Negative Long Term Effects Of Lucid Dreaming?

[daxamite]

Hello all, I am one of those lucky few who has the natural ability to have lucid dreams. So much so, that I had them several times a night (2 out of 3 dreams) every night for a number of weeks. However, I decided to stop because of the potential harm I may have been doing to my brain. Thus far, I have only witnessed one side-effect from doing this. The continuing use of super-powers in non-lucid dreams. While on the surface this does not seem very negative, it does raise a question about long term effects. For example, I felt like I had no creative ability so in my dreams I gave myself the ability to manifest objects. My brain had to compensate and dissolve the objects to get the message across. However, since this can never happen in real life, there is no way from my brain to "drive the message home". My question is this: Do lucid dreams prevent those powerful "message" dreams from happening, even when the dream isn't lucid any longer? Those scary dreams where we feel like we are falling or being chased: aren't those needed? (So the brain can process a feeling?) What other long-term effects does lucid dreaming have? Thanks for any info, James

[Mikekan]

lucid dreams dont harm you in any way and there are no negative effects. If anything its healthy

[Oneiro]

With a lucid age of 0-2 months, you don't have the experience to make such a statement.

[Mikekan]

With a lucid age of 0-2 months, you don't have the experience to make such a statement. [/b] That is simply an age on this forum and in no way determines my experience in anything. Please don’t make random assumptions about people

[tai]

Those are actually some very interesting questions. A girl who taught me a lot about Lucid Dreaming always used to say: "Just make sure that you have regular dreams now and then!" There must be value to non-lucid dreams - maybe as you say, the brain has to work through stuff. For myself, even when I am Lucid (which is not every night), I never have total control anyway - there will always be surprises and things I can't change, so I've never worried about it. You sound like you are among the very small percentage of people who Lucid Dream every night. So yes, its probably good that you give yourself a break every so often and let yourself have regular dreams. Like I said, I do believe that non-Lucid dreams are there for a reason. For most of us, its a lot easier to become un-Lucid than stay Lucid, so I wish you the same luck! And welcome to Dreamviews, by the way!

[italianmonkey]

you could just decide "let it go" sometimes for a while. it may feel a little "yess let's watch that terrible nightmare with a bowl of popcorn", but i suppose it would do the job anyway. (i don't really have that problem because, though "natural" too, i have lots of normal dreams,so i did what i wrote very few times - mostly before exams or so on )

[BeautifulDreamer]

Lucid Dreams and regular dreams are in no way different besides the fact you know you're dreaming. Your mind still creates every single thing. Even if you 'make' something with dream control, it is an expression of yourself, as even if we think we are 'concious' in a dream, we never really truly are, there's still that little part of you stuck in a complete and regular dream. If it's message dreams you want, I suggest (if you have moderatley good dream control.) that you make yourself 'paralyzed' as in you're still lucid, but the dream moves you around where it wants you to go, do, etc, but since you're lucid, you can still observe and think what you want to think. Message dreams aren't much of a calling for me. I think dreams mean something, as we know they are still a manestfestation of you're everyday thoughts and observations. I go to dreammoods.com and interpret most of my dreams, but I don't think they can predict the future or anything. You call what most think of as nightmares 'message dreams' I don't think you really need them, and nightmares are actually one of the largest reasons why many people decided to try becoming lucid. Anyways, good luck, and good dreaming!

[Tsen]

Yeah, Oneiro, the "lucid age" is mostly to give people an idea of how long somebody's been into LD'ing--NOT to rate their expertise on the matter. My lucid age is 3-5 years, but there are newbs who LD more than me, such as the topic starter. Anyway, I'm giving a resounding NO as to whether LD's can be harmful long-term. Several people have been in and out of this forum who have LD'd without any effort every single dream for as long as they can remember. They're still normal people, they can still process emotions and feelings as usual. Lucid dreams do not impede your subconscious in any way, for three reasons: 1- As mentioned earlier, even when you're lucid, there's plenty of subconscious cues that come into your dream. Your conscious mind is working to maintain lucidity, and alter the dream as you want, but your subconscious is still working to do everything that you don't consciously do. When a DC talks to you, that's completely in the realm of your subconscious, unless you actively attempt to make the DC say something specific. Scenery is usually up to the subconscious, and even when you create a new set of scenery for your dream, your subconscious is hard at work making that scenery look the way it does--rendering, so to speak, all the blades of grass, the leaves on the trees, etcetera. 2- Your subconscious's effects are not limited to your dreams. Subconscious covers a broad spectrum of processes, seeing as how it envelops everything but the limited portion that you're thinking about that exact moment. During the day, when you are fully awake and conscious, your subconscious is still hard at work, and can still actively effect you, though perhaps not as directly as in a dream. When somebody says something to you in real life, your subconscious glazes over the words before your conscious mind does. That's where you pick up on hints and clues people give in their tonality and such. Your subconscious is adding its own interpretation to the initial message, and your conscious mind then goes over both the initial message and the interpretation from the subconscious simultaneously. It's rather hard to explain this all in a linear fashion, since the conscious and subconscious mind work together in a means that is anything but linear. 3- You probably aren't lucid all the time. Everybody has dreams they don't remember. Even dream masters who remember six or more dreams each night are still forgetting quite a few dreams. Of these dreams, you probably weren't lucid in many of them. Lucid dreams tend to be more memorable, since the mind processes and stores the information from the dreams differently, making the transit to long-term memory easier. As a result, you forget more non-lucids than lucids. So the dreams you're forgetting are still perfectly blank canvases for your subconscious to work on, sending whatever messages it wants to you. You don't actively remember these dreams, but they still leave an impact on you. In short, I wouldn't worry about it at all. Stephen LaBerge and some of the other chaps over at the Lucidity Institute have been working on studying lucid dreaming for over twenty years, with the researchers actively participating in lucid dreaming the entire time. Throughout all of this, they have found no negative influences on themselves, and not witnessed any negative effects in others.

[Oneiro]

Mikekan: "That is simply an age on this forum and in no way determines my experience in anything. Please don’t make random assumptions about people." Then don't make such ridiculous sweeping statements. I stand by my original statement..

[.jared.]

Mikekan: "That is simply an age on this forum and in no way determines my experience in anything. Please don’t make random assumptions about people." Then don't make such ridiculous sweeping statements. I stand by my original statement.. [/b] Its not a ridiculous sweeping statement. Its the commonly held belief, here, and most other places online and irl that dreaming cannot hurt you.

[Ne-yo]

Perhaps the experience in long term effects are different for that particular individual, as for myself I am a Natural Lucid Dreamer. I've had this ability well before I can remember and years of lucid dreaming later I have never noticed any side-effects on a negative level. So Im pretty sure that they do no harm on a long term scale.

[DuB]

I used to have a friend who was a natural lucid dreamer. He recognized that he was dreaming in 9 out of 10 dreams, and had done so his whole life. He thought everybody was like that until I told him otherwise. Anyway, he seemed basically pretty normal, except for being a 17-year old heavy drug user who emancipated himself from his parents at 16 and moved away from California to go live in a run-down piece-of-shit house in Tahlequah, Oklahoma. This part is not entirely relevant, but it is interesting. He also had complete control in all of his lucid dreams. He said there was only one time when he couldn't change something in a dream. He said he was in a dream and he was looking in a mirror, but his reflection was fucked up. So he tried to will it back to normal... but it wouldn't change. So he kept trying, but his reflection just stayed all fucked-up looking. He got so scared and freaked out that he was unable to control something in his dream that he woke himself up.

[JaphyR]

With a lucid age of 0-2 months, you don't have the experience to make such a statement.[/b] If Mikekan was accurate with his lucid age when he filled out his profile, Oneiro is right on with this comment. Where you enter your lucid age, it says "how long you've been practicing lucid dreaming". I think most people interpret this to be how long you've been having lucid dreams. Lucid age is supposed to have nothing to do wtih how long you've been on this forum, only how long you've been lucid dreaming. If someone has spent their life climbing mountains, I consider their advice on climbing mountains pretty seriously when I'm about to do a hard mountain. When I get advice about climbing from someone who's only climbed two mountains, I consider that advice with a good deal of skepticism, especially when it is given with an air of sweeping authority.

[Ne-yo]

If Mikekan was accurate with his lucid age when he filled out his profile, Oneiro is right on with this comment. Where you enter your lucid age, it says "how long you've been practicing lucid dreaming". I think most people interpret this to be how long you've been having lucid dreams. Lucid age is supposed to have nothing to do wtih how long you've been on this forum, only how long you've been lucid dreaming. [/b] I don't think anyone would misrepresent that age as forum time because the date that you've joined the forum is already displayed.

[Marvo]

To say dreaming is dangerous is like saying masturbation is dangerous. It's like humans just thing "It brings alot of joy, it has to be dangerous".

[Oneironaut Zero]

I don't believe lucid dreaming does any "damage." I believe that it has an affect but that affect could be just as much beneficial as many people think it could be detrimental. Of course, this is all speculation. Despite how sure any of us may be, none of us know for sure.

[Tsen]

The lucid age display ONLY shows how long a person has been lucid dreaming, and has NOTHING to do with their level of skill or knowledge. I completely stand by Mikekan, because he made an entirely accurate statement. For the rest of you, remember that just because you're new to the concept does NOT mean that you are necessarily wrong, or that you cannot actively provide better advice than somebody with twice as much time under their belts.

[JaphyR]

I like this question, because when we get into lucid dreaming, especially all these induction methods like wbtb and audio induction, we are playing with our minds. So the answer "it's completely harmless" is easy to throw out, but not as obvious as it seems. It also depends on our definitions of harmful and dangerous. I think most of us agree that there's no threat of Freddy Krueger killing us in a lucid dream and we die in real life. But some people have mentioned losing track of whether something happened last week in a lucid dream or in waking life. Once in a while, that's kind of funny. On a regular basis, that can interfere with your waking life. Lucid age is meaningful to me in these conversations, because on an internet forum we need to be careful about evaluating the reliability of answers we read. When I read a comment from someone who's been lucid dreaming for a long time, I know they are basing their response in some part on a good base of experience. When someone who has had three lucid dreams makes a broad statement, I wonder what they are basing it on. I don't completely disregard their thoughts, but I keep in mind that they might be missing something in their assertions. The opportunity to bring new people's thoughts together with the experiences of seasoned practitioners in any field is one of the joys of internet forums. Here's a quick mathematical example that tempts you with an obvious answer: If you roll a six-sided die three times, what is the probability you will roll a 6 at least once?

[Jimmie Lynne]

um. . . my gut says 50/50. . . what's the real answer?

[Sortilegio]

Hey, I've been lucid dreaming since I can remeber and I'm fine, I realise I'm dreamong in 90 to 100% of the dreams I have in a night, there really is no worries about it, I don't find myself getting tired from lucid dreaming or anything, thing that does happen to me when I have long non-lucid dreams, and making all non-lucids more magical can actually make for very interesting/fun dreams, in my opinion.

[OmnipotentTitan]

theres a reason you have a sub-conscious.

[Tsen]

And? Elaborate. What is the reason you have a subconscious, and how does it affect the discussion at hand? If you're suggesting that lucid dreaming interferes with the subconscious, refer to my post on the first page. Here's a brief summary of my refutation of that: -Even when lucid, your subconscious is still present and affecting the dream. So its not like you're shutting it out. -The subconscious isn't limited to dreams, so even if you COULD shut out all of your subconscious, it would still affect you in other ways. -You aren't lucid all the time. Even natural LD'ers have normal dreams now and then, though they may not remember them as well.

[daxamite]

Tai, You overestimate me. (I am half tempted not to correct you) I actually can turn them on or off at will. (Much like anyone with enough practice) I would find it amazing if someone had a hard time going un-lucid, but perhaps that&#39;s just my narrow world view. And thanks for the welcome&#33; italianmonkey, good advice. BeautifulDreamer, I&#39;ve never tried that paralyzed thing. Hahah... I suppose I&#39;ve been to busy coming up with new super powers. Tsen, Interesting correlation between the conscious and sub-conscious minds. What you said reminds me of a parallel between the sun and moon. (PURE SPECULATION HERE) Durning the day, the conscious mind over powers the sub-conscious mind with sensory information. However, during the night, sensory information is minimalized and the sub-conscious mind "rises" and "reflects" the light from the conscious mind. <--- I think that is neat Ne-yo, I like your Google icon (Screwgle). Got a good laugh out of that&#33; Marvo, comparing sleep to masturbation says this to me: To much of a good thing can be bad&#33; :)) Oneironaut, I like that you’re a matrix fan. That makes two of us. :) JaphyR, 1 in 6 each time you roll the dice. I do have a question based on your response. If people get confused about past events (were they real or just a dream) does that mean that de-ja-vu increases with Lucid Dreaming? Jimmie Lynne, 50. (Post Edited for spelling)

[Tsen]

The statement you metioned about Deja-Vu IS an interesting subject... Deja-vu is theorized to be a "glitch" where your mind accidently moves some short-term memory and it gets mixed up with long-term memory, giving you the feeling that you've seen/felt something twice: Once recently from the short-term memory, and once a time ago, from the long-term memory. This comes heavily into play with dreams, because REM plays around with the short term memory (which is why dreams are hard to remember). Lucid dreams should actually reduce deja vu, since in a lucid dream, your mind is processing the memory more as if it was awake (hence why lucid dreams are easier to remember). So basically, While lucid you're processing the memory like normal. It goes to short term first, then to long term later on. So you should incur deja-vu at a normal rate, since your mind is processing things like normal. But when NOT lucid, your short term memory is rather transparent--the memories might go there, but they get erased quickly unless they're transferred to long term memry. In this case, deja-vu occurances should increase (at least appear to increase), because each occurance of deja-vu means that the memory goes to long term first, making the deja-vu moment more memorable than the rest of the dream. This is why I mentioned an apparent increase earlier--you're not actually having deja-vu more often, its just that you remember the deja-vu moments more than you remember the rest of the dream(s), so it appears that you're having more deja-vu moments for less time, when really you just don't remember most of the time spent in-dream. Anyway. That turned out quite rant-like. Conclusion--LD's should (in theory) reduce the (apparent) occurance of deja-vu. At the least, it shouldn't increase it in any way.

[JaphyR]

um. . . my gut says 50/50. . . what's the real answer?[/b] In a moment... 1 in 6 each time you roll the dice.[/b] Yes, that's the easy part. But I asked about rolling three times. Knowing there's a one in six chance of rolling a 6 each time you roll the dice, what is the probability you will get a 6 at least once if you roll the die three times? I'll give the answer sometime tomorrow, and it does have something to do with this thread. Your comments on deja-vu are interesting, and your explanation of how memories are stored helps me understand why it is so much easier to remember ld's than non-ld's. I have nowhere near enough lucid experience to know personally if they have any long-term side effects. However, even if everyone on DV has no waking-life problems from ld'ing, I would still wonder if there are people out there who have some issues. This site attracts people who enjoy ld'ing, so we just might not hear from people who have had bad experiences with it. Some people have dropped in to say they've had some bad effects, but I haven't seen anyone stay long, and it's also difficult (impossible) to know what else is going on in a person's life to give them difficulty. Someone who's been around here longer may throw some more in on that. I live in southeast alaska, and this time of year it's dark and rainy for long periods of time. When I've had to leave my house suddenly after being woken in the night, and drive into town in the driving rain in the dark, I've had some funny feelings transitioning from the sleep world to the waking world. Walking into a friend's house, I am sure that I'm in waking life, but sitting in a car squinting through big raindrops on the windshield with little but darkness around, I've wondered if I could get lost between the dream world and the waking world, just disappear into my own head. I'll ramble a little more, since this is my last post of the day. I once spent 13 months living on a bicycle, traveling and living in a tent. It was an incredibly peaceful existence, and dreams were a part of that life. When I returned to living in a city, I felt a little off for a month or so, a little unstable. I had the feeling I might just sit down on the sidewalk at any moment, and disappear into my head forever. It was very unsettling, until I realized it was just because I had jumped from an almost monk-like state of living right back into modern society. Once I realized that and learned which parts of the traveling mindset I could carry over into everyday living within society, I felt a lot more settled and stable. Whenever we jump back and forth between two very different mindsets, funny things can happen. The dream and waking states seem like two of those different mindsets. (I think we're all perfectly fine to keep right on ld'ing, but it's interesting stuff to pay attention to.)