Thread: Split Marijuana Discussion

Originally Posted by Loaf

Oh, so perfectly good information is now invalid because someone else wrote it? Pfft.

Do you honestly think that was my point? Do you really think I was saying the information is invalid? Pffft. As I suggested, the fact that something can cause health problems for the user is not a legitimate basis for making or keeping it illegal. Therefore, just posting a link to health statistics concerning marijuana did not answer my question. Understand?

Since you are in this and you thanked Alexander for his last post, I challenge you to address the issues I raised. Let's see what you can tell us about them.

Edit: You just added your expression of lack of respect for personal freedom when it comes to tobacco, so how about the other issues I raised?

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

Edit: You just added your expression of lack of respect for personal freedom when it comes to tobacco, so how about the other issues I raised?

Its not about lack of freedom, its about breaking the chain now so future generations aren't exposed to harm. If you take away cigarettes now, nobody will care about it once all the past users have passed away. Why should I have to inhale second hand smoke just because some bozo can't kick his useless addiction. I for one won't stand and watch perfectly good human beings die, just so they can get a "buzz".

You can't compare eating fatty foods to smoking marijuana. Thats like comparing taking a bicycle ride to taking a train.

Originally Posted by Loaf

Its not about lack of freedom, its about breaking the chain now so future generations aren't exposed to harm. If you take away cigarettes now, nobody will care about it once all the past users have passed away. Why should I have to inhale second hand smoke just because some bozo can't kick his useless addiction. I for one won't stand and watch perfectly good human beings die, just so they can get a "buzz".

It's not your call. It's theirs. Who are you to tell people how well they should be required to take care of their own bodies? Whether or not smoking is allowed in a particular facility should be up to the facility owner, not the government. If you don't like second hand smoke, stay out of the facilities where it exists.

Originally Posted by Loaf

You can't compare eating fatty foods to smoking marijuana. Thats like comparing taking a bicycle ride to taking a train.

You're going to need to explain that. Heart disease is the number one killer in the United States, and I imagine it is a big killer in New Zealand too. How many people does marijuana kill per year?

I raised other issues, including recreational driving and alcohol. Where do you stand on those?

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

It's not your call. It's theirs.

Well its to my opinion that those people are making lousy, poorly thought out decisions (probably largely influenced by the addiction) and should not be given that choice. I am all for freedom and self expression. But this is killing them.
I guess with your logic, I should let a suicidal person jump off a 30 story building, because otherwise I might be taking away their freedom.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

You're going to need to explain that. Heart disease is the number one killer in the United States, and I imagine it is a big killer in New Zealand too.

These people are addicted to fatty foods. I know I am right now. But I don't accept it, and I won't let it continue. These people need help to get their diets on track - most of them know that, and most of them want it. And if someone we know suffers from heart disease, its our job as their family to help them eat better and cope with it. Not let them continue eating shit for the purpose of freedom. Because we care about them enough to know ultimately its whats best for them. And surely they know that too.

Originally Posted by Loaf

I am all for freedom and self expression.

WTF? No you're not.

Originally Posted by Loaf

Well its to my opinion that those people are making lousy, poorly thought out decisions (probably largely influenced by the addiction) and should not be given that choice. I am all for freedom and self expression. But this is killing them.
I guess with your logic, I should let a suicidal person jump off a 30 story building, because otherwise I might be taking away their freedom.

Suicide is different because it kills 100% of the people who do it, and people are in a mentally ill state when they do it. The rights I believe in do not all apply to the mentally ill. Practically all suicidal people are glad later that they were physically stopped from committing suicide. Practically all people who are physically stopped from smoking cigarettes or marijuana are always pissed at the person who got what they consider to be nosy and arrogant.

You have no business preventing others from making what are merely bad health risk choices. What if the government started telling you how much you have to exercise every week and how many hours you have to sleep every night? They would be way the Hell out of line, wouldn't they?

Originally Posted by Loaf

These people are addicted to fatty foods. I know I am right now. But I don't accept it, and I won't let it continue. These people need help to get their diets on track - most of them know that, and most of them want it. And if someone we know suffers from heart disease, its our job as their family to help them eat better and cope with it. Not let them continue eating shit for the purpose of freedom. Because we care about them enough to know ultimately its whats best for them. And surely they know that too.

Uh, how is that different from marijuana and tobacco, other than the fact that a high percentage of marijuana smokers are not addicted to marijuana? I asked you for the difference, and you didn't tell me.

Now (Why do I keep having to ask you for this?), tell me how you feel about the legality of recreational driving and alcohol. Is there some important difference with them?

By the way, did you post in the Extended Discussion thread "Should marijuana be legal?" Please post in there. I would love to really get into this with you.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

Now (Why do I keep having to ask you for this?), tell me how you feel about the legality of recreational driving and alcohol. Is there some important difference with them?

Low doses of alcohol are fine. I'm sure low doses of marijuana at first would be okay, except for the fact you'd probably develop an addiction and start to use more than you should. I'm opposed to people getting extremely drunk - personally, I'd hate to not be in control of my actions.

Marijuana being illegal? I wouldn't know. But I can say that seeing people trying to justify its use is terribly annoying. If you really think that serious health problems (ones that are more instant and severe than those caused by drinking, and bad foods) are worth the risk just so you can be off your face, then your priorities are odd.

Originally Posted by Loaf

Low doses of alcohol are fine. I'm sure low doses of marijuana at first would be okay, except for the fact you'd probably develop an addiction and start to use more than you should. I'm opposed to people getting extremely drunk - personally, I'd hate to not be in control of my actions.

Marijuana being illegal? I wouldn't know. But I can say that seeing people trying to justify its use is terribly annoying. If you really think that serious health problems (ones that are more instant and severe than those caused by drinking, and bad foods) are worth the risk just so you can be off your face, then your priorities are odd.

Did you look at my link to alcohol statistics? How can you say the health effects of alcohol are less severe than those caused by marijuana? That is worlds away from the truth. Alcohol kills about 100,000 Americans per year. Do you have any idea how violent a high percentage of people get right after they start drinking? I am talking about on a given night. Have you ever heard of drunk driving wrecks? People die from them in the United States an average of every 30 minutes. They are so common that there is an entire system for dealing with drunk driving in every police department and a special set of laws aimed at it. There are attorneys in every city who make a living just handling DUI cases. Have you ever heard of dying of an alcohol overdose? It happens several times a day. Have you ever heard of death from liver disease? Alcohol causes it. ?Also, alcohol is extremely addictive. Unlike marijuana, it is physically addictive. Have you ever heard of Alcoholics Anonymous? Have you ever heard of alcoholics?

Do you know how many people have ever died of a marijuana overdose in the history of the world? ZERO!!!!!!!! Do you know how violent marijuana makes people? It makes them more passive in the vast majority of cases. Do you know how marijuana affects driving? It makes most people drive slower and more cautiously, though they are spacier. Driving while stoned is not good, but it is miniscule compared to driving while on alcohol, which wrecks coordination and judgment. People who would be screwed up in their driving by marijuana know it. No drunk person ever thinks he is too drunk to drive well. Even a babbling, slobbering, word slurring drunk who can't walk thinks he has enough skill to drive well.

So, what is special about alcohol?


P.S.- We were talking in the "Should marijuana be legal?" thread in Extended Discussion about public attitutudes concerning marijuana, and I think some of your last post speaks volumes about it. I am going to post it in there. You are welcome to show up in there and defend your position. I even request that you do.

Originally Posted by Loaf

Low doses of alcohol are fine. I'm sure low doses of marijuana at first would be okay, except for the fact you'd probably develop an addiction and start to use more than you should.

You've heard of alcoholism, right? It's most common definition is the consumption of alcohol to the point where it is detrimental to one's health, generally fueled by addiction. Just as people can drink in moderation without becoming addicted, people can toke (or eat or vaporize) in moderation without becoming "addicted."

And I put addicted in quotation marks because to my knowledge there isn't conclusive proof that one can develop an addiction to marijuana in the same way that one can develop an addiction to alcohol, cigarettes, heroin, cocaine or other substances.

EDIT: I didn't realize I had only read over the first page

Originally Posted by Loaf

Low doses of alcohol are fine. I'm sure low doses of marijuana at first would be okay, except for the fact you'd probably develop an addiction and start to use more than you should. I'm opposed to people getting extremely drunk - personally, I'd hate to not be in control of my actions.

Marijuana being illegal? I wouldn't know. But I can say that seeing people trying to justify its use is terribly annoying. If you really think that serious health problems (ones that are more instant and severe than those caused by drinking, and bad foods) are worth the risk just so you can be off your face, then your priorities are odd.

Stop treating marijuana like it's just another thing to get addicted to, because you clearly don't know what addiction is. There is MENTAL addiction, and PHYSICAL addiction. Video games are an example of mental addiction, and nicotene, cocaine, and alcohol are physically addicting drugs, some faster than others. Marijuana is a fine example of MENTAL addiction, because it is fun and people want to do it strictly because of that.

And 'be off your face' is the most ignorant generalization of being stoned I've ever heard. The only time I'm ever close to 'off my face' is when I'm drunk as hell.

Originally Posted by Loaf

Low doses of alcohol are fine. I'm sure low doses of marijuana at first would be okay, except for the fact you'd probably develop an addiction and start to use more than you should. I'm opposed to people getting extremely drunk - personally, I'd hate to not be in control of my actions.

Marijuana being illegal? I wouldn't know. But I can say that seeing people trying to justify its use is terribly annoying. If you really think that serious health problems (ones that are more instant and severe than those caused by drinking, and bad foods) are worth the risk just so you can be off your face, then your priorities are odd.

Something I missed...
I don't know how others here feel about this; I can only speak for myself.
I do not ever smoke to be "off my face", if you smoke just to get fucked up then you are using it for the wrong reasons. And that's because it's good for so much more! With alchohol the most you're going to do is get hammered. Pot is a mind-opening substance, in many ways.

UM, back me up on this one.

Originally Posted by Loaf

Its not about lack of freedom, its about breaking the chain now so future generations aren't exposed to harm. If you take away cigarettes now, nobody will care about it once all the past users have passed away. Why should I have to inhale second hand smoke just because some bozo can't kick his useless addiction. I for one won't stand and watch perfectly good human beings die, just so they can get a "buzz".

You can't compare eating fatty foods to smoking marijuana. Thats like comparing taking a bicycle ride to taking a train.

Sorry to butt in, but I wanted to. (Okay, so maybe I'm not THAT sorry.)
You know, making things illegal does invade someone's personal freedom of choice. If you take away ciggies, people will still smoke. Drugs & marijuana are illegal, yet here, in Mexico, the most violent war is the drug war. Why? Because it's illegal! It's not fair for someone else to decide whether you should do something or not, it simply isn't.

Fatty foods are even more toxic and dangerous than marijuana. At least marijuana is natural and free from chemicals.