Thread: Ask my opinion about vaccinations.

Originally Posted by Dannon Oneironaut

Formaldehyde?

The FDA says:

The average quantity of formaldehyde to which a young infant could be exposed to at one time through vaccines is very small and is considered to be safe.

Then it says that the amount of formaldehyde in vaccines is 600 times smaller than found to be safe in animals.

NEXT!

Btw, have you ever had smallpox? It was once a deadly infectious disease until Edward Jenner helped destroy it. And then SOME people joined him to defeat this beastie by having the jab.

Also, some people have stopped having their children have MMR. This has lead to a rise in measles…

To all antivaccine people, enjoy measles, even though it may kill or permantly damage you.

Lets see, I've personally seen about about fourteen people get the H1N1 vaccine at the same time. All of them had side-effects within four hours. A majority complained about bad headaches, so bad that some were considering going home to sleep and shake it off. One became rather ill a day or two after being vaccinated, which his face became flushed and he got very dizzy. The individual went home and didn't come back for few days.

Feeling ill after a vaccine is a common side effect. They may get symptoms of flu, but not the full-blown flu. When I got my first MMR jab I couldn't do anything for a few hours. This does not mean the vaccine is dodgy, if that's what you're saying. This is just the antibodys taking effect.

Too much medicine, not enough health.

What ever happened to having a healthy immune system? There is absolutely NO education about this in schools. I have met maybe two people my whole life besides Naturopathic doctors that know that you can make your immune system strong with proper lifestyle and diet and attitude. What about herbs as medicine? There is a wealth of information about herbs as medicine. The epidemics in Europe didn't happen until the Dark Ages after all the herbalists were burned at the stake. Herbs are VERY VERY effective and safer than most drugs which are derived from herbs. People who get the swine flu or the measles or polio from not getting vaccinated don't know about herbs and a healthy immune system.

Put it this way:

A football player is training up for a game. He has got to win this game or be kicked out. However he is a very good football player.

In this context, you are saying ‘why does he need to train? Isn't he a good football player already? Dosen't training hurt him?’ He needs to train so he can get better and know what to expect on the pitch. And he is a good football player, but training will make him better when the match happens. Also, injuries don't happen very often in this case. They make him stretch before any traning, and by training he is less likely to be hurt on the game.

In real life, training is like the vaccines. The man is the body being vaccinated and the match is the disease. The 'strechtes' are the reaches scientists go to make the vaccines safe. And a healthy immune system is necessary, this can be achieved by eating fruit & veg. Which IS taught via healthy school dinners. The goverment are working to make some kids healthier, via diet and excersise. I did not say vaccines are the ONLY thing to do though. Not at all.

As for all that only-two-people know this, I can already say it's wrong. I know this, my mother knows this, my friend's mum knows this. If I ask around all of Britain I think at least a million people know this.

With the ecidemics thing, what happened to conciedence? The herbilists themselves did not keep the epidemics off, but the virus/bacterium etc is most likely to have been introduced. It's not all cause-and-effect.

I'm not sure with herbs-as-medcines, but I think that certain chemicals in some herbs may have medcinal properties, but they're not the only thing to take when you get ill.

Anyway, the herbs thing, that's medicine when you get sick, not a prevention for certain illnesses. Vaccines do that.

Originally Posted by DannonOieronaut

Herbs are VERY VERY effective and safer than most drugs which are derived from herbs.

Your source? And what makes herbs safer than drugs? And what is your definition of ‘very very effective’? What I have written above is my reasoning, my logic. Is what you say your reasoning too?

I'm just questioning your information in a scientific way. Give me an answer that is scientific and I will believe this. And no running to this Mercola guy.

People who get the swine flu or the measles or polio from not getting vaccinated don't know about herbs and a healthy immune system.

Are you saying I am stupid and ignorant? Are you saying I don't know anything about health because I had the jab? That logic is childish. Jab=ignorance. Is that what you're saying? You are insulting millions of people, I for one. Please edit that to avoid getting nasty messages.

But don't blame me if you get measles. Unless you had two MMR jabs.

For every disease their are many herbs without side effects that can treat it.
And I am not talking about just eating fruits and vegetables. I am talking about the body's own medicine that it creates to treat any disease caused by a fungus, bacteria, or virus. Diseases like diabetes, cancer, and heart disease, which are untreatable by vaccines can be treated by diet, herbs, exercise, and the body's own medicine.
Nobody knows about the body's own medicine. I bet you are wondering what the hell I'm talking about when I say "the body's own medicine." It is what allowed me to survive eating the food and drinking the water in India, Thailand, Nepal, Mexico, Peru, etc... without any vaccines or bottled water or antibiotics without catching malaria, cholera, dysentery, etc...

Herbalism doesn't need science to verify it. Herbalism has worked for more than 10,000 years except in the Dark Ages of Europe. Science needs to dissect it into its chemical constituents and test each one independently of each other. Science has not had enough time to do that, and also these chemical constituents most of them work together and not alone. But what drugs science knows about has come from plants. It has come from science investigating the healing properties of plants. Plants are chemical factories. Herbalism is over 10,000 years old. Western medicine was blood letting and giving people leaches only a couple hundred years ago, and it had its "scientific" explanations. I am not against science, I just think that it is behind as far as understanding the holistic relationship of the health systems of bodies. It may understand what it does understand in a very thorough scientific way, but I would rather go to a mediocre herbalist than a good doctor for anything except appendicitis or an abdominal aortic aneurism. I treat myself all the time with herbs. I should have made a thread called "ask me about herbalism." And I would rather have my woman give birth to our baby at home than at the hospital. Pregnancy is not a disease. A doctor will give you drugs, and in most cases when a doctor performs a cesarean, it is not needed. They create a climate of fear around the birth for the mother and the baby. Midwives have been performing births since the dawn of humanity. I would take my woman to the emergency room only if it was absolutely necessary and under the advice of the midwife. I trust a midwife way more than I trust a doctor. Science is not evil, I am not against science, but doctors are not scientists, they are business men when it comes to birth, and treating diseases. And the last people I would trust is the pharmaceutical companies.
I trust a doctor much more than I trust the pharmaceutical companies.

I just saw a video where Bill Gates said that if we all get vaccinated and use western medicine we can reduce our population by something like 1/3 and thus solve the carbon footprint of humanity on the planet.

In your example of an athlete training for a competition and comparing that to vaccines, it is more like vaccines are like steroids in this case, which yes, they do make athletes excel, but it does damage the health in the long run, especially in evolution. What if it causes our immune systems to need vaccines to fight off any small virus a few generations down the road? There are natural ways, that works with our immune system and strengthens it to be able to handle threats.

During the plague, the people who survived consistently were the monks in churches who burnt frankincense and myrrh when they treated the sick. Also, when treating people with leprosy you use frankincense oil on yourself so you don't catch it. I learnt this in India. They have known this for at least 10,000 years. Frankincense smoke kills airborne germs, as does myrrh, copal, and other resins. Taken internally is amazing. We need to learn from this knowledge instead of dismiss it because we are prejudiced against cultures before our "scientific" one. Aromatic oils, etc.... even eagles and falcons know to build their nests out of rosemary, sage, thyme, etc. to make the eggs hard and strong and the babies immune to diseases. India has a science of life, called ayurveda, which is a medicine system that they developed over 10,000 years that has a far deeper understanding of how the systems of the body work together with herbs and the mind. Western medicine thinks that it is so clever that it can isolate salicylic acid from white willow bark and make aspirin, but then it wonders why it damages the liver when white willow bark doesn't.

First of all, unless you really mean it, be careful where your 'every' goes. But your placed (or misplaced) word has given me a few questions:

1) What plants cure the common cold, HIV, the flu, and (since you hate vaccines so much) measles? Both the common cold, HIV and flu are curruntly untreatable by Western medicine.

2) if plant medicine has been with the Indians for 10,000 years, how many Indians have lived for 10,000 years? Think about it…

3) How come chemicals work inside plants, but not as medicine?

As for the body-medicine thing, if the body did have a chemical that cures every disease ever known or unknown, then

a) it wouldn't need vaccines or medicine, herbal or otherwise

b) we'd all be hundreds of years old (I mean hundreds, not A hundred).

There IS something in the body that attacks disease, though. It's called the Immune system. Which brings me back to vaccines…

Vaccines literally train your white blood cells to recognize and destroy certain invaders. They don't chemically enhance the white blood cells to be in a frenzy for a few hours. That'd be dangourous.

As for drinking water in Peru etc, thank those white blood cells.

Also, vaccines don't make anyone weaker down Generation Road. And asprin dosen't damage the liver, the NHS says opposite:

An aspirin a day could help prevent liver damage caused by obesity, heavy drinking and drug use.

Diabeties, heart disease and most cancer can't be treated by vaccines, why?Because they aren't caused by a disease-causing micro-organism. Most of those three are caused by poor lifestyle choices, such as smoking and eating a bunch of fast food.

but I would rather go to a mediocre herbalist than a good doctor for anything except appendicitis or an abdominal aortic aneurism.

You're missing on good medical care. You're also saying that you would favour a herbalast that may not know what to do to a doctor, degrees and all.

Now for the mothering bit:

And I would rather have my woman give birth to our baby at home than at the hospital. Pregnancy is not a disease. A doctor will give you drugs, and in most cases when a doctor performs a cesarean, it is not needed.

Doctors just want you to make it less painful. And they only perform ceasarian when it is painful for the baby to come out.

but doctors are not scientists, they are business men when it comes to birth, and treating diseases.

Buisnessmen generally try to sell you stuff, even when it's not needed. Doctors don't try to sell you stuff, espically when it's not needed. At least not a real doctor, anyway.

even eagles and falcons know to build their nests out of rosemary, sage, thyme, etc. to make the eggs hard and strong and the babies immune to diseases.

Some piccies of Eagle nests I found on Wikipeida were made of what looks like wood. Unless herbs look just like tree branches.

I just saw a video where Bill Gates said that if we all get vaccinated and use western medicine we can reduce our population by something like 1/3 and thus solve the carbon footprint of humanity on the planet.

Where from? A little something (it may be common sense) tells me that it is likely to be fibs. Dangerous ones.

What if it causes our immune systems to need vaccines to fight off any small virus a few generations down the road?

There were more people dying from smallpox in 1750 than 1950.

PS I am still insulted by your jab=ignorance comment.

Ask me Tell me forum is for people sharing and asking for wisdom, not opinion. ED is the place for opinions. Moved.

In the New England Journal of Medicine July 1994 issue a study found that over 80% of children under 5 years of age who had contracted whooping cough had been fully vaccinated.

Also, 80% of them brushed their teeth regularly. I think we might be on to something here.

Originally Posted by hgld1234

1) What plants cure the common cold, HIV, the flu, and (since you hate vaccines so much) measles? Both the common cold, HIV and flu are curruntly untreatable by Western medicine.

Plants used to treat the common cold and the flu would be Echinacea, Oregon Grape Root, Elderberry, Yarrow, Garlic, Goldenrod, etc. I have no experience treating HIV but I know an herbalist in Oregon who does. http://www.botanicalmedicine.org/Tapes/Bios/Yance.htm

if plant medicine has been with the Indians for 10,000 years, how many Indians have lived for 10,000 years? Think about it…

Humans don't have to die from disease. If you never ever get sick you still die when it is your time when you get old, but not from a disease.

3) How come chemicals work inside plants, but not as medicine?

?????

As for the body-medicine thing, if the body did have a chemical that cures every disease ever known or unknown, then

a) it wouldn't need vaccines or medicine, herbal or otherwise

b) we'd all be hundreds of years old (I mean hundreds, not A hundred).

a. My point exactly, we don't need vaccines or medicine, herbal or otherwise ideally, if we use our body's own medicine
b. like I said, death is part of life, not a disease. Just because we don't get sick doesn't mean that we don't die. That is a whole other ballpark.

There IS something in the body that attacks disease, though. It's called the Immune system. Which brings me back to vaccines…

Vaccines literally train your white blood cells to recognize and destroy certain invaders. They don't chemically enhance the white blood cells to be in a frenzy for a few hours. That'd be dangourous.

As for drinking water in Peru etc, thank those white blood cells.

I know how the immune system works, I know about antibodies and white blood cells. I know about the lymphatic system. I know about the ph level of the blood. I know all about this. I know how antibodies are formed by exposure to a virus. That is the concept of vaccines. With a healthy immune system you don't need to train lymphocytes to attack invaders, they do it naturally.

Also, vaccines don't make anyone weaker down Generation Road.

We don't know that, we will have to wait and see. But it is also likely that viral mutations are happening that will render the vaccines ineffective. Just like roaches become immune to roach poison. Viruses fulfill a niche in the ecosystem, weeding out the weak. Not that I like that, but that is the way nature works.

And asprin dosen't damage the liver, the NHS says opposite:

An aspirin a day could help prevent liver damage caused by obesity, heavy drinking and drug use.

I am talking about a person following a healthy lifestyle, who is not damaging the liver in other ways first. Ironically, a glass of beer is good for the liver also, if it is already damaged. If you have a healthy liver, then a glass of beer won't make it more healthy, but less, same with aspirin. Of course the liver is the fastest healing organ in the body so it is OK to take an aspirin for a headache, but better to take white willow bark tea. But not a big deal, either way.

Diabeties, heart disease and most cancer can't be treated by vaccines, why?Because they aren't caused by a disease-causing micro-organism. Most of those three are caused by poor lifestyle choices, such as smoking and eating a bunch of fast food.

Exactly! My point as well. But it goes beyond just fast food and smoking.

You're missing on good medical care. You're also saying that you would favour a herbalast that may not know what to do to a doctor, degrees and all.

But I don't get sick. And an herbalist will find out what to do, or I will. But I don't get sick. I would, however, go to the dentist if I had a cavity or another issue. I have never had a cavity though. I had to get a wisdom tooth pulled though. That is something I would go to the dentist for.


Now for the mothering bit:

Doctors just want you to make it less painful. And they only perform ceasarian when it is painful for the baby to come out.

Not true.
If they wanted to make it less painful they would let the woman move around, squat, etc. instead of putting her on her back with her legs up in stirrups. Also, they would not rush her so that they can get it over with and go to the next patient. Actually, just watch this clip:

Buisnessmen generally try to sell you stuff, even when it's not needed. Doctors don't try to sell you stuff, espically when it's not needed. At least not a real doctor, anyway.

I beg to disagree

Some piccies of Eagle nests I found on Wikipeida were made of what looks like wood. Unless herbs look just like tree branches.

They are built with sticks, an eagle cannot lift a tree branch, and where the eggs lie they are lined with aromatic herbs. And yes, many aromatic herbs are woody. Aromatic herbs keep bugs away like lice, ticks, fleas, mosquitos.

Where from? A little something (it may be common sense) tells me that it is likely to be fibs. Dangerous ones.

OK, 10-15%. I didn't remember that figure when I posted it above. That is why I said "something".

PS I am still insulted by your jab=ignorance comment.

Did I say that? I can't find where I said that. If I did, I am sorry, don't take it personally, I am not calling you ignorant. There is lots that we don't know, we are all ignorant about many things. But I can't find where I said that. If you are referring to the quote where I said that people who get sick with the measles don't know how to protect themselves with herbal medicine, well, that is not meant to call anyone names like ignorant or anything.

People get so offended on this forum as if they are being personally attacked! Especially in ED! Relax people!

This is the point when people start taking things personally that I get discouraged and give up on trying to share my opinion or knowledge.

People are very sensitive about being perceived as ignorant, aren't they?
We have different areas of knowledge! Nobody knows everything!

Originally Posted by Scatterbrain

Also, 80% of them brushed their teeth regularly. I think we might be on to something here.

This response doesn't make sense to me.

He's implying that correlation doesn't automatically mean causation.

People who get the swine flu or the measles or polio from not getting vaccinated don't know about herbs and a healthy immune system.

Edit that bit out and I will be happy.

EDIT: Actually, it's disease-from-not-having-jab=ignorance. Worse, methinks. Why? Because nobody decides to have the disease, although mabye the vaccination.

Also, what about the possibility of having a strong immune system? A friend had the school attendance record in primary (6 years or something). One time I asked her her secret and she said they were just lucky. On the flipside, I get colds SO OFTEN!!!

We don't know that

One example will be enough:

Edward Jenner did his famous expirment in 1796. Nearly 200 years later, the vaccine was declared extinct by the WHO. Did the virus mutate? probably not. Did the people become weaker? I don't think so.

They are built with sticks, an eagle cannot lift a tree branch, and where the eggs lie they are lined with aromatic herbs. And yes, many aromatic herbs are woody. Aromatic herbs keep bugs away like lice, ticks, fleas, mosquitos.

And the herbs- where are they?

Humans don't have to die from disease. If you never ever get sick you still die when it is your time when you get old, but not from a disease.

Very few people die from getting old. The top 4 causes of death are:

Heart disease
Cancer
Stroke
Respiaroty disease

Two say they are diseases. The third is cancer. (I'm not surre if stroke counts).

And the oldest person was a French woman. France is (if my geography is correct) far from India and nearby.

a. My point exactly, we don't need vaccines or medicine, herbal or otherwise ideally, if we use our body's own medicine

If I took out a dictionary (I can't be bothered) a medicine would be said as something like:

'a chemical that either cures a problem or makes the sufferer feel better'. Unless you mean antibodies (which vaccines help produce). But it probably isn't that. So what is the body's medicine?

b. like I said, death is part of life, not a disease. Just because we don't get sick doesn't mean that we don't die. That is a whole other ballpark.

So why can't sombody live off their own medicine to, say, 150. I never said death was impossible. Just that more people would be really old.

With a healthy immune system you don't need to train lymphocytes to attack invaders, they do it naturally.

Alright. Let's say somebody dosen't get the MMR jab. A few years later, he contracts the disease. He's got a healthy immune system. However he isn't one of the lucky ones. Measles parylisez him and he is confined to a wheelchair for the rest of this life. ‘Smooth move’ he probably says. ‘I rejected two shots and now I'm stuck here’.

If he had the jab, he would not have needed to be stuck in a wheelchair.

Exactly! My point as well. But it goes beyond just fast food and smoking.

How?

watch this clip

No thanks and I'd like to see who made it. Not everything is true on there. Or on somewhere called 'somewhere off the Internet'. Then I may watch.

I beg to disagree

How?

OK, 10-15%. I didn't remember that figure when I posted it above. That is why I said "something".

I don't believe it. For a start, only a few people die due to vaccines. I'm not sure about medicine but it may be similar. But not one in 10 persons.

People are very sensitive about being perceived as ignorant, aren't they?

Just don't say that cuz I had the jab I don't know about lifestyle etc.

Also, your ‘herbs are 100% safe 100% efficitive’, well, they're not. Herbs DO have side effects and are not 100% successful, just like Western medicine.

OK, yes herbs have side effects if you take the wrong ones or the wrong dosage. An herbalist needs to be educated. There are poisonous herbs also, so I will agree with the spirit of your criticism of my statement that herbs are always safe.

No thanks and I'd like to see who made it. Not everything is true on there. Or on somewhere called 'somewhere off the Internet'. Then I may watch.

If you watched it you will find that it is clips from a movie called "the Business of Being Born". And you cannot say what is or isn't true on there unless you watch it. What do you have to lose?

Alright. Let's say somebody dosen't get the MMR jab. A few years later, he contracts the disease. He's got a healthy immune system. However he isn't one of the lucky ones. Measles parylisez him and he is confined to a wheelchair for the rest of this life. ‘Smooth move’ he probably says. ‘I rejected two shots and now I'm stuck here’.

If he has a healthy immune system he won't contract the measles!!! He will be exposed perhaps, but he won't get the disease! His immunse system will take care of it with its strong leukocytes and his immune system will get even stronger!

Just don't say that cuz I had the jab I don't know about lifestyle etc

. I said that people who don't get vaccinated and end up getting sick don't know about keeping their immune system strong with herbalism, nutrition, and lifestyle, etc. So this doesn't apply to you. Don't twist my words and take them personally. Pay attention.

The top 4 causes of death are:

Heart disease
Cancer
Stroke
Respiaroty disease

Yes, people die from diseases, obviously, nobody is arguing that. I am saying that people don't need to get sick, people don't need to get diseases. But they do, but they don't need to. There is such thing as taking care of your health. Health is a smooth balance of all systems in your body and a happy mind.

The herbs are in the eagle nest where the babies are. Do you know what sage, rosemary, etc. looks like? It dries out you know, but it still is very effective. Cats eat grass to stay healthy, would you like to see a picture of it?

I think that a lot of the misunderstanding is that you may be getting confused between curing a disease and preventative treatments with herbs also.

The body's own medicine is.... I'll give you a hint, it has something to do with antibodies, and growth hormones. And it is sterile.

Herbs and stuff obviously can help. A lot of medicine comes from naturals sources after all, so it shouldn't be a real shock. The body needs the right vitamins and stuff to work correctly, so eating the correct things go a long way in helping you fight off diseases. If your body needs vitamin B to fight off a sickness, then obviously eating something high in vitamin B would help you fight off the sickness. This is why herbs and stuff do work.

That said, there is no such thing as dying from 'old age'. You can't die from being old. You die because some critical body function failed on you. If your heart is to weak to work and suddenly quits on you, you can hardly say you had a strong healthy heart. A healthy person doesn't die. When you die its because you were unhealthy in some way.

Senescence is the term for the aging of body tissues after maturity of an organism. There are herbs that reduce this, but nothing, including western medicine knows how to stop the aging process. Of course you could say that all death is caused by the heart stopping pumping blood to the brain. This gets tricky because we are bringing up causation into the issue. The senescence of the heart, however, is different than heart disease. Many seemingly healthy people have died peacefully in their sleep in their old age, which is how I would like to go. This is different than a heart attack in which the electrical pulse that cues the heart to beat in the right rhythm gets disturbed and starts spazzing out. An defibrillator works by resetting this electrical pulse to the correct pulse.

There is no such thing as dying of old age because of how we attribute causes to death. And old age is not a cause. The cause in this case of dying of old age will always be called heart failure, which is due to senescence which is programmed into our DNA and not a disease. It would be interesting to isolate the gene that is responsible for this and to change it, if that is morally ok. I haven't thought about the morals of it deeply.

I see that we are getting off topic, but I like this new topic. I will need to start a topic on natural medicine or natural healing, etc. What forum should I put it in?

Also, for the record Bill Gates wasn't promoting harmful vaccines, or anything of that sort. I actually looked up the entire video for it, and he doesn't go into details about it, so I can see where the confusion would come from. You need a little background information and it makes sense.

He was talking about lowering the population increase, by making everyone live longer, and reducing child mortality. Basically the poorer the country and the higher the child mortality rate, the higher the birth rate is. This is because you have to have a lot of children, because more of them will die. The more children you have the better chance one of them will reach adult hood. This is why in poorer countries families have far more children than in rich countries. In rich countries people have less children because the risk of losing multiple children early on is significantly reduced.

So that is why having very good health coverage and significantly reducing the death rate in children, should reduce the number of children born, and thus the population will grow by a smaller margin.

I kind of thought that he either misspoke or there must have been some kind of confusion.

. I said that people who don't get vaccinated and end up getting sick don't know about keeping their immune system strong with herbalism, nutrition, and lifestyle, etc. So this doesn't apply to you. Don't twist my words and take them personally. Pay attention.

I do nutrition and lifesyle etc and still get the common cold! I got swine flu last year too! Are you saying people shouldn't get ill?

A healthy immune system can still get ill, but a strong iummune system may not. However a healthy immune system CAN fight off most diseases without dying. A healthy person may not be able to lift 50kg, but a strong person may be.

The cause in this case of dying of old age will always be called heart failure, which is due to senescence which is programmed into our DNA and not a disease.

A large perportion of heart disease is caused by poor lifestyle choices. Anyway, why would it be programmed to fail after x years? What is the advantage?

Actually, just watch this clip.

Two seconds of it told me it was going to be one-sided. Another thirty proved my prediction.

Well, yes, the video has a message. It is put out by people advocating for the right for women to have their babies at home, something that is illegal in many states. So it is fair to be one-sided in this situation when you are trying to educate people about a repressive situation where the medical institution have hijacked something that is not a disease, not a sickness, not something that needs to be cured. This is new. Doctors have only recently been the ones delivering babies. If you have had a baby in the hospital you might know that how the video portrays it is accurate. If you have had a baby at home you might know that how the video portrays it is accurate. I know many midwives who have delivered thousands of babies, midwife teachers etc. and less than 1% have had to take their client to the hospital. The teacher that I know (she is in her 60s) has delivered thousands of babies since 1970 and she has not had to take one client to the hospital, not one cesarean. No complaints about pain. She knows what to do during complications. She has delivered babies both legally and illegally in the U.S. and in Peru. Now she just teaches. Compare that track record with a typical doctor's who delivers babies in a hospital.

Anyway...

YEs, the body tissues age and break down after sexual maturity because once an animal reproduces it isn't needed anymore. Many animals die as soon as they reproduce, like many insects and fish etc. Mammals stay alive a bit longer in order to raise the young. Nature is efficient that way.

I guess we got confused between a healthy immune system and a strong one. To me they are the same. So I hear what you are saying. I mean that if your immune system gets compromised and you get sick with a cold, then it isn't healthy. But you mean that it could be healthy, just not strong enough. So I will use the words strong immune system from now on.
Another thing to know about getting the cold and things like that is that getting sick is a way for the body to get rid of toxins it has accumulated from food, the environment, etc. in order to expel them through mucus etc. Just like if you eat something bad you will throw up or get diarrhea. If you live in a city and breathe a lot of smog, well, it is like smoking cigarettes, and you will get sick in order to cleanse all the smog out of your lymphatic system.

A lot of people are allergic to different foods without even knowing it. I had psoriasis or eczema my whole life. As a child my mom brought me to the doctors and they gave me a cortisone cream that caused cancer in lab rats. It would help a little bit, but if I stopped using it my eczema would come back even worse. I stopped using it. Later in life I found that sunshine made it go away but in the winter it would always come back. It wasn't last year that it dawned on me that I am allergic to something I am eating. Through trial and error I found out that it was dairy that I am allergic to. I quit eating dairy and my eczema disappeared, my hair got thicker with no split ends, I look younger, have more energy, etc. Allergies compromise the immune system and liver function and vitamin and mineral assimilation. Many skin conditions and sinus problems and things like chronic fatigue syndrome are actually caused by allergies to different foods. But I don't think doctors are either educated about it or they aren't interested, they just treat the symptoms. Doctors go to med school and then they graduate. A good doctor will keep studying, but most will just study the information the pharmaceutical companies give them about their new products that treat certain symptoms.

But that is the whole issue, is the symptoms are not the cause of the disease or the sickness, so treating the symptoms doesn't actually cure the disease. IF the disease goes away from treating the symptoms it will come back some time. The underlying cause of the disease might be lifestyle, stress, habitual wrong attitudes or thoughts or emotions, etc. For example, people with short tempers are more likely to have high blood pressure and heart problems. People who are bitter at life are more likely to get cancer, etc. People who are have chronic stress are more likely to develop ulcers. The healthiest thing to do is to be a completely happy content person.

I am an atheist but I know that one of the healthiest things for the body is to have a strong faith in something Divine. That is why people like Mother Theresa and Saint Francis and many others can live with lepers and treat lepers without catching leprosy. Kind of like how placebos work very good is by the power of faith also. If you have faith in the medicine it will work even if it is just a sugar pill.

So fear is not a healthy emotion to have; I think that goes without saying. And being afraid that you will definitely catch the the flu if you don't get vaccinated might make it more likely, whether you get vaccinated for it or not. Having faith that your immune system will operate correctly the way it is supposed to do as long as you treat it good and pay attention to it will pay off.

Nutrition can be very complicated, and what makes it even more complicated is that there are different body types with different metabolisms with different needs. Some people are sensitive to food combinations and need to be aware of not combining carbohydrates with proteins, others can handle it fine. Some people will need to eat more salmon or evening primrose oil or flax oil if they have dry skin conditions. I had to when I had eczema to keep in under control. Many people eat too much protein (especially since the Atkins Diet fad) which makes their blood have a acidic PH which weakens the immune system. Negative thoughts and feelings make the ph level more acidic also.

YEs, the body tissues age and break down after sexual maturity because once an animal reproduces it isn't needed anymore. Many animals die as soon as they reproduce, like many insects and fish etc. Mammals stay alive a bit longer in order to raise the young. Nature is efficient that way.

What is the point of that? The longer an animal lives, the more broods it can have. Most animals only breed in spring. The mor springs it lives through, the more children it can have.

I guess we got confused between a healthy immune system and a strong one. To me they are the same. So I hear what you are saying. I mean that if your immune system gets compromised and you get sick with a cold, then it isn't healthy. But you mean that it could be healthy, just not strong enough. So I will use the words strong immune system from now on.

The immune system's top proity is to defeat the virus. It dosen't care about not looking strong. And somebody getting a cold, noses and all, that dosen't mean the immune system is unhealthy. It is just doing its job.

Another thing to know about getting the cold and things like that is that getting sick is a way for the body to get rid of toxins it has accumulated from food, the environment, etc. in order to expel them through mucus etc. Just like if you eat something bad you will throw up or get diarrhea. If you live in a city and breathe a lot of smog, well, it is like smoking cigarettes, and you will get sick in order to cleanse all the smog out of your lymphatic system.

Colds, diahhorea etc are caused by microbes. The body, however, does use mucus to get rid of colds, you are right there. But diaheaer is a side-effect of having the microbe. The effect due to smog is the chemicals causing harm.

Allergies compromise the immune system and liver function and vitamin and mineral assimilation.

Allergies are when the immune system attacks a harmless chemical.

But I don't think doctors are either educated about it or they aren't interested, they just treat the symptoms. Doctors go to med school and then they graduate. A good doctor will keep studying, but most will just study the information the pharmaceutical companies give them about their new products that treat certain symptoms.

Symptoms are side-effects of the body doing its job when a microbe attacks or what the microbe does. Anyway, treating the symptoms CAN make the disease more berable while the immune system works.

But you say that because…?

The underlying cause of the disease might be lifestyle, stress, habitual wrong attitudes or thoughts or emotions, etc.

You fergot the microbe.

For example, people with short tempers are more likely to have high blood pressure and heart problems. People who are bitter at life are more likely to get cancer, etc. People who are have chronic stress are more likely to develop ulcers. The healthiest thing to do is to be a completely happy content person.

The only way the mind affects the body in sickness is:

Fear or stress triggering too much fight-or-flight.

Why would bitterness cause cancer anyway? That makes no sense.

That is why people like Mother Theresa and Saint Francis and many others can live with lepers and treat lepers without catching leprosy.

Leprosy isn't very infectious.

So fear is not a healthy emotion to have

Fear is a perfectly healthy emotion to have, just not too much of it is healthy. Why? Because if you weren't scared of a hungry monster running through town (and therefore do your shopping), you'd be lunch.

I think that goes without saying. And being afraid that you will definitely catch the the flu if you don't get vaccinated might make it more likely, whether you get vaccinated for it or not. Having faith that your immune system will operate correctly the way it is supposed to do as long as you treat it good and pay attention to it will pay off.

Story Time:

Once upon a time, last year, reports started coming out of a new strain of flu called Swine Flu. Boy I was scared! But you know what, I didn't get it!
Fast forward about six months. Six months is a long time. I had almost fergotteren about swine flu, and defiantly wasn't scared. But what has happened? I was feeling ill and had decided to make camp on the sofa! I had swine flu!

Need I say more?

Many people eat too much protein (especially since the Atkins Diet fad) which makes their blood have a acidic PH which weakens the immune system. Negative thoughts and feelings make the ph level more acidic also.

Why would that be?

EDIT: Although health in the mind is as important as health in the body, they do not intertwin as much as you think. Being a happy person is better than being a grumpy person, but the grumpy person will not get cancer more than the happy person.

EDIT 2: A couple of links saying the placebo is subjective, false or harmful:

http://www.skepdic.com/placebo.html
http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/09-05-20/

The second one is quite recent; it was only written last year.

A healthy person can get sick, they just bounce back quickly. My mother gets the flu vaccine every year, and every year she gets the flu any way, and normally is really sick for like a week. I have never gotten the flu vaccine, and I rarely get the flu, and when I do I get a slight fever and a headache, I ache a little bit and I am fine the next day.

I was going to comment on leprosy the last time you brought it up, but hgld is right. 95% of people are out right immune to leprosy, and then its very difficult for the people who are not immune to catch it as well. Also, modern medicine can cure leprosy in many cases.

I generally agree that I think a lot of doctors are incompetent, and I really dislike vaccines. I think the flu vaccine is just trash and junk, its totally worthless. However if I contracted something like leprosy, you better bet I would go see a doctor, instead of taking herbal medicine.

I will probably not get the flu vaccine until it may cause problems (the flu).

However there is reason for the MMR; measles is infectious and can kill.

Well, that is good news about leprosy! How do people get it and why did they put them all on their own island?

Yeah, the more springs you live through the more litters you can have. Turtles live a long time and lay eggs every year, but, it seems that the longer a creature lives the more likely it will die in an accident or something or get eaten by another animal so Nature must think that it is more efficient to focus on reproduction than longevity.

The links you posted are one-sided, so I won't look at them. Just kidding.

Actually they are slightly biased, bit the second link looks at what the placebo effect CAN do as well as can't. The first is a bit one-sided.

Also, why wouldn't animals live for a few breeding seasons? Evoloution will probably have refined a lot of animals to live for at least a couple of seasons, and produce a lot of children in each season. Take a mammal for instance, a rodent perhaps. She can only give birth to x amount of babies in that time, nothing more, sometimes less. Would it not make sense if the rodent can live to have more litters? Yes, it can get eaten, but animals have defense too. And most animal accidents have happened after we humans invented cars and glass etc. BTW, Nature is not a person or god controlling animal evoloution and behaviour and does not decide ‘reproductiveness or longivity?’ An animal can have both.

And given one hour, older animals are not more likely to get eaten than younger animals. It may be the opposite if younger means juvinile. Unless the old animal was showine effective signs of aging. There are only less old animals than young animals because the older animals have lived the longest.

Howeever, what has animal repoduction got to do with vaccines?