Thread: The levels of lucidity.

I don't understand 20%. How is it possible to control your own actions without consciously doing it (you'd have to be lucid to consciously control your actions)? It is a bit of an oxymoron:

You can't know what you are doing and not know what you're doing at the same time.

Originally Posted by Casualtie

I don't understand 20%. How is it possible to control your own actions without consciously doing it (you'd have to be lucid to consciously control your actions)? It is a bit of an oxymoron:

You can't know what you are doing and not know what you're doing at the same time.

Keep in mind that dream control and lucidity in a dream are not the same thing. They often go hand-in-hand but, they are different entities.

With dream control, I believe you are doing the "control actions" consciously, on some level. The distinguishing factor is that you do so without being aware that you are dreaming. You're performing the actions with the assumption that you're wide awake - you don't put two and two together. If or when you do you become lucid.

For example, say you decide that the next time you have a nightmare you will confront your fears and dispatch of the dream threat. You may have a dream in which you are chased by a monster. If you suddenly remember that you wanted to defeat the next monster that threatens you one of two things might happen:

1) You can realize, "Hey, this means I'm dreaming!"

or

2) Given the realism of the dream world - and typical blindness of the mind's eye to the illusory nature of the dream realm - the context of the dream may allow you to face the monster, beat it to a pulp, turn it into a butterfly, fly off on a dragon's back and return to your palace constructed entirely of gold and diamonds: all without ever realizing that you are dreaming.

In the second possibilty, you merely realized, "Hey, that monster can't hurt me if I face it." You consciously chose not to run and to face the creature because you recalled information from waking life. The dreamer made the decision, not the dream. That's an example of dream control independent of lucidity.

Originally Posted by Oneironaught

In the second possibilty, you merely realized, "Hey, that monster can't hurt me if I face it." You consciously chose not to run and to face the creature because you recalled information from waking life. The dreamer made the decision, not the dream. That's an example of dream control independent of lucidity.

What if you still thought the monster could hurt you? I mean, in a non-LD, those claws and fire can seem pretty harmful. Let's say instead that you turned to face the monster for a slightly more rational reason, say because you thought you could fight back (like if in the dream you're a hero, have magic powers, a trained Navy SEAL, etc.) or because of another reason, like protecting someone?

Originally Posted by Edmaster

What if you still thought the monster could hurt you? I mean, in a non-LD, those claws and fire can seem pretty harmful. Let's say instead that you turned to face the monster for a slightly more rational reason, say because you thought you could fight back (like if in the dream you're a hero, have magic powers, a trained Navy SEAL, etc.) or because of another reason, like protecting someone?

That would be about 30%. The "real life dream". You have enough of your wits around you to control your actions and you follow the laws of the dream. (if you have magical powers in the dream and its because thats how the dream ended up turning by itself, thats one of the laws of the dream. Something that should "logcally" happen.

What One described is more among the ranks of 50%

I need to revise this. XD... I simply sat down and typed this all up. Ninja, your system is pretty good. It's given me ideas on how to expand uopn somestuff as well as wording. I also have to make everything clearer (always a problem with my writing >.<) and easier for people who are just starting off to understand.

I've no time right now but its the first thing i'll do whne I get home this afternoon.

Originally Posted by Edmaster

What if you still thought the monster could hurt you? I mean, in a non-LD, those claws and fire can seem pretty harmful. Let's say instead that you turned to face the monster for a slightly more rational reason, say because you thought you could fight back (like if in the dream you're a hero, have magic powers, a trained Navy SEAL, etc.) or because of another reason, like protecting someone?

You're completely correct in that being a possible conclusion. That's what I mean by "the context of the dream". The two examples I listed aren't intended to encompass all possible paths a dream may take. I only choose those two possibilities to illustrate the contrast between dream control and lucidity and that they can, indeed, occur independently of each other.

To be lucid dreaming, or have lucidity, is to know that you're dreaming. You can't know that you're dreaming more or less. Either you know it, or you don't.

Nice anyway though. Don't see how it helps though.

Originally Posted by Marvo

To be lucid dreaming, or have lucidity, is to know that you're dreaming. You can't know that you're dreaming more or less. Either you know it, or you don't.

Nice anyway though. Don't see how it helps though.

Who are you responding to? There definitely are multiple levels of lucidity. Like arby said:

There is knowing that you are dreaming, then there’s Understanding that you are dreaming.

I love that line because it points out that there are subtleties to lucidity that aren't always apparent on the surface.

To be lucid means to know that you are dreaming. Understanding that you are dreaming can not be defined as lucid-dreaming. It's something else.