"Breaking" through lucid dream/level

[dreamstudent123]

Whenever I become lucid LATELY, it is first that I realize I am dreaming, but that doesn't necessarily triggers 'lucidity'. When this happens I have to really try and make a lot of effort to break through this kind of invisible mental wall to (more?) lucidity. It's a really weird feeling. It's not the same when you are thinking that you are 'possibly' dreaming and doing an RC (Like nose-plugging) and are confirmed that it is a dream and become lucid. It is like I become lucid (because I fully know that I'm dreaming) but only on a superficial level... On this moment I am not semi-lucid, because I KNOW I'm in a dream and my body is lying in my bed. So: 1) Realizing I'm in a dream 2) Becoming lucid 3) *This really weird feeling that I could break this kind of mental wall to lucidity to a more physical level. But this is really hard to do. And if I don't do this quick enough I let myself lose lucidity because it is so tiresome. Most of the time everything turns black after this. I feel like there is an 'extra' layer of lucidity to break. Like when I become lucid i'm on Standby-lucid and for powering ON-lucid I have to really mentally try hard to turn the switch. In these lucids it is like I have 2 options. Trying really hard and continue being lucid OR the more easy one, just losing lucidity and letting my conscious mind drift away again into non lucidity. I know this looks a lot like becoming lucid and in the process of the dream end up non lucid again or not having stabilized too much, but the difference with me is that this process happens CONSCIOUSLY*...This is much different if I compare it with my old lucids where I feel that I'm losing control throughout the dream and end up non lucid unconsciously (because I already explored the dream and been lucid for a while) Maybe this sounds a bit weird or hard to understand, because for me it is also weird and hard to understand why this happens...I just wonder if someone has had the same experience or if anyone has some kind of solution for this... Thanks for reading in advance

[dolphin]

Have a goal you want to carry out in your lucid dream. If you remember your goal in the lucid dream and keep striving to achieve it, you'll remain lucid effortlessly. Imagining yourself carrying out the goal a few times before falling asleep will help you remember it.

[duke396]

I think I know what you mean, I've had a few dreams recently where I knew it was a dream but I didn't do anything about it. I just continued on in "auto pilot" mode except with the added bonus that nothing really mattered... I used to get these really vivid and euphoric lucid dreams and I think part of the difference is what you do when you first realize it. I used to always do something to assert my lucidity like doing a reality check even though I'm already sure, or trying to teleport/fly, or even just yelling out to the world that I'm lucid and that would seem to propel me into this mental high. After a while I think I stopped doing that and would just accept it and move on, and it may be hurting the experience. I recently started having LDs again and for the most part they seem more dull, less controlled, etc.

[dreamstudent123]

Thanks for replying! It is true that (because I'm frequently lucid dreaming now) that I have neglected the stabiliazation part a bit...So maybe if I will work on that again the problem will fade away. I really hope it does because it's really annoying to say at least. Hopefully your lucids will be become more clean again and you'll regain control again, good luck!

[Voldmer]

I've had a few dreams recently where I knew it was a dream but I didn't do anything about it. I just continued on in "auto pilot" mode except with the added bonus that nothing really mattered... I've experienced the "auto pilot" mode quite a few times also. I'm speculating that it might be caused by a low dopamine level in some (for dreaming) important part of the brain at that point in time. Low dopamine is known to cause lack of initiative, and therefore difficulty setting actions in motion. If that theory is correct, then it might be possible to counteract it through ingesting foods, or supplements, that increase dopamine levels. For example Mucuna pruriens, L-tyrosine, nettle infusion etc.

[duke396]

Thank you I'm getting there. Before, I had longer lucids with good control but they weren't very often. Now since getting back into it I'm having more frequent ones that are much shorter but with less control it'll work itself out though I'm sure. Hopefully the stabilization will help. I think we get to where we don't have to stabilize in order to keep the dream from fading or losing lucidity altogether, and we forget all the other aspects of the dream that it helped at the same time (vividness, boost of awareness, etc). I'm gonna try to beat it into my head so I remember to do it too. I'm so easily distracted in dreams, lol.

[duke396]

Interesting, have you had a chance to test that at all? I might be willing to play guinea pig.

[Voldmer]

I'm conducting a long series of experiments (one per night), using myself as the test subject, with so far over 250 individual experiments. The variables are amounts of various herbs and supplements ingested before, or during, the night. And I quantify the outcome in terms of lucidity attained, etc. The experiments have been carefully documented. However, I have not yet turned the raw data into a data set ready for modelling (which is my goal), so I can't say much specifically about what works, and how. But there are some rather clear patterns emerging, and one of these is that the combination of B6 and L-tyrosine is very strongly correlated with attaining lucidity (for me, that is), if taken at WBTB time. I have not got a clear feeling about the level of control obtained in these lucid dreams, so I have to abstain from speculating about that. Eventually, I will have a proper statistical model ready, at which point I can say a lot more. In my experiments, the dose of B6 is 121 mg, and the dose of L-tyrosine is 500 mg. There are quite a few things, that are said to increase dopamine levels. For example Omega-3, Ashwagandha, St. John's Wort, Vitamins B6, B9, and B12. And - most prominently - L-tyrosine and Mucuna Pruriens. My experience with Mucuna is very limited, and so far not at all positive. This may, of course, be due to a poor quality brand, rather than to Mucuna itself. B6, on its own, certainly has a beneficial effect on dreams (for me), as it increases dream recall pretty dramatically.

[duke396]

That's quite a bit of experimenting. After reading your last post I saw B6 (50mg) at a store and bought it, and have taken one the past couple nights before going to sleep. I haven't noticed anything major but I was planning to up the dosage in a few days. From what I understand anything >100mg a day can cause negative effects with B6?

[Voldmer]

I would suggest you postpone taking B6 until WBTB. As far as I understand, B6 is virtually used up after 8 hours, so taking it before bedtime would probably be quite wasteful. The maximum effect of B6 occurs after less than two hours, I believe. I'm not aware of any other negative effects of B6 with increasing dosage other than its toxicity for the nervous system. 200 mg seems to be a generally accepted maximum dosage per day, and longer term daily use of this amount is probably bordering on dangerous. As I only use it for WBTB, and as I value my sleep, B6 nights for me take place during the weekend only - normally, at least. Earlier this year I used 50 mg B6, and that also had quite evident results (basically tripling the amount of text in my DJ, relative to a non-B6 night).

[duke396]

Okay, I read that it stayed in your system for quite a while (but no specific number of hours in what I was reading) so I just figured it would help me if I took it about 20 minutes before bed. I think in the future I'll try it during one of the times I naturally wake up. And actually, looking back I can tell a pretty big difference. I took 50mg before bed for two nights (the second night with about .25-.35mg of Melatonin), and 100mg the third night. Each night I easily remembered quite a few dreams, including something similar to the "still frame" dream that someone mentioned in another thread as a result of taking Melatonin for REM suppression / rebound. I wasn't fond of that and didn't notice the rebound effect I was going for so I ditched the Melatonin. The last two nights I haven't taken anything and my dream recall seemed more vague. I didn't want to jump to the conclusion that it was the B6 at first but 3 nights of good recall is evidence enough because lately I usually have a night of really good recall followed by a night or two of fragments or not much at all, followed by good recall again. As a personal rule I'm not going to take more than 100mg in one night just to be on the safe side, but it's nice to have a reference point. Anyway I'm not wanting to take over this thread or anything but I appreciate the pointers. I'm going to do a bit of research and decide what I want to combine that with to aid the lucidity part, and I'll probably pick up some of the L-Tyrosine that you mentioned as well since it seems like as good a starting point as any.

[Voldmer]

I've looked more into Mucuna Pruriens in the last few days, and it appears that B6 weakens the positive effect which Mucuna might otherwise have had. Since L-tyrosine is a precursor of levodopa (which is the dopamine-increasing part of Mucuna Pruriens), it is not inconceivable that B6 weakens the effect of L-tyrosine also. Personally I have, as mentioned, had good results from combining the two, and I suspect that the time-lag involved in going from L-tyrosine to levodopa plays a part. Green tea is said to combine particularly well with Mucuna Pruriens, and I will test green tea with both Mucuna and L-tyrosine in the coming days and weeks.