How to awaken during sleep for obe4u method / what to do mentally while awake

Hi,
I wanted to know what to do for step 2 of the obe4u method? I've tried having thoughts before sleep of awakening and nothing happens. I also have tried the practical alarm clock and it's awoken me fully instead of awakening me and me going back to sleep. Should I put the audio at a certain level below conscious hearing so I can go back to sleep once I hear it?
[Link Deleted]

Any advice?

Thanks.

Step 2 looks to be the wake back to bed (WBTB) method.

This is where you intentionally wake up earlier than usual, about 4-6 hours after sleeping normally, you get out of bed and walk around do something for 30 minutes, then try going back to sleep. When you are trying to go back to sleep, you also try to visualize the dream you want to create or just simply set the intention "I'm going to have a lucid dream now" or "I will have a lucid dream straight after I fall asleep". Setting an intention is a skill in itself, not as simple as just thinking it or saying it in your head. You have to put meaning and willpower into, similar to when we are trying to remember something, we create a memory in our brain to be recalled later and intention works in a similar way, creating a mental hook like etching it into your mind. The stronger the intention, the better it will work.

I'd suggest reading the techniques here on this forum first, they are more detailed and easier to understand and follow. The technique you are trying is somewhat similar to the WILD technique, which is fairly advanced and difficult especially for a first technique to try and use. 3rd step on that link you gave seems to be relying on sleep paralysis, which can be quite a random and fleeting thing to happen and not a guarantee upon abrupt awakening. It doesn't mention sleep paralysis, and might be possible to do what they suggest without sleep paralysis but is definitely easier to accomplish whilst in sleep paralysis.

The easiest and maybe one of the best techniques for lucid dreaming is DILD, using reality checks so it transfers into dreaming after becoming an ingrained habit in waking life. But I assume your aim here is to have OBE's instead of lucid dreams? either way, it's a good idea to practice both lucid dreaming and astral projection, and a good idea to become familiar with lucid dreaming before trying astral projection. Good luck, hope this helps.

I would just follow Eonnn's advice if it proves to be confusing for you. In any case, I will try to explain what Michael Raduga is describing there ...

The methods at obe4u can be performed without an alarm—especially if it gets in your way. What the page prescribes is the 'indirect method' which is sensibly deferred by about six hours of sleep. The alarm goes off and you wake up. You may get up, walk around, read about lucid dreaming, or visualise 'cycling through techniques' (such as observing images, listening in, rotation) as a rehearsal for what is to be performed only if a separation attempt upon the second awakening fails. After a few minutes, you return to bed and fall asleep with an intention that immediately upon the next awakening, you will try to separate from your body.

You can train yourself to recognise awakenings without movement so that a separation attempt may be carried out. If there is real movement upon awakening and no possibility of entering the phase state (LDs/OBEs), spend a minute cycling through techniques until a hallucinatory sensation arises to be amplified—once it peaks, attempt another separation. If it fails, 'cycle' again. If a minute is up, fall asleep with an intention to catch the next awakening all over again in order to subsequently separate if there is no movement.

Anyway, that is essentially describing several attempts at the DEILD method after sleeping, followed by attempting a WILD for roughly a minute, if the former fails, and then falling asleep with intention to catch the next DEILD opportunity.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Summerlander

I would just follow Eonnn's advice if it proves to be confusing for you. In any case, I will try to explain what Michael Raduga is describing there ...

The methods at obe4u can be performed without an alarm—especially if it gets in your way. What the page prescribes is the 'indirect method' which is sensibly deferred by about six hours of sleep. The alarm goes off and you wake up. You may get up, walk around, read about lucid dreaming, or visualise 'cycling through techniques' (such as observing images, listening in, rotation) as a rehearsal for what is to be performed only if a separation attempt upon the second awakening fails. After a few minutes, you return to bed and fall asleep with an intention that immediately upon the next awakening, you will try to separate from your body.

You can train yourself to recognise awakenings without movement so that a separation attempt may be carried out. If there is real movement upon awakening and no possibility of entering the phase state (LDs/OBEs), spend a minute cycling through techniques until a hallucinatory sensation arises to be amplified—once it peaks, attempt another separation. If it fails, 'cycle' again. If a minute is up, fall asleep with an intention to catch the next awakening all over again in order to subsequently separate if there is no movement.

Anyway, that is essentially describing several attempts at the DEILD method after sleeping, followed by attempting a WILD for roughly a minute, if the former fails, and then falling asleep with intention to catch the next DEILD opportunity.

---

Can you give more details about visualizing cycling techniques? The reason I'm asking is that I don't know if I'm visualizing the techniques right. Can you also give more details of awakening especially what's supposed to being going on in my head / how to awaken without an alarm.
[LINK DELETED]

Thanks.

No problem.

Since I am from Michael Raduga's School of Out-of-body Travel, I am going to do my absolute best to help you. You can also download the Phaser app or Michael Raduga's The Phase guidebook for free, which basically walks you through the practice step by step.

Tonight, go to sleep and wake up after about 6 hours. You may set an alarm or you may simply do it with an intension to get up around a certain time—this is known to work too! However you want to do this, once the alarm goes off after a good few hours of sleep you are done with it. The alarm has served its purpose.

Then you may use the loo or do something like reading about lucid dreaming. It is optional if you wish to imagine what it might be like to cycle through techniques if it comes to it and what you might actually experience. Then, after a few minutes, return to bed and fall asleep with an intention to separate from the body upon the first awakening.

Before I go to town on this, I really want you to carefully study this diagram which is an algorithm of action upon awakenings:

https://images.app.goo.gl/P3g7fSgEm6QuDBfCA

What you want is to reach the phase state because that is where the 'magic' is. The easiest way to enter the phase, which is recommended for every beginner, is the indirect method.

Pick three of your favourite techniques (e.g. phantom wiggling, observing images, listening in) to cycle through. The moment you have an awakening after sleeping, and there is no perceived movement, separate from the body immediately. Don't think too much about how it's going to happen or if you are doing it right—just do it! I used to roll over and 'out', starting from the head to find the rest of my phantom body following, but these days I just get up to find myself in the phase!

Movement is not imagined; really move as though physically, albeit without tensing your muscles. Just go for it like a machine, without thinking, without worrying that you might fail. Just move! If this is successful, congratulations ... You have just bypassed having to cycle through techniques as you are already standing in the phase.

Of course, if that doesn't happen, you can wait around, in a relaxed state, for images, sounds or vibrations to emerge—which shouldn't take long as you're brain is quite close to the phase state following an awakening. You alternate through techniques, spending a few seconds on each, until one begins to manifest. Stick with the hallucinatory sensation that manifests and amplify it. Once amplified, attempt another separation.

Visualisation is not different: here, you are actively trying to manifest vision with your eyes closed; you don't have to see anything initially—simply imagine or think about what you want to see until it becomes a convincing reality. Once it takes a life of its own, even if it's not exactly what you had envisioned, separate! If it's a dream scene, jump into it. Voilà: you are in the phase ...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Summerlander

No problem.

Since I am from Michael Raduga's School of Out-of-body Travel, I am going to do my absolute best to help you. You can also download the Phaser app or Michael Raduga's The Phase guidebook for free, which basically walks you through the practice step by step.

Tonight, go to sleep and wake up after about 6 hours. You may set an alarm or you may simply do it with an intension to get up around a certain time—this is known to work too! However you want to do this, once the alarm goes off after a good few hours of sleep you are done with it. The alarm has served its purpose.

Then you may use the loo or do something like reading about lucid dreaming. It is optional if you wish to imagine what it might be like to cycle through techniques if it comes to it and what you might actually experience. Then, after a few minutes, return to bed and fall asleep with an intention to separate from the body upon the first awakening.

Before I go to town on this, I really want you to carefully study this diagram which is an algorithm of action upon awakenings:

https://images.app.goo.gl/P3g7fSgEm6QuDBfCA

What you want is to reach the phase state because that is where the 'magic' is. The easiest way to enter the phase, which is recommended for every beginner, is the indirect method.

Pick three of your favourite techniques (e.g. phantom wiggling, observing images, listening in) to cycle through. The moment you have an awakening after sleeping, and there is no perceived movement, separate from the body immediately. Don't think too much about how it's going to happen or if you are doing it right—just do it! I used to roll over and 'out', starting from the head to find the rest of my phantom body following, but these days I just get up to find myself in the phase!

Movement is not imagined; really move as though physically, albeit without tensing your muscles. Just go for it like a machine, without thinking, without worrying that you might fail. Just move! If this is successful, congratulations ... You have just bypassed having to cycle through techniques as you are already standing in the phase.

Of course, if that doesn't happen, you can wait around, in a relaxed state, for images, sounds or vibrations to emerge—which shouldn't take long as you're brain is quite close to the phase state following an awakening. You alternate through techniques, spending a few seconds on each, until one begins to manifest. Stick with the hallucinatory sensation that manifests and amplify it. Once amplified, attempt another separation.

Visualisation is not different: here, you are actively trying to manifest vision with your eyes closed; you don't have to see anything initially—simply imagine or think about what you want to see until it becomes a convincing reality. Once it takes a life of its own, even if it's not exactly what you had envisioned, separate! If it's a dream scene, jump into it. Voilà: you are in the phase ...

---

I wanted to know if the technique can be done on the first awakening (the regular awakening) that is experienced daily? What I mean is the regular awakening you first do after a full nights sleep.

Thanks.

Gotcha.

Yeah, you can try. The idea to get up and move around is to reinforce enough wakefulness to take into your REM sleep when you return to bed in order to create the phase state. But there is no reason why you shouldn't try to take advantage of the very first awakening. If separation fails, you can fall asleep very easily—than you would have done by getting up awake for a few minutes—but then again, you can always grab the next awakening.

By the way, it could happen that you fall asleep and waking consciousness emerges whilst dreaming—in which case, all that remains is for you to employ deepening techniques and execute a plan of action in what is already the phase.

I wanted to know when I should stop drinking liquids so I don't have to use the bathroom during then night. I usually go to bed around 9/10pm.

Thanks.

That is a difficult one as it depends upon the individual and his or her metabolism. Some people have bladders like a pea, so to speak, you know what I mean? I wouldn't worry so much about that, though, because getting up to use the loo before an induction won't affect your chances. I do it all the time, in fact. After having slept for about six hours, feel free to use the toilet because when you next go down, you will have nothing but plenty of REM—fertile ground for lucid dreaming.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eonnn

Step 2 looks to be the wake back to bed (WBTB) method.

This is where you intentionally wake up earlier than usual, about 4-6 hours after sleeping normally, you get out of bed and walk around do something for 30 minutes, then try going back to sleep. When you are trying to go back to sleep, you also try to visualize the dream you want to create or just simply set the intention "I'm going to have a lucid dream now" or "I will have a lucid dream straight after I fall asleep". Setting an intention is a skill in itself, not as simple as just thinking it or saying it in your head. You have to put meaning and willpower into, similar to when we are trying to remember something, we create a memory in our brain to be recalled later and intention works in a similar way, creating a mental hook like etching it into your mind. The stronger the intention, the better it will work.

I'd suggest reading the techniques here on this forum first, they are more detailed and easier to understand and follow. The technique you are trying is somewhat similar to the WILD technique, which is fairly advanced and difficult especially for a first technique to try and use. 3rd step on that link you gave seems to be relying on sleep paralysis, which can be quite a random and fleeting thing to happen and not a guarantee upon abrupt awakening. It doesn't mention sleep paralysis, and might be possible to do what they suggest without sleep paralysis but is definitely easier to accomplish whilst in sleep paralysis.

The easiest and maybe one of the best techniques for lucid dreaming is DILD, using reality checks so it transfers into dreaming after becoming an ingrained habit in waking life. But I assume your aim here is to have OBE's instead of lucid dreams? either way, it's a good idea to practice both lucid dreaming and astral projection, and a good idea to become familiar with lucid dreaming before trying astral projection. Good luck, hope this helps.

---

Could you go into more detail of how to set an intention mentally? Also can you to into detail of making the intention work in the form of awakening multiple times during sleep? This is to Eonnn.

Thanks.

Can anyone give me what kind of material I can read about lucid dreaming so I can get a higher chance of lucid dreaming?

Thanks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by luffy28

Can anyone give me what kind of material I can read about lucid dreaming so I can get a higher chance of lucid dreaming?

Thanks.

---

Exploring the World of Lucid Dreaming by Stephen Laberge, Howard Rheingold.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MoonageDaydream

Exploring the World of Lucid Dreaming by Stephen Laberge, Howard Rheingold.

---

Which part(s)?

Thanks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by luffy28

Which part(s)?

Thanks.

---

Sure. Chapters 1-3 are the most important parts for learning how to lucid dream and increasing your chances. After that he goes into more advanced techniques (like WILD), and then into what you can do with lucid dreaming. The whole is great, and I recommended reading the whole thing. You will find that the act of reading about lucid dreaming increases your chances of becoming lucid. Also, just so you know, there's an audiobook version. If your local library uses Hoopla, you can get it for free through their online website. You just need a library card. Also, you can visit the thread on the book, as it was the book club's selection just a few months ago.

Here's the thread: https://www.dreamviews.com/general-l...r-october.html

Thanks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MoonageDaydream

Sure. Chapters 1-3 are the most important parts for learning how to lucid dream and increasing your chances. After that he goes into more advanced techniques (like WILD), and then into what you can do with lucid dreaming. The whole is great, and I recommended reading the whole thing. You will find that the act of reading about lucid dreaming increases your chances of becoming lucid.

---

Though I agree with everything else, I must take exception with one thing: WILD is not an advanced technique. Indeed, it isn't a technique at all, but the name for the transition to LD that happens when you don't lose track of your waking-life self-awareness as you fall asleep and enter a dream (as opposed to DILD, where you do lose track of it, and regain it during the dream). The techniques are the things you do, like WBTB, to induce or encourage a WILD, and I believe that those techniques are no more difficult (and often way easier), than the techniques meant to induce DILD's (like MILD). The myth that WILD's are harder than DILD's to achieve is just that; myth.

So read on, Luffy, LaBerge's whole book is worth your time.

Just sayin' :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sageous

Though I agree with everything else, I must take exception with one thing: WILD is not an advanced technique. Indeed, it isn't a technique at all, but the name for the transition to LD that happens when you don't lose track of your waking-life self-awareness as you fall asleep and enter a dream (as opposed to DILD, where you do lose track of it, and regain it during the dream). The techniques are the things you do, like WBTB, to induce or encourage a WILD, and I believe that those techniques are no more difficult (and often way easier), than the techniques meant to induce DILD's (like MILD). The myth that WILD's are harder than DILD's to achieve is just that; myth.

So read on, Luffy, LaBerge's whole book is worth your time.

Just sayin' :)

---

He's right, I always forget WILD isn't actually a technique, but a type of lucid dream. Still, you use techniques to have a WILD, and he has a chapter on that. I do think, though, that WILDs are harder for me than DILDs. And also, DEILD is easier for me. But everyone is different.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MoonageDaydream

He's right, I always forget WILD isn't actually a technique, but a type of lucid dream. Still, you use techniques to have a WILD, and he has a chapter on that. I do think, though, that WILDs are harder for me than DILDs. And also, DEILD is easier for me. But everyone is different.

---

I am going to agree with you in principle. Me and Sageous have been at this stuff longer than half of you have been alive and it is easy to forget what the first 5 years is like. DILD can be achieved simply by becoming fascinated with dreaming and starting to question your state of consciousness. WILD however requires a shift in head space akin to yogic meditation. That is a whole skill set that needs learned. Now in Sageous' favor, once you have gotten good at both WILD may in fact be easier. I say that because if you get up to a 1 in 4 success rate and try a couple times a night you get lots of results, as where DILD is kind of up to chance.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by luffy28

Could you go into more detail of how to set an intention mentally? Also can you to into detail of making the intention work in the form of awakening multiple times during sleep? This is to Eonnn.

Thanks.

---

Just read up on it if you can and try to study and analyze the own process you initiate within yourself whenever you make an intention.
I was trying to understand it myself, and also understand how memory works years ago and had to become aware of my thoughts and the internal process that takes place.

I only read a little about it, most of the learning came from self-education internally working it out. Purposefully try to remember something or intend something and then just be aware of what happens when you do this.
Like I said before, with memory we create a sort of "mental hook" which we latch onto later when something needs to be recalled. It's similar in a way with intention, it's like you're etching it into your mind or into reality somehow similar to a mental hook.
The stronger the mental hook or deeper the etching, the better it works. Intentionally planning to wake up naturally at a certain time is then easier once you understand it internally, create the intention before sleeping to wake up at 4am, and 9 times out of 10 you will.

Good luck.

I remember using the dreamsigns from exploring the world of lucid dreaming. I also was able to do the obe4u technique (this was back in 2011) and I had a very good erotic dream.

I wanted to know some online resources I can read in addition to exploring the world of lucid dreaming. Are there any google searches someone could recommend in addition to specific websites?

Thanks.

I've just joined Project Elijah and been sent my first set of instructions for an experiment. They are testing several techniques there in the name of science so that knowledge of lucid dreaming is refined. I'm about to test how good the 'diving headfirst' technique is for deepening the environment.

They also have a Project Elijah online school if you wish to refine your practice. If you want literature on it, you can also order a hard copy of The Phase: Shattering the Illusion of Reality or download the older version for free from obe4u.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Summerlander

I've just joined Project Elijah and been sent my first set of instructions for an experiment. They are testing several techniques there in the name of science so that knowledge of lucid dreaming is refined. I'm about to test how good the 'diving headfirst' technique is for deepening the environment.

They also have a Project Elijah online school if you wish to refine your practice. If you want literature on it, you can also order a hard copy of The Phase: Shattering the Illusion of Reality or download the older version for free from obe4u.

---

I have the newer version (the printed version from Amazon) and I have the free pdf. I think the free pdf is better in my opinion. I also wanted to know if I can awaken with an alarm after 4 and a half / six hours / seven and a half hours and try the techniques from obe4u?

Thanks.

Yes, the free pdf used to be called School of Out-of-Body Travel and Michael Raduga included a couple of my phase experiences in the book—you'll probably find them in the newer version under the name 'Arlindo Batista, UK'. I still own the old hard copy.

The author is a friend of mine and I used to head the Phase Managing Department of the OOBE Research Center besides moderating the OBE4U forum.

Yes, by all means try out the alarm at those times as long as the continuous sound of the alarm doesn't interfere with the practice.

Have you downloaded the Phaser App? It gives you access to three very useful seminars by Michael Raduga, with a crystal clear English voiceover.

I was going to send this as an email to the lucidity institute but their email isn't valid.

How to recall dreams while using an alarm app

Hi,
I have your book called Exploring the world of lucid dreaming. I wanted to know how I can recall dreams while using an alarm clock app. The app I use is called Alarm clock Xtreme. Last night I tried awakening with it (the app) and played audio upon awakening. Should I awaken without audio? Also, I set the alarm to sound for 1 minute and 45 seconds and it then shuts off.

Any advice?

-

This is the email I wanted to send to them.

Thanks.

Hi,
I wanted to know if I could set an alarm after 7 and a half hours? The reason I"m asking is that I usually sleep from 9 pm to 10 am. This is for exploring the world of lucid dreaming technique. I also wanted to know if I could recall dreams only on Saturday and Sunday since those are the days I have off?

Thanks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by luffy28

Hi,
I wanted to know if I could set an alarm after 7 and a half hours? The reason I"m asking is that I usually sleep from 9 pm to 10 am. This is for exploring the world of lucid dreaming technique. I also wanted to know if I could recall dreams only on Saturday and Sunday since those are the days I have off?

Thanks.

---

Hi Luffy,

I don't recommend an audio alarm for lucid dreaming. It has a tendency to destroy dream recall. I do recommend training yourself to wake up several times a night to record your dreams in a journal. An easy technique to set a pattern is to drink a lot of water before bed, and after each awakening. ;)

If you must use an alarm, I recommend a watch that does a very light beep sound or vibrates. Something not too intrusive. I also recommend trying to record as many dreams as you can throughout the week - although I know how hard it gets during the work week. If you just do it on the weekends, your recall will suffer, and you may find it difficult to remember your dreams. Even if it's just 1 dream a night, every night, that can make a big difference. :) For me, I prioritize dreaming and make sure I go to bed very early. Often around 9 pm, sometimes earlier! That way I give myself plenty of time to wake up, record dreams, even do a WBTB and still get enough sleep before work. It sounds like your schedule would allow for that, seeming as you get 13 hours of sleep a night (9pm-10am)?

Good luck!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by luffy28

Hi,
I wanted to know if I could set an alarm after 7 and a half hours? The reason I"m asking is that I usually sleep from 9 pm to 10 am. This is for exploring the world of lucid dreaming technique. I also wanted to know if I could recall dreams only on Saturday and Sunday since those are the days I have off?

Thanks.

---

I think 7.5 hours is ideal for your alarm if you are going to be able to sleep at least 9 hours. I set mine for 7hours 20 minutes, as I only sleep 8 hours on work days it is not as ideal as it could be. I have the alarm repeat every 9 minutes for 4 times. I agree with MoonageDaydream about recall. I would attempt to recall at least a small portion of a dream every night. You want to make your brain realize it will be called upon to remember dreams and also develop neural paths for that.

There is also an algorithm for the indirect method here which might help:

https://phasetoday.com/indirect-meth...tific-journal/

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Summerlander

Yes, the free pdf used to be called School of Out-of-Body Travel and Michael Raduga included a couple of my phase experiences in the book—you'll probably find them in the newer version under the name 'Arlindo Batista, UK'. I still own the old hard copy.

The author is a friend of mine and I used to head the Phase Managing Department of the OOBE Research Center besides moderating the OBE4U forum.

Yes, by all means try out the alarm at those times as long as the continuous sound of the alarm doesn't interfere with the practice.

Have you downloaded the Phaser App? It gives you access to three very useful seminars by Michael Raduga, with a crystal clear English voiceover.

---

I just need to know how to awaken during sleep for step 2. I'm going to try to listen to an audio so I can awaken during sleep.

Thanks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Summerlander

There is also an algorithm for the indirect method here which might help:

https://phasetoday.com/indirect-meth...tific-journal/

---

Thanks. I'll look at it. Already downloaded it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sivason

I think 7.5 hours is ideal for your alarm if you are going to be able to sleep at least 9 hours. I set mine for 7hours 20 minutes, as I only sleep 8 hours on work days it is not as ideal as it could be. I have the alarm repeat every 9 minutes for 4 times. I agree with MoonageDaydream about recall. I would attempt to recall at least a small portion of a dream every night. You want to make your brain realize it will be called upon to remember dreams and also develop neural paths for that.

---

I never considered doing it every few minutes after the 7 hour mark. I'll try every 10 to 15 minutes.

Thanks.

Hi,
I wanted to know some advice on what I should mentally be thinking to awaken in order to try the cycling techniques? I also wanted to know if it's just as effective to try step 2 straight from sleep so I can awaken during the night in order to do the cycling techniques?

Thanks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by luffy28

Hi,
I wanted to know some advice on what I should mentally be thinking to awaken in order to try the cycling techniques? I also wanted to know if it's just as effective to try step 2 straight from sleep so I can awaken during the night in order to do the cycling techniques?

Thanks.

---

It is best if you do not think. Relax and fall back to sleep. Stay aware by noticing the sensations happening and imagine you are dreaming. maybe picture yourself walking, or doing something common place or imagine flying, but that does not require thought. It takes practice.

Hi,
I wanted to know if I could sleep 7.5 hours? The reason I'm asking is that I usually sleep from 9 pm/10 pm to 9 am / 10 am.

Thanks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by luffy28

Hi,
I wanted to know if I could sleep 7.5 hours? The reason I'm asking is that I usually sleep from 9 pm/10 pm to 9 am / 10 am.

Thanks.

---

Not sure what you are asking. 7.5 hours is a great point to start your attempts.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sivason

Not sure what you are asking. 7.5 hours is a great point to start your attempts.

---

I was just asking if I could sleep 7.5 hours. Which is 7.5 hours after sleep. I might try 8 hours because I tried 7.5 and still went back to sleep.

Thanks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MoonageDaydream

Hi Luffy,

I don't recommend an audio alarm for lucid dreaming. It has a tendency to destroy dream recall. I do recommend training yourself to wake up several times a night to record your dreams in a journal. An easy technique to set a pattern is to drink a lot of water before bed, and after each awakening. ;)

If you must use an alarm, I recommend a watch that does a very light beep sound or vibrates. Something not too intrusive. I also recommend trying to record as many dreams as you can throughout the week - although I know how hard it gets during the work week. If you just do it on the weekends, your recall will suffer, and you may find it difficult to remember your dreams. Even if it's just 1 dream a night, every night, that can make a big difference. :) For me, I prioritize dreaming and make sure I go to bed very early. Often around 9 pm, sometimes earlier! That way I give myself plenty of time to wake up, record dreams, even do a WBTB and still get enough sleep before work. It sounds like your schedule would allow for that, seeming as you get 13 hours of sleep a night (9pm-10am)?

Good luck!

---

I actually recalled two dreams last week using a music based alarm. I want to know what I should do for the obe4u technique along side the exploring the world of lucid dreaming technique. I have my alarm set for Mon-Thurs and try to attempt the obe4u technique from Fri-Sat. Anyone can answer not just the person I quoted.

Thanks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by luffy28

I was just asking if I could sleep 7.5 hours. Which is 7.5 hours after sleep. I might try 8 hours because I tried 7.5 and still went back to sleep.

Thanks.

---

Hi, sorry, I am not sure what you are asking? If you mean can you do a WBTB after 7.5 hours, sure, if you are going to get 12 hours of sleep. You want to make sure you are still sleepy and capable of going back to sleep after your WBTB time period. If 7.5 hours isn't working for you, I wouldn't shift to 8 hours (although you can), personally, I would try a longer waking period. So if you stayed awake for 10 minutes, make it 15-20.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by luffy28

I actually recalled two dreams last week using a music based alarm. I want to know what I should do for the obe4u technique along side the exploring the world of lucid dreaming technique. I have my alarm set for Mon-Thurs and try to attempt the obe4u technique from Fri-Sat. Anyone can answer not just the person I quoted.

Thanks.

---

Which Exploring the World of Lucid Dreaming technique are you using? I know he offers several.

One good technique to use with this obe4u method (which seems like a WBTB), is practicing a mental relaxation technique while doing your WBTB. So after your 7.5 hours of sleep, stay awake a bit. When you feel ready to go back to sleep, lay down and mentally focus your attention on every part of your body. In the book Exploring the World of Lucid Dreaming, he calls it the "61 point relaxation technique". Start with your toes, then foot, then heel and ankle, move up to your calves, etc. Spend about 30 seconds on each spot, notice any sensations or discomfort/pain, and feel it until it relaxes, then shift to the next spot. This allows your body to relax while keeping your mind just a tiny bit awake. Hopefully, you will get sleepy doing this. You may have a WILD if you're lucky :) Good luck.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MoonageDaydream

Hi, sorry, I am not sure what you are asking? If you mean can you do a WBTB after 7.5 hours, sure, if you are going to get 12 hours of sleep. You want to make sure you are still sleepy and capable of going back to sleep after your WBTB time period. If 7.5 hours isn't working for you, I wouldn't shift to 8 hours (although you can), personally, I would try a longer waking period. So if you stayed awake for 10 minutes, make it 15-20.




Which Exploring the World of Lucid Dreaming technique are you using? I know he offers several.

One good technique to use with this obe4u method (which seems like a WBTB), is practicing a mental relaxation technique while doing your WBTB. So after your 7.5 hours of sleep, stay awake a bit. When you feel ready to go back to sleep, lay down and mentally focus your attention on every part of your body. In the book Exploring the World of Lucid Dreaming, he calls it the "61 point relaxation technique". Start with your toes, then foot, then heel and ankle, move up to your calves, etc. Spend about 30 seconds on each spot, notice any sensations or discomfort/pain, and feel it until it relaxes, then shift to the next spot. This allows your body to relax while keeping your mind just a tiny bit awake. Hopefully, you will get sleepy doing this. You may have a WILD if you're lucky :) Good luck.

---

I'm using the technique from the first part of the book where he says to catalog dreams so you can identify dream signs (I think it's common themes in your dreams) he says to do it for a few weeks so you can catalog dream times. Other than that I'm going to try to use the obe4u techniques on Fri-Sun.

Thanks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by luffy28

Hi,
I wanted to know what to do for step 2 of the obe4u method? I've tried having thoughts before sleep of awakening and nothing happens. I also have tried the practical alarm clock and it's awoken me fully instead of awakening me and me going back to sleep. Should I put the audio at a certain level below conscious hearing so I can go back to sleep once I hear it?

https://obe4u.com/how-to-lucid-dream/

Any advice?

Thanks.

---

Hey Luffy28!

Here's what I did to wake up during the night when doing obe4u method, which I learned quite well.

Theirs two main factors u need to combine:

* A strong firm will/intention to wake up after EVERY sleep cycle to then initiate the separation technique.

* A nice early night. Yeah, literally go to bed with the birds and don't expose your eyes and body to ANY artificial lighting, unless its a very dim orange warm colored light that won't disrupt your melatonin levels. Yes, this is a important factor. Blue lighting from phones, tv, your laptop and general house lighting will slow down melatonin production, affecting sleep and dream quality.

When I used to go to bed right on sundown without using artificial lighting and set a firm intention to practice obe4u techniques, I'd wake up after most sleep cycles. I'd be naturally waking up after every 90 minute sleep cycle, without an alarm clock. Usually, it would be between 5-7 sleep cycles, like clockwork. That's a lot of practice for 'OOBE'ing'

Had some crazy fun when I was doing that, hahaha. I want to get back into it...

PS. One more little tip will help. Don't eat anything heavy at night. Eat something like, a couple of hours before bedtime. This will also make your sleep 'lighter', helping you to wake up after each sleep cycle.

These methods are far better than alarm clocks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FlyingFree

Hey Luffy28!

Here's what I did to wake up during the night when doing obe4u method, which I learned quite well.

Theirs two main factors u need to combine:

* A strong firm will/intention to wake up after EVERY sleep cycle to then initiate the separation technique.

* A nice early night. Yeah, literally go to bed with the birds and don't expose your eyes and body to ANY artificial lighting, unless its a very dim orange warm colored light that won't disrupt your melatonin levels. Yes, this is a important factor. Blue lighting from phones, tv, your laptop and general house lighting will slow down melatonin production, affecting sleep and dream quality.

When I used to go to bed right on sundown without using artificial lighting and set a firm intention to practice obe4u techniques, I'd wake up after most sleep cycles. I'd be naturally waking up after every 90 minute sleep cycle, without an alarm clock. Usually, it would be between 5-7 sleep cycles, like clockwork. That's a lot of practice for 'OOBE'ing'

Had some crazy fun when I was doing that, hahaha. I want to get back into it...

PS. One more little tip will help. Don't eat anything heavy at night. Eat something like, a couple of hours before bedtime. This will also make your sleep 'lighter', helping you to wake up after each sleep cycle.

These methods are far better than alarm clocks.

---

Usually, when I made an affirmation to awaken for the first technique of the practical quest on project Elijah I would awaken but not go back to sleep. This might have been because I was excited. I awoke after 4 hrs and 50 minutes and went back to sleep and didn't awaken to the practical alarm clock.

Edit:

Could you also say what's going on in your head mentally to get the awakenings (when you awaken and then try to "separate") especially with step 1 / 2 / 3?

[Link Deleted]

Does anyone know a good app for volume control for playing mp3's during sleep?

Thanks.

Well, first of all, have a look at this site, and do some research. https://ehtrust.org/key-issues/cell-...ens-and-sleep/

I don't recommend using phones as an alarm clock/listening to stuff. It's counterproductive as the phone radiation and the 'blue light' is known to interfere with melatonin production and healthy sleep patterns. Use a cheap battery powered alarm clock, if you need an alarm clock. After some practice, you'll find you don't need one.

Quote:

---

"Could you also say what's going on in your head mentally to get the awakenings (when you awaken and then try to "separate") especially with step 1 / 2 / 3?"

---

Its simple really. I can't explain it better than what Michael does. However, here's what I do.

Lately, I've been doing my lazy mans method. I go to bed having a typical late night around 10pm. Then, I wake up sometime in the early morning, just on first light, with the curtains closed to keep most of the light out. I then take a quick break. Sometimes, its as short as rolling over while setting the intention to phase. Other times its longer, getting up to have a drink, take a piss, etc


The important thing happening for me, mentally, is setting an intention to phase next time I wake up. How much mental effort is needed here, is very individual. You'll figure out how much 'stimulation' your brain needs to remember, haha. So, I tell myself to 'phantom wiggle' and 'roll out' of my body when I wake up next. Out of all of Michael Ruduga's techniques, that is what works for me the most. The sense of movement.

So, more times than not, I'll wake up sometime later that morning, experimentally move my body and realize, its my 'dream/energy body' moving and not my physical body. I keep moving back and forth, freeing my body until I float up, or down, or simply roll out onto the 'floor'. Where you end up depends on your expectation, of course. When I float up or down, out of my body, I end up in the 'Void'.

Their is a subtle difference between the feeling of your physical body moving and your dream/energy body.

If you can't go back to sleep after waking up, you may have been awake too long, been exposed to too much bright light ( bright lights from your phone etc suppress your melatonin levels making it harder to go back to sleep ) or simply too excited.

That's my current lazy late night method.

If I did all this again........ early nights, good dream journaling, no evening meal, minimal life stress, no emf and blue light exposure and practiced a strong intent to:
1.Remember my dreams
2. become aware in the dream
3. phase/project after each sleep cycle,...............I'd be phasing multiple times most nights! I used to be at that level but life stresses and some unproductive bad habits are in the way, haha!

I'm liking your approach, FlyingFree, and great job on imparting some advice from Michael Raduga's School of Out-of-Body Travel. Reviewing methods and techniques on the Phaser app helped me immensely to strongly return to the cherished practice of lucid dreaming last year during lockdown. The indirect method, for me, remains by far the most effective. It is essentially DEILD and I wonder why it isn't more widely promoted in the lucid dreaming community. I guess it is, by some, considered to be a type of deferred WILD but I would say it is quite distinct in that it takes advantage of hypnopompia rather than hypnagogia.

I am now able to enter the phase at least five days a month, which is enough to aid Project Elijah's research. I wonder if you have joined them there to help with their research. It can be great fun getting feedback on your own experiences from the researchers.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FlyingFree

Well, first of all, have a look at this site, and do some research. https://ehtrust.org/key-issues/cell-...ens-and-sleep/

I don't recommend using phones as an alarm clock/listening to stuff. It's counterproductive as the phone radiation and the 'blue light' is known to interfere with melatonin production and healthy sleep patterns. Use a cheap battery powered alarm clock, if you need an alarm clock. After some practice, you'll find you don't need one.



Its simple really. I can't explain it better than what Michael does. However, here's what I do.

Lately, I've been doing my lazy mans method. I go to bed having a typical late night around 10pm. Then, I wake up sometime in the early morning, just on first light, with the curtains closed to keep most of the light out. I then take a quick break. Sometimes, its as short as rolling over while setting the intention to phase. Other times its longer, getting up to have a drink, take a piss, etc


The important thing happening for me, mentally, is setting an intention to phase next time I wake up. How much mental effort is needed here, is very individual. You'll figure out how much 'stimulation' your brain needs to remember, haha. So, I tell myself to 'phantom wiggle' and 'roll out' of my body when I wake up next. Out of all of Michael Ruduga's techniques, that is what works for me the most. The sense of movement.

So, more times than not, I'll wake up sometime later that morning, experimentally move my body and realize, its my 'dream/energy body' moving and not my physical body. I keep moving back and forth, freeing my body until I float up, or down, or simply roll out onto the 'floor'. Where you end up depends on your expectation, of course. When I float up or down, out of my body, I end up in the 'Void'.

Their is a subtle difference between the feeling of your physical body moving and your dream/energy body.

If you can't go back to sleep after waking up, you may have been awake too long, been exposed to too much bright light ( bright lights from your phone etc suppress your melatonin levels making it harder to go back to sleep ) or simply too excited.

That's my current lazy late night method.

If I did all this again........ early nights, good dream journaling, no evening meal, minimal life stress, no emf and blue light exposure and practiced a strong intent to:
1.Remember my dreams
2. become aware in the dream
3. phase/project after each sleep cycle,...............I'd be phasing multiple times most nights! I used to be at that level but life stresses and some unproductive bad habits are in the way, haha!

---

What do you think about using the obe4u practical alarm? Also, I'm attempting to do their practical quest on Project Elijah.

Thanks.

I want to know if it's safe to awaken every 90 minutes during sleep? The reason being is that in exploring the world of lucid dreaming book it says to awaken every 90 minutes with an alarm.
-----

I wanted to know if anyone has used the obe4u technique daily? The reason I'm asking is that I tried to use the practical alarm clock and was too mentally tired in order to do the cycling and "separation" techniques.
----
I'm trying to write a mini-guide on how to awaken during sleep for the obe4u technique, specifically step 2. I'll share once I get a reply back.


Thanks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by luffy28

Hi,
I want to know if it's safe to awaken every 90 minutes during sleep? The reason being is that in exploring the world of lucid dreaming book it says to awaken every 90 minutes with an alarm.

Thanks.

---

I think so. But, it's not really necessary to time it exactly. Just make sure you wake after each REM cycle naturally. It's something that once you get in the habit of, you won't need an alarm, you will just do it. And, with practice, you will automatically recall your dreams as you wake as the very first thing you do. Like I said earlier, a great hack is drinking a glass of water before bed and after each awakening so that you have to use the restroom and will naturally wake up.

The only time I wouldn't recommend waking after only 90 minutes is the first sleep cycle, which is mostly NREM. You need your deep sleep. I would think it's fine after that. I know I've been doing something similar for years since I always slept with my kids when they were little. Never got a full night's sleep...

I agree, don't mess with the first 4 hours or so of sleep. After that, have at it.

Heyy, what's this obe4u technique, sounds new and promising? Is there a way to chat on dv, if yes could we converse about it pls?

Princessflare, you can go to that site and download the free ebook. The techniques are right up front in the first couple chapters. For those who make the distinction, that site is more geared towards full conscious projection rather than Lucid Dreaming, although the site admin seems to feel they are basically the same. In my experience the qualities associated with the full conscious projection are as different from lucid dreaming as lucid dreaming is from regular dreams.

I've read the steps but i can't understand 😕

I think the basic obe4u method is to
* only try first thing in the morning when waking up
* do not move a muscle -- begin the induction methods
* spend only 5-10 seconds per method and move on if one doesn't work
* have a plan for which methods to use in what order you plan to use them as well as a plan on what to do upon projection
* as soon as you are out rub your hands together to strengthen the "phase"

I don't want to rehash the whole thing here... can you explain a little about what you don't understand?

I mean they say, to move the perceived body and not the physical muscles. I don't get this point, and also the cycles, the rotation feeling, what should I do with it??
Thanks a lot!!

There is a "shift" from pure physical and waking condition to the dream state... but you are still completely holding the waking conscious state. The obe4u site calls this the "phase" maybe because you "phase" into the new state without falling into pure dreaming awareness. Robert Monroe called it "mind awake -- body asleep" because I think he moved around in his mind without feeling a subtle body imitation/form.

You might not actually be "separated" from the body but you are operating an inner, subtle form that often feels like a separate body. You can be walking around your house in the subtle form while the physical body is in the sleep state. How truly separated you might be is a debatable term.

This is really difficult to explain to someone that has never felt it. Rank beginners must simply follow the directions exactly and to the letter. Do not move the physical body. That requires physical motion and this method involves moving what might be called an imaginary body and is effortless when managed correctly.

There is a method that I think the obe4u site called "phantom wiggling" which is a good way to gain an understanding of this. You simply imagine a subtle hand and you imagine moving the subtle fingers and it requires absolutely zero tension in the actual physical hand. If you are tensing any physical muscles you are missing the trick. It must be a completely effortless action yet filled with full focus and clarity of intent.

But for the traditional wild, after getting into the vibrational stage, we are supposed to roll over right?
And that's an actual bodily movement, isn't it??
And by moving my fingers, you mean I should just think of it clearly and think about how it feels, but never actually do it?

Thanks a lot!!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Princessflare

But for the traditional wild, after getting into the vibrational stage, we are supposed to roll over right?
And that's an actual bodily movement, isn't it??
And by moving my fingers, you mean I should just think of it clearly and think about how it feels, but never actually do it?

Thanks a lot!!!

---

Once you have the vibrations you absolutely do NOT physically roll over. You roll out in the subtle body. If you are in the vibration stage you are 90% there and a simple intention to gently roll to the side is all it takes.

When you wiggle the fingers you simply move the imaginary, subtle body fingers. If you actually move the physical fingers it hits the reset button and you fall back to square one. It is not as bad as it sounds, though. You can usually regain lost ground very quickly by calmly returning to the subtle, imaginary body with clear and focused intention.

Hi,
I notice that when I set the alarm from Friday to Sunday I end up awakening maybe 1.5 to 2 hours before the alarm and either skip the alarm or if I get up I go back to sleep. The alarm app I'm using is called Alarmy. I remember one of the only few times I awoke for maybe 10 - 20 minutes I awoke but didn't do / attempt the "separation" / cycling techniques because I was physically and mentally tired.

Any advice / tips?

Thanks.

Being physically tired is good. If you are "mentally" tired it is game over before you even start.

Using an alarm for the first weekend or two is fine. After that you need to have sufficient strength of intent to wake up at 4am (or whatever time desired). Clear focus and strong intent is required to simply wake up at the desired time.

This is just step one. The ability to maintain clear focus and clarity of awareness must be high in order to even navigate the LD state for more than a few seconds.

A few months of work on Mental Stamina might be required for many aspirants. In some cases a few years of work might be needed. Each individual has their own prep work to do.

Hi,
I woke up last night and stayed up for 25 minutes. I noticed that I had a vivid dream with a dream character and want to know tips on how to notice / know I'm in a dream? I also didn't wake up multiple times.

Any advice / help on how to tell I'm dreaming?

Thanks.