Originally posted by voidofform
maybe enlightenment is more related to \"loving what is\". * the whole dissociated thing doesn't have any value i think.

i feel if i could learn to love *everything*, *the butterflies, the bombs, the flowers, the psychopaths, the sunsets, rape, war, the stars, the shadows, the colours, sulphur dioxide, *everything*, i would be closer to enlightenment.
You view is a venerable old way of looking at it. the Ancient Sages used to say about the same thing -- about loving everything and everybody -- that is, before they would purchase a secluded hermitage out in the jungle or up on the side of some remote mountain where everything that would be available to be loved would be of their specific and careful choise. So it seems that those who had popularized such philosophy may have been a tad disingenuous about it. As I said, it is an aged philosophy. It has largely been replaced by the higher ethical Mystical Views of Catholicism in the West and Mahayana Buddhism in the East... oh, and Zoroastrianism in the middle who may well have been the originator of the view that a good Mystic did not have to condone Evil for the sake of getting by in the world. Afterall, isn't your indiscriminate Love for Evil, War, Hatred, and Bigotry... just so you can retain your undisturbed peace of mind... isn't that all an effective condoning of everything that is demonic. Certainly every Catholic Saint, Sufi Saint (Zoroastrian), and Mahayana Buddhist Saint who shown with the Bliss and Grace of God, certainly they all proved that one can be Enlightened without surrendering to the very Devil.

We only need to see your view at work. Marcus Aerilius was both Emperor and Rome and a Stoic Philosopher, and the Stoics, like the Taoists and the Hinayana (small wheel) Buddhists largely believed in just what you are saying -- make no judgements and embrace everything. Suspend all guilt and compunction as averse to their most precious of all things -- Peace of Mind. So Marcus Aerilius was a virtual monster on the throne. He thought the Catholic stance on morality was inimical to the amoralism of Pagan Stoicism and so quite lightheartedly engaged in one of the worst major persecutions before God would finally get sick and tired of these stoics and us Supernatural Intervention in order to give the Western World over to a Catholic Emperor.

One may wonder what the attraction of Amoralism is? Well, we only need to look at modern Conservativism. They don't call it Amoralism. They call it FREEDOM now. It comprises the condoning of every form of usury, exploitation and the legalization of corruption and the recasting of bribery as Freedom of Expression, allowing Corporations to openly purchase politicians. We can look at some of Conservativism's big election issues. It might cost money to fund Universal Health Care, and so screw sick people and let them die, and elect Conservatives to protect us from any Call to Charity or Humanity. Then we have the interests of War. The only Industry that is still solidly healthy and secure from imports from the Developing World, is the Weapon's Industry where secrecy requires all major weapon's systems be domestically manufactured. To keep such an industry healthy, the weapons must be expended from time to time. This requires that Enemies be singled out. The process is all quite Amoral... well, except for the moral component. Much Hatred is appealed to as you Amoralists drum up Wars for your convenience. It is called "letting loose the Dogs of War". Presidents who tell lies in order to advance their interests should worry a bit more that people may actually believe them. After the immediate goals of their Wars have been achieved, do we not still retain all of the hangover of residual hatred and ill will? For instance, the American Public has been steadily conditioned to hate Islam -- to equate Islam with a broad and vaguely defined 'Terrorism' which oddly enough is never applied to Israel who in hundreds of instances have targetted for murder civilians who simply oppose the wrongful occupation of Palestine (recently they shot a missile from a helocopter, killing a cluster of people in the street in order to get what they termed a 'Terrorist Leader" -- the young man was only 24 years old. What "Leader" is only 24 years old? ), or at least people in the West are lead to suspect Islam of ingrained malevolence. Now, how will that ever help in the Cause of World Peace and Unity?

And it doesn't help that people who profess a certain air of Spirituality stand by a condone such behavior. Such Valueless Mysticism went obsolete two thousand years ago. I guess you didn't get the memo.