Curious to know if 'breaking the fourth wall(?)' counts as some level of lucidity.

**Cairus** · 07-20-2010 11:21 AM

It isn't uncommon for me, in my non-lucids, to 'pause' the scene happening within a dream, to talk what's going on, or mull over the symbolism. For a recent example, I was having a sci-fi dream where I was in 'borderline hostile enemy territory' with someone I know in WL acting as a military commander DC, and I 'paused the dream' to talk to the DC 'OOC'ly to discuss the symbolism and implications of the dream with them. Would this be considered some level of lucidity as well? Feel free to share like experiences, and your thoughts on them. Thanks!

**Supernova** · 07-20-2010 02:51 PM

Concious control. That's all that matters.

**Jakku** · 07-20-2010 03:17 PM

I would consider the "awareness" that you're dreaming as being the moment just before lucidity could occur. It's as if you're trying to tell yourself something isn't right here, but instead of becoming lucid, you slipped back into a non-lucid dream.

**jasonresno** · 07-20-2010 03:54 PM

I don't really think so. Within the confines of your dream anything can happen and, possibly, within the confines of this dream your dream self wanted to talk like that.

*shrug*

**Cairus** · 07-20-2010 04:04 PM

Originally Posted by jasonresno

I don't really think so. Within the confines of your dream anything can happen and, possibly, within the confines of this dream your dream self wanted to talk like that.

*shrug*

Hey, thanks for responding. The thing is, doesn't that mean that even when I become aware and start manipulating the dream actively, I could also 'just have had a dream that I had control of the dream'?

Where do you draw the line, here? Because if there isn't one, then nobody's 'lucid' or has control, they're just 'dreaming that they are/do'. Which is kinda circular.

**jasonresno** · 07-20-2010 06:11 PM

Originally Posted by Cairus

Hey, thanks for responding. The thing is, doesn't that mean that even when I become aware and start manipulating the dream actively, I could also 'just have had a dream that I had control of the dream'?

Where do you draw the line, here? Because if there isn't one, then nobody's 'lucid' or has control, they're just 'dreaming that they are/do'. Which is kinda circular.

To be perfectly honest: I have no idea. After I responded to your post I started to think about it more. And then I got a headache.

This stuff is nuts

.

And a side note: Is that supposed to be Roland Deschain in your avatar?

**Cairus** · 07-20-2010 06:36 PM

Usually when I 'pause' dreams, I end up bitching out the person I'm popping out of character with, i.e., 'God, I can't tell you these things in person, because you wouldn't listen! You're such a pissant! It's no wonder I keep having nightmares about you! I told you not to press the button, but of course, you had to go and press it, didn't you?! I bet you would in real life, too! You ASSHOLE!' et cetera. I'll often pinpoint someone I know in WL who is playing a DC to vent at them the things I bottle up.

And no, but that's a pretty shweet guess. It's the coverart for Fable II; http://www.holyfragger.com/images/wa...r/423_1295.jpg A man kneeling over water, his reflection a demon.