Thread: When Will It End?

Actually that is part of reason I brought up the subject of people uploading stuff. The vast majority of people who get caught, and sued are people who upload. Its true that it is really not worth the effort to sue someone who downloaded a game. However it is worth it to sue someone who uploaded a game that a 1000 people then downloaded. Since you can sue them for 1000 times the price of what you sell.

As for it being practical to put things like codes on the back of CDs and stuff, I am sure it is very practical. Even if there are ways around it, it probably stops a bunch of people. Not every one is that motivated, or capable of finding code breaking software that actually works.

Originally Posted by Alric

Actually that is part of reason I brought up the subject of people uploading stuff. The vast majority of people who get caught, and sued are people who upload. Its true that it is really not worth the effort to sue someone who downloaded a game. However it is worth it to sue someone who uploaded a game that a 1000 people then downloaded. Since you can sue them for 1000 times the price of what you sell.

As for it being practical to put things like codes on the back of CDs and stuff, I am sure it is very practical. Even if there are ways around it, it probably stops a bunch of people. Not every one is that motivated, or capable of finding code breaking software that actually works.

It isn't about breaking software to gather the code. It is a code in the Manuel provided with the specified CD that essentially gives access to the software. Isn't preventive unless someone is retarded. Anyhow, I agree with you on how suing is handled.

Sure it is, since most people still are not motivated or capable of finding a way around it. If you do something like buy a game then take it back to the store to try to get the code for free, well that destroys the argument that it doesn't hurt any one. Since it costs money to restock things returned, and because you are harming the person who buys the game next time.

Originally Posted by Alric

Sure it is, since most people still are not motivated or capable of finding a way around it. If you do something like buy a game then take it back to the store to try to get the code for free, well that destroys the argument that it doesn't hurt any one. Since it costs money to restock things returned, and because you are harming the person who buys the game next time.

Actually, that depends or how corporations like Wal-Mart handle their merchandise. Restocking costs pennies. Alternatively, it is most likely labeled as defective and written off. Wal-Mart receives no lose, neither does the next customer because the CD is replaced. Now the company that sells the CD may hurt, but then again, they are most likely already ripping customers off due to charging $50.00+ a game. There is a certain degree of morality at play, but the question is who is ripping off who.

This could branch out to a completely different argument as in work ethics and how people don't do their job, yet still get paid the same.

Piracy is symptom.

DRM's are often built into the game's coding itself, which can be edited with a hex editor. For a lot of hackers, cracking games, software, and even music and video protection is just a measure of how great their hacking skills are. CD keys are virtually universal at this point, but don't do a damn thing anymore except make consumers put in a long code. Each DRM is a bit different...Halo used a patch, I think. Adobe was cracked by disabling phone home by editing a system file, then using any number of product keys. Brute force keygens, though virtually obsolete and extremely rare, make good last resort tools. DVD DRM's have been broken by commercial software. Patches are the most common I've seen, and usually entail overwriting one set of files for another set of modified files. The ACII patch was effective at disabling the online play requirement...you know, the DRM thought to be the end of all DRM's. The one that basically ensured nobody got a full copy of the game at any one time. What every DRM to date has done is slow down pirates, but has not stopped them. That is because there are a good number of bored kids skilled at programming with nothing better to do than to embarrass big corporations. Given this fact, why are there still CD keys?

And Alric, I actually agree with you on how suing ought to be handled. Of course...an unintended consequence of that may be that more people take up coding and programming and learn how to break the games themselves, virtually free of risk. Practical applications would be software trials, or burning modified game disks for your friends.

Just because something doesn't stop all people, doesn't mean its not worth using. Even a poor measure could make the company thousands of dollars. So obviously their going to use it, because it stops a lot of people. The average person isn't going to take the time to hack the code of a game to play it.

It takes about 5 minutes to down a keygen or google a serial number. In all honesty, who is going to have a physical copy of the disk and not the key that goes with it? Your friend who you loaned the disk to? Even then there are perfectly legal ways to dupe customer service and get a second key. If a person is bent on playing a game without paying for it, they're going to do it, by god.

I've heard of far more problems with people losing the key or being unable to use the same key twice. This is especially problematic after having to format the hard drive or upgrade the OS. And what happens when the company drops support for the game after so many years? Are people supposed to just accept that they paid good, hard-earned money for something they can never use again? This system punishes far more paying consumers than it stops pirates.

And yeah, the average person won't take the time, but if you have more people learning how to code and program, you have more people that can attack any new DRM at any given time. Nothing is going to be 100% pirate proof.

Well if people weren't stealing it, they wouldn't have to take such measures. You can blame them for pirating it.

Though i suspect the real reason people hate the codes and stuff, is because its makes them feel more guilty. People can make all sort of excuses of how downloading a game isn't morally wrong. Though hacking the game or looking for a code to play it, just makes it feel so much more like stealing.

Originally Posted by Alric

Well if people weren't stealing it, they wouldn't have to take such measures. You can blame them for pirating it.

Though i suspect the real reason people hate the codes and stuff, is because its makes them feel more guilty. People can make all sort of excuses of how downloading a game isn't morally wrong. Though hacking the game or looking for a code to play it, just makes it feel so much more like stealing.

I find the hacking experience to be the best part of all. It makes me want to get a hex editor and take up programming. I want that kind of power. It's all a game to me. Morally, I know it's wrong, but I really don't care. Guilt is wasted on me.

Piracy isn't going away any time soon. It is simple enough for me to get past the weak protection. But for people who absolutely insist on playing by the rules, or who don't know what a keygen is, or don't want to take the risks, these failed DRM's are nothing but a hassle and a nuisance. They basically criminalize innocent gamers, which isn't right.