but....did it really happen..?

**nerve** · 10-23-2003 06:48 AM

i was in this dream once, where i flew up over a tree. i new what i was doing. i felt it. i saw it. i was fully conscious. then i really did it, right? sure i did. but, it was only a dream. but i knew what i was doing, i was conscious. the question is, what is reality?

Originally posted by Dictionary.com
re·al·i·ty * *( P ) *Pronunciation Key *(r-l-t)
n. pl. re·al·i·ties *
1.The quality or state of being actual or true. *
2.One, such as a person, an entity, or an event, that is actual: “the weight of history and political realities” (Benno C. Schmidt, Jr.). *
3.The totality of all things possessing actuality, existence, or essence. *
4.That which exists objectively and in fact: Your observations do not seem to be about reality. *

it sounds to me like it really happened. if something is in a dream, does that mean it's not real? just my thoughts lately. laugh if you will.

**Thermonuclear** · 10-23-2003 07:38 AM

Reality is anything that exists.

Do your dreams exist? yup.

**Serinanth** · 10-23-2003 08:22 AM

Take now as reality... thats the only thing that has kept me sane.

Two people driving in a car, they pass a large yellow object.

One sees a large yellow propane tank.

The other a school bus

Neither says anything to the other becaue there was nothing out of the ordinary... which one of them saw the truth?

Both of them did...

I will pan anyone that says dreams are just dreams, I guess I have a problem with people telling me that the other 75% of my life is not real.

**nerve** · 10-23-2003 08:18 PM

my point is....did i really fly over a tree?

someone walks up to me and asks "so what did you do last night?"

i say, "oh, i flew over a tree"

"REALLY!?"

(can i say "yes" right here?)

**Serinanth** · 10-23-2003 08:41 PM

Yes,

you can.

**nerve** · 10-23-2003 08:43 PM

but....it was in my head....a dream...just a dream..

**Seeker** · 10-23-2003 08:52 PM

Originally posted by Serinanth
Yes, * *you can.

Then if I have a lucid sexual encounter, can my wife file for divorce on the grounds of adultary?

**nerve** · 10-23-2003 09:25 PM

...damn....this is confusing to me...i don't know..

**Second Attention** · 10-23-2003 10:10 PM

Our realities, if you wish to call them that, are varied and exist separate from each other(at least at this point), so how can you really carry anything over except your personality, and memories. We can't prove whether this or that reality is any more real than the one we're currently discussing this in. If you say it was true, I'll believe you, but I don't know if any one else will. I mean... if you say it's true, and you thought it was real, then... well... why wouldn't it be?

**jill1978** · 10-24-2003 12:38 AM

I think it could be possible that things in dreams are really happening, but if you were to point at a specific tree and say last night you flew over it I guess if it really did happen it would be an out of body experience, I guess the only way to prove something like that would be if say you say a kite caught up there that no one else could see and it was really there.

**evangel** · 10-24-2003 01:00 AM

Originally posted by Serinanth
Take now as reality... thats the only thing that has kept me sane. *

Two people driving in a car, they pass a large yellow object. *

One sees a large yellow propane tank.

The other a school bus

Neither says anything to the other becaue there was nothing out of the ordinary... which one of them saw the truth?

Both of them did...

I think one of them THOUGHT they saw the truth the other DID see the truth... One was just MORE AWARE

than the other. An apple is still an apple and an orange is still an orange... but I do agree about panning people though. There are at times thin lines between reality and dreams or perhaps there aren't any lines, just overlaps?

**Tim** · 10-24-2003 01:45 AM

its starting to sound like you are getting into quantum physics...

**Thermonuclear** · 10-24-2003 03:22 AM

You fly over a tree in your dream.

Tomarrow someone asks you what you did last night.

You say you flew over a tree.

He says Really?

You say yup?

Then he says how?

Then you say, jumping.

And he says jump over that tree right there!

You say umm i dont think i can

The conversation could go on for hours

**Rtex** · 10-24-2003 05:29 AM

Ok, Hold up folks,
Bear with me.

So, what their basicly saying is that whatever I do in my dreams actually happens right?

Right!

But, Do you realize the ramifacations????????

Sure I do.

Maybe you do, but this means if you kill some one in your dreams your guilty of murder!

Nah, Because no one is dead in the real world, and the "rules don't apply to the dream world.

Ah, good point, but does it apply when you do it? are you then not a virgin.

Once again, The "rules" of the Real world don't apply. So you can get killed, shoot people, and do it, and it doesn't mean a thing in the real world. Get the picture?

Hmmmm, Maybe. But i'll have to think about some more.

**nerve** · 10-24-2003 05:36 AM

you are so funny Rtex

**Serinanth** · 10-24-2003 10:34 AM

There are rammifications in my dreams...

I think some scratch the world, others might be living on it.

beleive me, I have gotten in trouble before... and all I did was share a dream with somone, apparently it pissed somone off, I woke up in chains basically naked, the cell was clay or mortar I got dragged out and they tied a wooden beam to my hands, I enede up getting thrown out of the city, while being stoned... When I got out of the city I said "thats it...no more" I broke the beam and tore the chains off, the people at the gate got quiet, I turned and started walking away, apparently it pissed somone off as a large boulder dropped out of the sky it smashed into me, but I was made of stronger stuff =) It squished me in the ground, it was heavy! I had to exert so much focus to move that thing it was the size of a house! I threw it off of myself and away, the city stopped jeering again, I walked off into the desert and woke up again.

**Seeker** · 10-24-2003 02:15 PM

You know, this is beginning to sound like the debate Carlos had with Don Juan after one of his visions.
Essentially, Carlos was asking Don if it really happened and Don was telling him it did.
Carlos wanted to know if it happened in the physical realm. Don Juan basically replied that it made no difference.
It is the experience that counts, not which realm it occurs in.

**nerve** · 10-24-2003 03:39 PM

......yeah...that's cool..

**Second Attention** · 10-24-2003 08:54 PM

Very good point SeekerDave... but... was Don Juan real? Or a figment of Carlos' perverted imagination?

HAHA... sorry... that was the famous conversation quoted in my philosophy book. That's the line that got me into Castaneda.

Still a brilliant point, though.

**jill1978** · 10-24-2003 10:44 PM

I still dont buy into carlos because of all the hallucinagens he was taking.....I think it boils down to what can be proved in this world is real in this world, but maybe the dream world is another world with a different set of rules, but it's still not the waking reality most people experience....but then there's schitzophrenics who's dream world and wakeing world sound the same to an outsider.

**DreamCoil** · 10-25-2003 12:13 AM

Take everything as reality... thats a good thing to remember. If you believed it happened and you where there when it happened, then whats the problem? It happened.

**Serinanth** · 10-25-2003 12:20 AM

schitzophrenics the real ones... I think are bodies with two spirits attached to it, it dosent happen often, but two spirits both end up with the same energy signiature or resonance, our bodies are just hosts... the brain the interface mechanism, the remote control....so they end up stuck in the same brain the two fight for dominance in the cases where the spirits arent quite like the other and this is the case most well known there are then people who get along with their other self, you dont hear about it, most would keep it to themselves so they dont get locked up hell I would. I bet the little kids with an invisible best friend, the ones that REALLY get into it might be like this? I duno im goin off on a tangent here...hehe
crap I forgot what I was talking about...

Whether Carlos was telling the truth or not dosent matter, Don Juan's words are still very wise, What DOES it matter? I can do something here and ask one of you what I did... like I can ask you did I just type "Whether Carlos was telling the truth" and you would say Yes seri you did...I can ask one of the people in my dreams if I did that and they would say no. Now if I asked them about something I did THERE, they would see what I did and could say yes I did thaI did it so it happened for them too but your the one disagreeing
Both parties see the same side is what I mean, whats real here and real there a not nessesarily the same, but that dosent make them any less real? Its all the same.

whoops
/rantoff/