Thread: Homosexuality, how can it not be considered an abnormality?

Originally Posted by dajo

We are subjected to the evolutionary process as well - behavior is also quite different from cancer growth.

Actually Cancer is not Abnormal Either in fact Cancer is the result of Natural Selection for a Cell to become Autonomous.

I thought we were talking about mankind, not individual cells. The part does not equal the whole--nor is it greater than the whole.

A wise man once said, 'a house divided against itself cannot stand.' That is a principle of grammar.

Originally Posted by dajo

You missed this



There seems to be an evolutionary benefit from homosexuality that occurs quite often in nature.

Aggreed, How else would you explain the actions of the BONOBO monkey, a species that makes a habit of rubbing their parts together just to say hi! Be they two male monkeys or two female.

in a way homosexuality could be seen as the human species trascending their evolutionary roots.
instead of following biological impulses, these people are loving who they choose to.

Originally Posted by substanceD

in a way homosexuality could be seen as the human species trascending their evolutionary roots.
instead of following biological impulses, these people are loving who they choose to.

So homosexuality is a choice?

Originally Posted by Spartiate

So homosexuality is a choice?

A soul chooses to incarnate as gay to increase human kind's overall spiritual enlightement.


Discalimer: The preceding is the opinion of the poster and not Dreamviews.com

Originally Posted by ethan_hines

A soul chooses to incarnate as gay to increase human kind's overall spiritual enlightement.


Discalimer: The preceding is the opinion of the poster and not Dreamviews.com

Something more scientific please...

The funny thing is, individuals do not evolve biologically; only species do. There is no good or bad, but only what furthers the species. The vast majority of bees do not reproduce, but they promote the propagation of their genes by doing things that aid the queen, who shares those genes and does reproduce.

Cancer is neither good or bad. To say so would be like saying a trees genes are bad since they caused it to grow too tall and break.

Homosexuality is part of our species, and many others. Cancer at least could be argued to be on the rise due to our habits and may cause a problem for the species. Homosexuality has been part of humanity for as long as our records show, and doesn't appear to be changing at all in frequency.

Originally Posted by Thatperson

This was breifly covered in the gay marriage topic, but to keep that thread on topic I thought I'd post here.

How can some people not accpet that homosexuality is an abnormality I don't mean abnormal as in uncommon. I mean abnormal as in a malfunction. I'm sure most would consider beastiality or mechanophilia as abnormalities but why not homosexuality? I'm not questioning the morality of homosexuality here, just from a biological viewpoint i'm saying.

Look:

This probably doesn't account for everybody, but some homosexuals are homosexual because they have a gender identity crisis.

Wouldn't that be a mental "defection", even if it doesn't harm them?

I don't dislike gay people, but I don't find it normal.

Originally Posted by UsernameTheRand

Look:

This probably doesn't account for everybody, but some homosexuals are homosexual because they have a gender identity crisis.

Wouldn't that be a mental "defection", even if it doesn't harm them?

I don't dislike gay people, but I don't find it normal.

This is not true for the vast majority of homosexuals.

Originally Posted by Philosopher8659

One does not need to reproduce to survive?

Im assuming the rest is you and dajo's argument, so....no, one does not? many people live their whole lives without having kids even in straight marriages.

when the side you are arguing with puts the point across that

Cancer is natural

and

Cancer is neither good nor bad

You just give up.

Yes. Yes. Yes. I know that technically cancer is 'natural' due to cause and effect, and I know good and bad do not have objective meanings.

But you know sometimes you've just gotta stop being a smart alec, and live in the real world for a second, where people consider cancer a bad thing and unatural thing.

Originally Posted by Thatperson

But you know sometimes you've just gotta stop being a smart alec, and live in the real world for a second

Yeah I'm sure that's what a lot of people said when they thought the world was flat. It's not about what people consider, it's about how likely things are to be true based on evidence. I hate to judge you based on this but you seem biased towards ignorance. People tend to think cancer is a bad but natural thing because it causes the suffering of individuals and suffering is something we are hard pressed to will upon ourselves. Similarly many people think homosexuality is bad because they are irrationally disgusted by homosexual activity, and unnatural because they are unable to explain it. And as you know, disgusting doesn't exist in an objective sense (and you began this debate with talk of some psychological or biological malfunction causing homosexuality, which is objective and scientific). and being unable to explain something because of mental limits doesn't make that thing inexplicable.

A soul chooses to incarnate as gay to increase human kind's overall spiritual enlightement.

LOL. The discussion actually did need to be lightened up a bit. Thanks for that.

Originally Posted by Thatperson

when the side you are arguing with puts the point across that


and


You just give up.

Yes. Yes. Yes. I know that technically cancer is 'natural' due to cause and effect, and I know good and bad do not have objective meanings.

But you know sometimes you've just gotta stop being a smart alec, and live in the real world for a second, where people consider cancer a bad thing and unatural thing.

Alright, lets take a step into the real world, where cancer and homosexuality share nothing in common except the fact that they are both features of biological life.

Your "cancer is bad and abnormal and homosexuality is abnormal too and therefore bad" is the weakest strawman argument anyone could possibly come up with, and you are right to give up.

When I say cancer is neither good or bad, I am talking biologically, not morally or whatever other standard that people base their opinions of it on, just like you were claiming to be doing in the OP. Disease, cancer, viruses are all part of evolution. They don't hurt species, and often times aid them to adapt more quickly. What you don't seem to be getting is that when talking in terms of biological evolution, individuals do not matter. Individuals getting cancer, being reckless and falling off a cliff not reproducing because they've taken a vow of celibacy or not reproducing because they are homosexuals do not have any real effect on the evolution of the species at all, for good or ill.

Let me just make this last point clear, if you claim that homosexuality is bad because homosexuals rarely reproduce, then whatever influences people to become priests is also bad because priests rarely reproduce.

Originally Posted by UsernameTheRand

Look:

This probably doesn't account for everybody, but some homosexuals are homosexual because they have a gender identity crisis.

Wouldn't that be a mental "defection", even if it doesn't harm them?

I don't dislike gay people, but I don't find it normal.

Gender identity and sexual orientation are two different topics. Your gender identity does not define your orientation. Someone with "gender identity crisis" can be heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual, pansexual, asexual, this- and that-sexual, etc.

I know this girl at my school who wants to be a guy. She isn't attracted to women, though.

Homosexuality exists in other species too. Perhaps it is nature's way of preventing overpopulation.

Originally Posted by ethan_hines

A soul chooses to incarnate as gay to increase human kind's overall spiritual enlightement.

... your stupid.

Normal. Abnormal. Unnatural.
Disease. Mental condition. Flaw. Difference.
Mutation.
Are you comparing Homosexuality to [Insert pretty much anything, because homosexuals hate it when you draw paralells to anything.]

This is all I hear.
Why are everyone battling on wording? It's all the god damn same.
Most of the arguments from OP's side are completely pointless and worthless, and most of the counter-arguments are only there because homosexuals were forced to find "positive" sides of homosexuality, to "convince" all the anti-gays.
All in all, this thread sucks. Sexuality tends to not make any sense at all. Why would people be attracted to dead bodies? Trees? Children? (Oh yes, I am comparing now.) None of them make any sense, and none of them have any real (reproductive) use in the world.

It's all the god damn same.
All of these kinds of discussions annoy me so much. People are arguing furiously for and against, when there really isn't anything to argue about in the first place.
Because you can only agree, it only depends on how you as an individual view it. Mutation, flaw, difference, abnormality - Makes no real difference which word you use.

Originally Posted by Maeni

Normal. Abnormal. Unnatural.
Disease. Mental condition. Flaw. Difference.
Mutation.
Are you comparing Homosexuality to [Insert pretty much anything, because homosexuals hate it when you draw paralells to anything.]

This is all I hear.
Why are everyone battling on wording? It's all the god damn same.
Most of the arguments from OP's side are completely pointless and worthless, and most of the counter-arguments are only there because homosexuals were forced to find "positive" sides of homosexuality, to "convince" all the anti-gays.
All in all, this thread sucks. Sexuality tends to not make any sense at all. Why would people be attracted to dead bodies? Trees? Children? (Oh yes, I am comparing now.) None of them make any sense, and none of them have any real (reproductive) use in the world.

It's all the god damn same.
All of these kinds of discussions annoy me so much. People are arguing furiously for and against, when there really isn't anything to argue about in the first place.
Because you can only agree, it only depends on how you as an individual view it. Mutation, flaw, difference, abnormality - Makes no real difference which word you use.

I think your view is a bit limited. You are listening to the words and not the music. One is looking at how people use words, to what degree they register in their mind. The topic is not the issue. One has to read Plato in the same way. Listen to the music, not the particular song. Kosh

When you watch words, you watch a psychology in action. Through history, you can watch the ego, once bigger than creation itself, slowly getting smaller and smaller, until one day it disappears. A wise man once said, if one wanted to be master one must be a servant. If one wants to be master of life, of understanding, of truth, they must serve it. It was also the meaning, that a particular person was the most humble of all.

Awareness diminishes in anger.

You're going to have to put that in a more understandable way.
Sorry.

Look around you. You see hundreds of movements, passions, etc., people trying to change the world--like ants pissing on a forest fire. What is the one thing at the heart of it all?

The mind of man is very young. It is learning to be a craftsman. It will not happen in our life, nor in many more to come. One cannot make anyone do anything--at least with any effective results, but one can, provide things in the environment--toys the children will learn from--to learn the craft from.

Have you not noticed, that in lucid dreaming, when one has a real emotional problem, they are not told what is right or what is wrong, they are simply given an environment where they learn to change their reaction. An environment is provided, but the choices are still ours.

And so it is with words. One simply puts them in the environment, the choices to pursue their understanding is up to the reader.

I'm kinda shocked this topic even exists gosh, Everywhere in nature you see animals displaying homosexual or other behaviors not deemed 'normal' by most religious or confused people. It isn't abnormal because its everywhere and nobody can stop that, not with the harshest words or the most violent torture aka what mormons call 'curing' people who are gay, Nothing can stop nature.

You can't hide your true self and you have to be who you are regardless of anyone else, if your gay be gay don't pretend to be straight....etc..

You are addressing more than one topic. However, the assumption that there is no ideal for man to strive for is more destructive than what ever has happenend to date.

Many people, in their naivete, claim that there is no such thing as an 'ideal' being quite incapable of referring to a synonym 'standard.'

They use to use leeches to 'cure' people, would anyone think that simply taking the attitude "oh, just let them die" would have led to medicine today?