Thread: Cheating or Not?

So many times Ive held back and not had sex with girls who I clearly wanted to, but was with someone at the time, and then got very upset when I realized I was dreaming. I just act like I would in real life. I dont like sleeping with girls right away. Its harder to respect a woman who gives it all up right away.

Originally posted by Ex Nine
How do you know your masturbating isn't going to just encourage other men to do it more?

Not that I'd want to know about that.

we should conduct an experiment

video submissions only

Originally posted by OpheliaBlue

we should conduct an experiment

video submissions only

For the sake of science...
I'm in...

Originally posted by Chaka
Hey guys/girls,

I was just thinking about this, and thought it might be interesting to see what you all think. If you are in a commited relationship, bf/gf married or what ever. Now you go to bed and are asleep next to them, yet you have a lucid dream and and end up having lucid sex with a DC that is not them. Would you consider that cheating???

Not to many people hold anyone in contempt for having a fantasie. And the same should go for lucid dreaming.

With most everything that Ican think of it needs to be in moderation.
If you desire your dream partner over youe mate then you have an issue.
If you day dream cinsistantly about someone all day you may have an issue.
JMO.

Originally posted by Seeker
Look at it from another angle. When you are in a lucid dream, it is the same as being awake, except, you are awake in a dream reality instead of a physical reality.

If you think cheating is wrong in the physical reality, what makes it right in the dream reality?

I am with this statement 100% but couldnt think of the way to say it by myself heh

Seeker wrote:
Look at it from another angle. When you are in a lucid dream, it is the same as being awake, except, you are awake in a dream reality instead of a physical reality.

If you think cheating is wrong in the physical reality, what makes it right in the dream

Originally posted by h0ju


I am with this statement 100% but couldnt think of the way to say it by myself heh

Although I can understand this point of view I think it is much closer to a daydream as opposed to actually cheating. You are conscious in a daydream as are you in a lucid dream.
It is a natural human response/instinctive, to have fantasies. It is healthy I believe if again you do not take thing too far.

Originally posted by OpheliaBlue

we should conduct an experiment

video submissions only

You can catch the live show on YIM. ~

Those of you who are saying fantasy is healthy are right, of course. But you have to quickly buttress it with something like, "as long as you don't go too far," and I think that makes your statement not much more useful than folk wisdom.

It's probably because the introduction of quantitative measures here is inappropriate, for the reasons that they are not only impossible to measure, but also impossible to compare. How far is too far? How thin is the line? All people and all relationships are different and in different ways.

So, after all this, there's still nothing left to guide us but our conscience, which is mostly a qualitative apparatus. It's very bad at giving us numbers and is a poor use as a yardstick. Are things sort of wrong or sort of right? That's when the conscience shuts down in people, I think, when it tries to give answers to degree measures.

Why not try a qualitaive approach? I thought I made a pretty good qualitative assessment in my original post.

The reason why I think it is important is because fantasies and plans for action exist in the same mental space. Imagination. The only thing separating them is intent. But why would you fantasize something if you did not intend to experience it? It's a subtle and pure, raw ethical issue.

We do think there are quantitative measures in lucidity, though, for the most part, "degrees of lucidity." This is why I'm confused by your post Howetzer. Lucid dreams are a significantly more powerful usage of imagination than daydreaming. That's why they're so useful for such things as rehearsing new skills. Imagining something in an LD is orders of magnitude better and all around more effective than daydreaming it.

What's the difference between lucid dreaming sex and rehearsing for it?

Fantasizing about flying is not the same. Flying is impossible. Cheating isn't.

Originally posted by Ex Nine
We do think there are quantitative measures in lucidity, though, for the most part, \"degrees of lucidity.\" This is why I'm confused by your post Howetzer. Lucid dreams are a significantly more powerful usage of imagination than daydreaming. That's why they're so useful for such things as rehearsing new skills. Imagining something in an LD is orders of magnitude better and all around more effective than daydreaming it.

You have a valid point ex Nine. It is indeed more powerful than daydreaming. You add DCs to the mix.
I still think if you maintain a feasable recorse to your actions that you are not in the act of cheating. This could certainly differ from person to person what they consider moral and immoral. As far as where I stand I guess I can truly see both sides of the story. A differance of opinion.
In either case you are consciously making the decision to devulge your sex drive by your own will.
One could ask is watching Porn cheating or masturbation. I know that is differant and I don't mean to take what you are saying out of context. There are many realms to wich you could release you sexual tension.
I still think you have a strong case. You make me feel guilty.

[quote]You make me feel guilty.

Whoops! I didn't mean to do that.

Perhaps fantasizing about other partners is a sign that our society isn't capable of satisfying our needs? There may be a day when "cheating" will sound like a funny concept, as if it will be odd to define the selfishness of the cheater over the selfishness of the one being cheated.

The core ethical issue here is honesty, I think, not sexual promiscuity. I think that if you're not in a relationship you can fantasize about however many different people you want. It's just the eventual danger of hurting both the other person and consequently yourself, as well as family members and others involved, because of breaking a trust.

Even if you're involved in a polygamous relationship, and you all act as if you're not sleeping with anyone else, and then you do, well then you're cheating aren't you? I don't know, I've never been in one.

Originally posted by Ex Nine+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Ex Nine)</div>

Whoops! I didn't mean to do that.
The core ethical issue here is honesty, I think, not sexual promiscuity. I think that if you're not in a relationship you can fantasize about however many different people you want. It's just the eventual danger of hurting both the other person and consequently yourself, as well as family members and others involved, because of breaking a trust.

Even if you're involved in a polygamous relationship, and you all act as if you're not sleeping with anyone else, and then you do, well then you're cheating aren't you? I don't know, I've never been in one. [/b]

Very well put!
<!--QuoteBegin-Ex Nine
Perhaps fantasizing about other partners is a sign that our society isn't capable of satisfying our needs? There may be a day when \"cheating\" will sound like a funny concept, as if was originally meant to define the selfishness of the cheater instead of the selfishness of the one being cheated.

That is a sad but true statement.
It would not be the first moral issue shunned aside to satisfy our greed!

[quote]It would not be the first moral issue shunned aside to satisfy our greed!

Well, as long as everybody's happy, then it's an ethical success, right?

There's an underlying issue here of freedom, and I don't think it's any coincidence that no one person on the planet knows what's best for all. The heart of ethical studies is freedom. it has to be, in my eyes. In the end, only individuals can be responsible enough to find what truly satisfies their own desires.

[edited out some added text]

Originally posted by Ex Nine


Well, as long as everybody's happy, then it's an ethical success, right?

There's a deep issue here about freedom, and I don't think it's any coincidence that no one person on the planet knows what's best for all. Only individuals can be responsible enough to find what truly satisfies their own desires.

Don't you think greed resides in all of us though. Much like survival of the fitess?

I made a saying once:
Many desires lay lurcking for every man, left unchecked, could be their demise.

Absolutely. John Maynard Keynes, the inventor of the macroeconomics, called greed our "animal nature," and necessarily included it in his model. In that sense, it's present in all life, not just humanity. Greed is life.

I can't just make a statement like that without specifying, though. We need to really examine what greed means to us. My OED says: "intense and selfish desire for something, esp. wealth, power, or food." The only thing I see potentially wrong with that is "selfish." If we take it to mean "self love," there's nothing wrong with it. Self-love should be encouraged everywhere. But that's not how we mean the selfish kind of self-love, which I don't think exists or is even possible. I think it's plainly clear that selfish people deeply hate themselves, creating an insatiable void of satisfaction - and that is what fuels the intensity of their hunger.

We've had a cultural habit of sacrificing our self worth to nobles, Kings, lords, and gods, always gods. But we're all worth something. The worth of the greater good, therefore, is the inclusive and additive worth of each of us, including the self. No one, absolutely no one can lord over us and say "you must do this here blah blah blah for the greater good," for the very simple reason that no one can possibly know that blah blah blah will actually contribute to a greater good.

Lots of people praise Mother Theresa as a model for someone working for the greater good, for instance. But if you look closer, her method sucks rocks. Many people donated money to her and what did she do? She didn't spend much on medical supplies, that's for sure. Instead, she founded her own order of nuns and built some more places where poor nuns can live and sit around the sick - praying for them. Big whoop-de-frickin'-do. Thank God Mother Theresa wasn't the leader of a nation. And everyone applauded her because of the sacrifices she made. She was so poor! Oh the drama! I say that she was selfish. You know, usually when people meet the pope? They put on nice clothes or something? Not Theresa. She scored big humble points by showing up in her old rags.

Okay - enough about that.

I emphasized in my original post that, if you recognize that a DC is you, or some part of you, or some creation of yours, or some facet of your self, anything connected with you so intimately and closely that it might as well be yourself, then it can only help you and others around you. Not only is it some of the greatest fantasy (can you imagine a sexual partner that knows everything about you, what you want before you even know you want it?) but it's straight on a path of self discovery and knowledge. No way is that cheating. No way, no how.

i think it has nothing to do with cheating
cheating can only be done in action
dreaming of someone else,
just thinking of another woman/man
or just looking at it is not cheating either..
its just party of having a sexual orientation
and it's biological purpose is to maintain the survival of mankind
without that thirst for sex, mankind would colapse...
your dream liffe is realy personal to you
i dont think there are any rules, and that doing what you want to do is important
if you are able to imagine your gf/bf in your dream and have sex with him/her then fine
but in my lucid dreams where i have sex with ppl, i just pick up the first girl on sight

i think your dream life is so personal that you realy dont have to justify anything you do
if i kill ppl in my lucid dreams, i wont feel bad for it..
its like playing a video game

love

Xavier

All of you who think it is cheating think that LDing of sex is the same as actually doing it, then what about looking at the other sex and thinking they have a nice body, or thinking about how a certian actor is hot, or watching a movie and seeing a bit of nudity. Or maybe even acknowledging others of the opposite sex that aren't your lover is cheating!

I don't see how something that isn't real in any shape way or form constitutes cheating.

I wonder if some people consider it cheating because they believe lucid dreams are more real that they really are.

Awhislyle, I don't think that anyone is saying that it is cheating outright. Just that it is a highly organized cheating fantasy. Think about what that means.

Relationships are a voluntary joining of trusts. It is a mental union. There really are no physical chains or attachments that link two people.

Since it is a union that is highly dependent on the mind, what does it mean to use the same mind to create a virtual environment, within that mind, where you betray the trust that you accepted with again the same mind?

It's dishonest to the self. You're just asking for trouble with that kind of disharmony. Nevermind, for the moment, a dishonesty to your mate.

Oohh... Look at all the informed opinions...

Anyways, I think that it is not "cheating" per se, to do something like fantasize about another person than one's mate. Lucid Dreaming is just another method of fantasy, some would say, just a very vivid one. Whatever you believe about LDs, what matters is that all of this is in the mind. Therefore there is nothing physically harmful about it.

Here's the issue: The definition of "cheating" may change from person to person, as does the very definition of "wrong". What you consider cheating is all your opinion, and all anyone else can tell you is what the average opinion of society is. On a subject such as this, I doubt you're going to get a clear answer...