Thread: Where does the subconscious reside?

Originally posted by Syntex


Essentially all those things, such as Freudian consciousness and other explainations are just that, an explaination. There just theories, no one has proven what consciousness is and how all this has come into play. All I'm describing is just a theory as well, it all depends on what you currently believe in. *

I could be completely wrong, that the mind has origin other than the brain and you could be wrong as well. And even so we could both be right, it could be part of the brain and metaphysical. Who the hell knows, I'm just trying to state it's a possibility.

It's very possible that either of us can be right, but I have one VERY reliable thing going for me, that is, unfortunately, not so for you - science.

As for social conditioning, I believe it is a big part in who we are. Think of it as this: If there is a child who is told everyday that he'll never be good enough, that his memory sucks, and that he is dumber than all the kids... inevidably he'll accept that, and there-by become what they've told him he is. And therefore the reverse is true, is someone is given confidence and the right \"brainwashing\" they'll most likely have alot better memory.

I believe those with photographic memories are not easily influenced by social conditioning, because their memory is independent of confidence in one's self, it comes more from their enhanced ability to simply see the memories easily, without restriction.[/b]

Sure, that's possible. But there's a big difference between what you describe and turning a human's mind into an accessible library.

I'll also tell you why I believe the mind is independent of brain functions: What's more hopefull to believe in? That we are just physical and fleeting, our brain is our limitation? or that our minds are not bound by space and time, and that our body is just a vessel? *
[/b]

What does it even have to do with hope? Do you judge the universe surrounding you solely by the level of joy it brings you? If there are things you don't like in this universe, you ignore their existence solely because they're unpleasant? That's very egotistic of you. Regardless of whether you think it's \"hopeful\" or not, there can be only one objective truth, and I'd rather strive to understand it than to subscribe to self-illusion.

If you believe our minds our physical, there is little hope for you, especially if your right.

If you believe our minds are metaphysical, There is much greater hope, and if your wrong, there is no dissapointment...because you'll be dead.[/b]

Actually, I don't see what's so cheerful about being \"metaphysical\". This would mean that such horrible concepts such as ghosts and the devil actually exist, not cheerful in the least! I'd rather be \"confined\" to my comfortable material existence, thank you.

False hope sometimes, can be greater than no hope at all.

Why believe the brain is physical? If you do, you could be limiting yourself... because the brain is limited.
If you believe the brain is not physical, (if your wrong) it won't hurt anything (if your right) you'll be alot less limited, by the parameters of physical means (such as if you believe your memory is physical and decays with time... then your not really helping your memory are you?)[/b]

Because I do not determine my beliefs on the basis of whether they're pleasant or not. I determine them by how closely they fit the facts. It disturbes me the things people base their beliefs on. Maybe you should believe you are God and the universe was constructed solely for you, just because it makes you feel better with yourself?

[quote]
Thats just my line of reasoning in it, And if they ever prove our mind is soley in the brain, and can explain exactly how it works, Then I will change my views occordingly. But since right now I have a choice, I choose the metaphysical mind

-Daniel






You have a choise, yes, between something more likely, and less likely. There is more evidence towards physical mind than towards metaphysical mind. And "proof" is a meaningless concept. Even the theory of GRAVITY is just a theory, did you know that? It was never "prooved" true. Yet you don't doubt that gravity exists? Theories are never proven, that's not what they even strive to achieve. A theory that fits the observed facts better is considered the correct one.

[/quote]Where you could be wrong is where you have failed. You cannot disprove as well as prove organized religion yet.[/quote]

Can you disprove that there is a pink unicorn in my garage that secretely manipulates the entire world and humanity into eventually evolving into 7 meter tall squids dressed like balerinas? You can't, therefore it's true.

Consider this a valuable lesson in Burden of Proof ™.

*and I apologize about the double post*

argh, too much to read.. so i'll just state my belief.

I'll put it into computer terms.. that'll be easiest. I like to think of the brain as a huge Input/Ouput device.. thats all its job is. The consciousness of a person is not contained in the brain, which is why it would make sense that OBEs are possible, and remembering things from past lives (for some people... there will be skeptical ones).

There was a student that went to a college some years back, and there was a study being done.. (i think in maryland.. i cannot remember for sure).. well they noticed this student had an unusually large head, so they ran scans on him.. Turns out that over 95% of where there should have been brain matter, there was spinal fluid. A thin layer of brain tissue lined the inside of his scull.. Now, even missing this much of his brain, the student was remarkably smart and went through college with good grades and managed to earn a degree. I forgot, but his IQ was 140-something..

It makes you wonder though.. wouldn't it make sense for a person missing 95% of their brain, to be incapacitated or stupid? Well, it shows something.. the brain attaches us to our senses, and basically to this world.. without it we would just be a consciousness, without a body.. I suppose this is what is meant by soul. It makes sense.

But i dunno.. I've researched a bit on this, and its very interesting.. that people can have half of their brains taken away, and only suffer physical problems (that can recover in many cases). This should open up more discussion... that or start a flamewar .

argh, too much to read.. so i'll just state my belief. [/b]

I second that.

.. so i'll just state my belief. [/b]

From what I read on page 1 and some of page 2, this is exactly what you are arguing about - beliefs.

None of you can prove your opinions, except for the basic principals of the brains -

Can you disprove that there is a pink unicorn in my garage that secretely manipulates the entire world and humanity into eventually evolving into 7 meter tall squids dressed like balerinas? You can't, therefore it's true. [/b]

Some of you have extremely abstract ideas based on where your "mind" or various parts are stored.

Bringing the idea of "souls" into it is ludicris - souls are widely believed in, but provide no evidence whatsoever to support ANY claims, as noone knows the properties of these possibly existing phenomena. Same goes for OBE's, which could be hallucinations or non lucid dreams braught on by the way most people "induce" them.

Noone really knows ANY of this stuff, so I fail to see why this is such an arguement.

Well thats my 2 cents... sorry if I rambled or went off on a tangent through that.

lol, this is great... controversy.

First off, when someone believes in something it's perfectly alright. When someone has faith in something, thats when it gets nasty. You start to make your belief fit around all the facts and aren't looking for truth.

The simple thing is there is only two choices, you believe the world around isn't what it seems and that even a can of coke YES can be metaphysical, that nothing really exists accept in your mind. Or that things are just as they seem, a bunch of atoms that exist for no reason at all. We give meaning, because we percieve this reality (no not because we're higher and want to be a on pedistool). Science is all about saying "if you can't detect it, it's not there" and those who believe in something are simply saying "just because you can't detect it, doesn't mean its not there."

As for me choosing to believe that our minds are more than our brain, I do this not to put myself higher than everything else (by the way i think everything else is more than it seems too, even that can of coke.) I do this because it doesn't limit me, WHY LIMIT YOURSELF? once you do you have to stop there... but if you allow yourself to keep going, you'll find the truth of the real limit. Science could use a little open mindedness... just because you don't have evidence, doesn't mean you can't explore the possibility.

By the way don't make this turn into a disput about souls and God, thats faith, all I'm stating is a choice in theory. I don't claim something exists (like the metaphysical world) I'm simply claiming its a possibility and I choose to accept it as a possibility of choice.

You people have had lucid dreams, surely you can see how real they are compared to this world? The only difference is in your minds.

I'm not saying i'm right without a doubt by any means (thats what religious people do). Look, I like science and logic, in fact I consider myself a very analytical person, I can see the mind being inside the brain... BUT I'M skeptical... SHOOT ME.

-Daniel

I think you may have misunderstood me... probably my fault - let me clarify:

I dont believe either of the two main views expressed here - I believe that I do not understand the brain and mind, and I don't pretend to.

I am not saying belief is a bad thing - hell, it is what keeps most of us sane. I am saying that you are arguing (debating?) your beliefs, which i see as being a bit... strange. Its like two people from different religions trying to convince each other that theirs is superior.

Also, I have no intention to turn this into a religious dispute, but its the only thing I could think to reference to.

No harm meant.

TheUnknown: So you're saying the brain merely connects our mind (which is akin to a software?) to this world and body via our senses? That means that the following things: memories, and feelings, all come from our mind, or "soul", right? (since, well, you said yourself that some people remember their former lives, thus memory must be stored in a non-physical medium). So, let me get this straight for everyone. Are you claiming that human memory and human feelings cannot be altered by tampering with your physical brain? Think carefully before you answer.

Syntex: Well, the problem for that group of people who, quoting yourself, say that "just because you can't detect it, doesn't mean its not there", is that they have ABSOLUTELY NO WAY of determining what is out there, if they have no means of detecting it. Consider my Pink Unicorn example: you have no way of determining whether it's true or not, since you have no way of observing said unicorn. Yes, now that I've told you about its existence, only NOW you have a choise of either believing in it, or not, but it's not relevant. How can you determine what exactly that unicorn does, how it looks, how can you approve its existence without OBSERVING it, in one way or another? Phenomena that are impossible to somehow observe are meaningless by default, since they could just as well be a figment of our imagination. There is absolutely NO difference whatsoever between the concepts of metaphysics and the Pink Unicorn. Both are impossible to ovserve, both are meaningless concepts. Thus, even if something out there exist which is inobservable (and there IS definetly a possibility of such), it would be completely pointless to speculate on its nature, right until it can somehow become observable.

In light of this, there is absolutely no reasons to take these imaginary figments into account when determining your opinions or world view. I hope you've learned why we should "limit ourselves" (otherwise, feel free to build a shrine to the Pink Unicorn in your room).



And just for the record, I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. As far as I'm concerned this debate is just harmless sport.

Having had all that said I am more confused thatn when I started.

Where does the subconscious reside?
Is it safe to say we do not know!?!

Exactly, we don't know, we all just have opinions. Most of us agree though, that its not a single thing.

SO THE ANSWER: WHO THE HELL KNOWS...

Also wicked, No I still see no reason in limiting ourselfs...

-Daniel

how about i say.. one person created all this reality.. and it could be any one of you.. even me. That all of us were just thought up in another's dream?

What would you say to that? Its not impossible, not even improbable.

I did what I could, i stated my personal belief, but since I have not died and seen what happens after that, I can't see the world from the outside, whether its illusionary or not.

My, my...how we dive into the philosophical...

Good postings. I am new this forum, but I have been thinking about this topic for nearly 30 years now. I think if we start to consider our brain to be one of many, then the concept of a subconscious mind starts to make sense.

The prefrontal cortex is where your logic mainly happens, when you sleep it is deactivated normally which is why you don't think about giant, angry, rainbow, flying, supersonic hot dogs being abnormal. And when lucid dreaming occurs the prefrontal cortex is reactivated a little which is why you can think normally and be conscious when LDing. Your subconscious seems to think logically also so I guess if it is a real thing, it'll reside all over your prefrontal cortex.

not sure about the brain parts, other than i hope that i have one

the explanation of what we call "subconscious" has to be within all of us, we need to develop language to describe it simple terms

Hey, guys. This thread is over 10 years old and none of these members are active anymore. Posting in old threads is called necroposting, which is against forum rules. If you want to discuss this topic, please start a new thread.

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