Originally posted by bradybaker

Please, someone prove me wrong. Someone, please show me some logical thinking and not just a categorical denial of our obviously valid points.
This is not the way I normally put things but..lets me try if the more..err, atheist way?

Is has been researched and concluded that the largest part of the population has for a main goal in life (or among other goals) for them and for their loved ones (and more idealistically, all people aswell) to be happy and find fulfilment. Regardless of what they might believe on a higher level everybody wants to be happy. Neh? Nobody wants to be sad, depressed, an emotional wreck and die knowing your life sucked balls.

Now, psychologically speaking it has been proven that also very large large majority (if not all people) require love and kindness from others to be happy. There might be a person here or there that claims that he does not need the love and the smile of others around him (with love I mean it in a very broad sense, romance, friendship, compassion, acceptance, trust and so on and so forth, love for your fellow soul, or men if you so prefer) but I dont believe them. And I think deep down inside they are not that happy at all and they will not spend their entire lifes claiming this, they will give in at some point and their life will, have sucked balls.

As you can see if we humans require love (again in a very broad) to make the most of out life. And any normal minded person would want everybody to make the most of their lives, yes? BEcause everybody has the right to be happy. Now, certain individuals, like me, search for ways to increase this love so we, and everybody else can be a tiny bit happier in life. And for some people, like me, a spiritual view on things helps enhance this inner love even more. Love itself (and Im not talking about the chemical in your brain when you fall in 'romantic love' which is a coutner argument I could expect, compassion is not a chemical) is godly to me. God is love, jezus is love, buddha is love, whatever.

I do not claim to know how the universe works. But I do know that my ratio and my own logic and brain tell me that love and compassion and such are the primary values we humans NEED to survive. When all our fancy technology would disapear, when all our belongings would be gone, when all our fake appearences would be stripped, this is all there really is, what we can rely on, eachother. Would you not agree that this is something we need, so would you not agree that is only logical for me to search for ways to increase the love? (silly statement but you get my point). And if it happens to be that certain spiritual views can help me with that, is it then not a rational thing to do to make those part of your belief system. It would be very irrational to use a little axe to chop down a tree while there is a chainsaw nearby, even if you dont know for 100% if that chainsaw will be real in the end, it does the trick. Because almost every single religion preaches those things at its core, and I like to put a 'face' to things, a representation, but that doesnt mean I literally beleive in them. As I dont 'love' because I am a buddhist, I am a buddhist because I 'love' (Im not a real buddhist, but yeah)

I hope you are starting to see where I am coming from, looking at it in a way where no 'higher spiritual something would exist with 100% certainty'. Im sure you still think Im being fairly illogical, but I did my best haha ^_^"

I still wonder though, why are some atheists (or similar minded) bothered alot sometimes by 'relgious' people? I mean..if you believe everything ends after death, that what would it matter anyway? Why not shrug and live your life the way you want it and be happy? I can see though that some people might enjoy debate on this, or they might be annoyed with other people's 'ignorance'? Or they might feel annoyed because of people telling them how very wrong they are and they will 'burn in hell' or such. Just wondering