

You are a party pooper :|

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Originally Posted by Odd_Nonposter

I hate to harsh your buzz guys, but can we at least stay relatively on-topic? We know weed is great and makes life a lot nicer for a lot of people. Personal anecdotes are nice, but it quickly devolves into "man, I got so hiiigh one time, and it was awesome" and "dude, can-pipes really get you ripped!" The last legality thread got closed because of stuff like this.

Either that, or we need an official psychedelic psection.

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Yeah, he is right. It was my fault really :P. I apologize.

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Originally Posted by KingYoshi

Yeah, he is right. It was my fault really :P. I apologize.

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I am going to make an all-out 'Marijuana & Psychedelics' thread, when the drug policy is cleared up between the moderators. It will be awesome haha.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KingYoshi

Very true. The creativity and philosophical thought are definately awesome effects. I do my best thinking when I'm high. I will literally smoke and just think for hours at a time (when I'm alone). I also always smoke right before going to bed because it makes my lucid dreams creative and downright crazy (which I love). So many random/crazy things are going on in my dreams (mostly in the background) all the time that I couldn't possibly remember all of it. I do pretty well with recall though (took me alot of practice to get to where I am :P). Another cool thing about being a stoner (well kind of cool I guess :P)...you can create a smoking device out of anything, literally :D.

Not to mention it is a automatic hangover cure, stress cure, settles the nerves, erases embaressment entirely (I haven't felt embaressed in years...I'm just like "f*** it...what can ya do", lol.

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Exactly. I actually find humor in self-embarrassment now, thanks to Cannabis.

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Originally Posted by Supernova

Something I missed...
I don't know how others here feel about this; I can only speak for myself.
I do not ever smoke to be "off my face", if you smoke just to get fucked up then you are using it for the wrong reasons. And that's because it's good for so much more! With alchohol the most you're going to do is get hammered. Pot is a mind-opening substance, in many ways.

UM, back me up on this one.

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Ha ha, yep. People don't usually use pot for getting on their faces. They use alcohol and prescription pills for that. Pot is more of a, "Wow, look at that over there. Hey, I have an idea," kind of drug.

I agree as well.

Just heard a great interview on NPR with the head of NORML in California about the two propositions working thewir way through California legislature that would effectively legalize marijuana in California. It was a breif interview, but she made some very good points. I'll post a link as soon as it's up on their website (sometime tomorrow probably).

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Originally Posted by Supernova

Just heard a great interview on NPR with the head of NORML in California about the two propositions working thewir way through California legislature that would effectively legalize marijuana in California. It was a breif interview, but she made some very good points. I'll post a link as soon as it's up on their website (sometime tomorrow probably).

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I hope Texas is next. Better yet, the whole country.. :?

Hah. If the Texas Board of Education is any indication of the political opinion there, Texas is probably going to be the last state to legalize if it comes down to voter initiative. If a nationwide bill is passed, Texas republicans will kick and scream until forcibly removed from office.

I'm just hoping for meds in my area. We had a bill once in Ohio, but it died.

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Originally Posted by Odd_Nonposter

Hah. If the Texas Board of Education is any indication of the political opinion there, Texas is probably going to be the last state to legalize if it comes down to voter initiative. If a nationwide bill is passed, Texas republicans will kick and scream until forcibly removed from office.

I'm just hoping for meds in my area. We had a bill once in Ohio, but it died.

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Yea that's kind of what I thought.. :? Oh well, I'm doing just fine getting it while it's illegal. A dispensary would be nice though :roll:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Odd_Nonposter

Hah. If the Texas Board of Education is any indication of the political opinion there, Texas is probably going to be the last state to legalize if it comes down to voter initiative. If a nationwide bill is passed, Texas republicans will kick and scream until forcibly removed from office.

I'm just hoping for meds in my area. We had a bill once in Ohio, but it died.

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I guarantee Virginia will be one of the last (if not THE last) to legalize. Some of the laws here are absolutely ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by Majestic

You are a party pooper :|

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Actually, he was trying to stay within the bounds of the discussion so that it can continue, which is something that everyone should be doing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Odd_Nonposter

I'm just hoping for meds in my area. We had a bill once in Ohio, but it died.

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There's another one, or so I've been told. Will be on the ballot this year. I would look for a source but I'm sick as a dog.

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Originally Posted by stonedape

There's another one, or so I've been told. Will be on the ballot this year. I would look for a source but I'm sick as a dog.

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Smoke more pot. It makes being sick, fun.

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Originally Posted by Motumz

Smoke more pot. It makes being sick, fun.

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I would(especially since I've got an ear infection and a bad back), but I've only got $10 and I've joined a local crusade which prevents me from smoking schwag. Strangely enough it was started by one of my professors who encourages everyone to grow their own weed.

LOOL. According to the Mozilla Spellchecker, Schwag is not a word, but Schwa is.

Momuntz, it is that sort of thing that got the last one of these threads locked. Please don't talk in here about how much you love pot. The issue of the thread is way too important for the thread to end.

Moderators, if you want to interject here, please just delete the posts that are against the rules and don't lock the thread. Thanks.

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Originally Posted by Universal Mind

Momuntz, it is that sort of thing that got the last one of these threads locked. Please don't talk in here about how much you love pot. The issue of the thread is way too important for the thread to end.

Moderators, if you want to interject here, please just delete the posts that are against the rules and don't lock the thread. Thanks.

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Sorry to get more off topic, but what is the status of the drug policy here? I heard that it was going to be changed, which it ought to be, because honestly what is so harmful about people who smoke weed talking about smoking weed? It's not like we're talking about how to make crack pipes or something. Is this in someway corrupting the minds of the youth (who aren't even supposed to be members of this site if I remember correctly)? It's not in anyway illegal, or harmful to talk about weed in any context that I'm aware of(other than stating that you are in possession of weed to a police officer), so where's the beef?

Sorry, but I think it's absurd that we have to act like children and avoid certain taboo subjects, especially one such as why we like marijuana.

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Originally Posted by stonedape

Sorry to get more off topic, but what is the status of the drug policy here? I heard that it was going to be changed, which it ought to be, because honestly what is so harmful about people who smoke weed talking about smoking weed? It's not like we're talking about how to make crack pipes or something. Is this in someway corrupting the minds of the youth (who aren't even supposed to be members of this site if I remember correctly)? It's not in anyway illegal, or harmful to talk about weed in any context that I'm aware of(other than stating that you are in possession of weed to a police officer), so where's the beef?

Sorry, but I think it's absurd that we have to act like children and avoid certain taboo subjects, especially one such as why we like marijuana.

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Patience, my young padiwan.

In other news...

So, there were few guys in one of my classes talking about the bills in California, and they seemed to be for it. Note, they're of the type that wouldn't touch weed with a 10 foot pole, nor alchohol. It's encouraging to hear that kind of talk, it really is.

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Originally Posted by Supernova

Patience, my young padiwan.

In other news...

So, there were few guys in one of my classes talking about the bills in California, and they seemed to be for it. Note, they're of the type that wouldn't touch weed with a 10 foot pole, nor alchohol. It's encouraging to hear that kind of talk, it really is.

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I heard a similar conversation between my neighbors the other week, both were of the same kind of people who wouldn't touch weed either. Indeed, it's inspiring.

Just thought I'd revive this thread as I light up a bowl of sweet hemp for the first time in a month or so! :) I lost all of my connects, so I grew my own for 3 weeks, then smoked the straight leaves (it was dying anyway. I had to move the plant, and the transplant shocked the roots). I'm pretty high, and it's great! Here's a picture, it is sooo beautiful! <3 I didn't expect to actually get this high, but I suppose it isn't too surprising, as the leaves smelled like sweet skunk. Smells good.

Hell yeah man! I've heard a lot of people not being ableto smoke because they lose their connections or move somewhere, but I've never heard of someone having that happen then just growing their own :D now that's being resourceful haha. Where abouts do you live? When I lived in Colorado weed is easier to get than anything, you can have it delivered to your house if you're a medical patient, but when I moved to Scotland finding weed was next to impossible till I learned my cousin was the biggest stoner in the highlands haha, it was from there that I realized that unless you're in a desert or somewhere else devoid of civilization, finding weed is always possible it's just a matter of finding who has it, bars are a good place to start.

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Originally Posted by Sony86

Don't generalize marijuana as just another 'drug'. It is unlike any other drug man has ever laid his hands on in the respect that you can use it completely unsynthesized (You're smoking a plant that grows out of the ground itself rather than chemicals mixed in a laboratory). Drugs ARE bad for you, but I do not consider pot a drug, because it is A. Not physically addictive (It's about as addictive as a good video game, there are no actual physical properties in pot that make it in any way physically addictive, meaning it's not like nicotene which actually physically addicts you. Mental addiction can be anything, you can be mentally addicted to masturbation for fuck's sake), and B. It does absolutely nothing to harm you, besides making you unmotivated due to your own actions. Lung cancer and pot are completely unassociated, and it's also been found that cigarette smokers who ALSO smoke weed LIVE LONGER. There are no known deaths as a result of smoking pot, and there is no possible way to overdose. (Maybe possible, but you'd have to smoke about 10 times your body weight).

So please, don't generalize it as just another 'drug' because it is certainly, absolutely, not. The 'gateway drug' argument is valid, but only as a result of pot prohibition. If pot were legal, you wouldn't be buying it from people who also sell other drugs and that's exactly what makes it a gateway drug. Again, there is no property of weed that could ever encourage you to want a better high, or to try a different drug, the only way it could feasibly be a gateway drug is because of the fact that is is illegal. Alcohol could be just as easily considered a gateway drug if it were illegal and you were buying it from people with other actual drugs.

I had the misconception about pot when I was growing up, and so did everyone else. We all thought it was evil shit at one point, it's just a matter of actually trying it for yourself and realizing how simple and awesome weed is. (Kind of like being afraid of an intimidating waterslide as a kid and then finally getting convinced to go on it, and completely disproving previous fears and uncertainty about the slide itself.) Booze is legal, alcohol is far more of a drug than THC (weed) will ever be. It's far, far more harmful to you than any weed will ever be - yet it's legal, smart world right?

Food for thought, please consider my words without dismissing them as misinformation as it is quality valid information, not an opinion.

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A drug, broadly speaking, is any substance that, when absorbed into the body of a living organism, alters normal bodily function. [source: wikipedia]
Marijuana is a substance that, when absorbed into the body of a living organism, alters normal bodily function.
Therefore, marijuana is a drug.

I think what you're actually trying to say is to not generalize marijuana as a drug with negative physical effects.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sony86

Hell yeah man! I've heard a lot of people not being ableto smoke because they lose their connections or move somewhere, but I've never heard of someone having that happen then just growing their own :D now that's being resourceful haha. Where abouts do you live? When I lived in Colorado weed is easier to get than anything, you can have it delivered to your house if you're a medical patient, but when I moved to Scotland finding weed was next to impossible till I learned my cousin was the biggest stoner in the highlands haha, it was from there that I realized that unless you're in a desert or somewhere else devoid of civilization, finding weed is always possible it's just a matter of finding who has it, bars are a good place to start.

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Haha Colorado, I remember about a year ago going there for a skiing vacation and ending up smoking 3 different times with 3 different people on the ski-lifts. It was so badass watching everyone just chill and blatantly smoke. But I have to ask, why did you move from Colorado to Scotland?

Oh, I also live in Texas. I actually just planted another plant, this one came from a hybrid called "Sweet Island Skunk". I didn't NEED to plant this one, because I have herb hookups now... but the seed looked so good, I just had to plant it now. It will probably grow till late December, then the frost will move in, and I'll have to smoke it. Maybe I'll be able to harvest some actual bud because of the light change? Doubtful though.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by malac

A drug, broadly speaking, is any substance that, when absorbed into the body of a living organism, alters normal bodily function. [source: wikipedia]
Marijuana is a substance that, when absorbed into the body of a living organism, alters normal bodily function.
Therefore, marijuana is a drug.

I think what you're actually trying to say is to not generalize marijuana as a drug with negative physical effects.

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Also, this. Totally right.

Prop 19 ftw, god I love being Californian

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Originally Posted by WakataDreamer

Prop 19 ftw, god I love being Californian

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*jealousy*

ALSO! Akono.. a "moderator" removed my picture I had up of my plant I had. So if any of you still want to see it, just message me, because apparently posting pictures of nature is against the rules here?... :roll: Kind of pathetic, but whatever.

I love(d) marijuana. I had been smoking it for a long time and have had my medical card for almost 2 years now. However, I guess my body rejects it now as every time I smoke ganja I feint or have some major panic attack - it literally feels like my heart is skipping beats and I'm having a heart attack. I use to be able to smoke tons but now even a hit off a spoon pipe or a delicious brownie brings the symptoms on.

At first it was very sad times for me, I mean my life revolved around weed and the culture - meeting the coolest people at clinics plus very hot ladies working at some :). Being sober off all drugs (except the occasional psychedelic every 6 months or so) has been quite amazing though. Everything is just more clear and better, its kind of hard to explain. It's almost like marijuana lead me down this amazing path of self discovery and spirituality that rings true to me and I now no longer "need" MJ. I will always be an advocate of Marijuana and sure do hope it becomes legal nationwide sometime in my lifetime. I have seen and experienced it's great healing potential and firmly believe the vast majority of the public needs proper education on it's benefits and shown the very few negatives MJ has. As for me, though, I will probably not be using marijuana for a very long time.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cosmix

I love(d) marijuana. I had been smoking it for a long time and have had my medical card for almost 2 years now. However, I guess my body rejects it now as every time I smoke ganja I feint or have some major panic attack - it literally feels like my heart is skipping beats and I'm having a heart attack. I use to be able to smoke tons but now even a hit off a spoon pipe or a delicious brownie brings the symptoms on.

At first it was very sad times for me, I mean my life revolved around weed and the culture - meeting the coolest people at clinics plus very hot ladies working at some :). Being sober off all drugs (except the occasional psychedelic every 6 months or so) has been quite amazing though. Everything is just more clear and better, its kind of hard to explain. It's almost like marijuana lead me down this amazing path of self discovery and spirituality that rings true to me and I now no longer "need" MJ. I will always be an advocate of Marijuana and sure do hope it becomes legal nationwide sometime in my lifetime. I have seen and experienced it's great healing potential and firmly believe the vast majority of the public needs proper education on it's benefits and shown the very few negatives MJ has. As for me, though, I will probably not be using marijuana for a very long time.

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Damn that's sad to hear! :( So is your body like allergic to it now? Or is something Psychologically wrong (I wouldn't say mentally, more like physically.. but in your brain) and Marijuana triggers that error?

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Originally Posted by Motumz

Damn that's sad to hear! :( So is your body like allergic to it now? Or is something Psychologically wrong (I wouldn't say mentally, more like physically.. but in your brain) and Marijuana triggers that error?

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That's kind of what I think. The first time I feinted I was outside and face planted on the side walk. I fractured a couple bones around my eye so I think my mind now associates being high with that trauma.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cosmix

That's kind of what I think. The first time I feinted I was outside and face planted on the side walk. I fractured a couple bones around my eye so I think my mind now associates being high with that trauma.

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Man that's crazy! :( Is it just when you smoke Marijuana, or any high triggers it?