Smelling in dreams?

[nullbyte00]

I've heard that in a lucid dream, you can actually use all of your senses. However, in real life, I do not have a sense of smell, which is because of a problem with my nose and stuff. In a lucid dream, since I only can not smell because of my nose, and the brain is what creates the senses in a dream, would I be able to smell?

[Moonbeam]

I definitely think that you should be able to.

[skarudie]

I'd say so. I know someone who has no legs, he lost them over twenty years ago. However he is able to walk and run in dreams and it feels normal.

[Alprazolam]

You will be able to for a few reasons: A. You have probably had the sense of smell at least some point in your life, it can pull memory from that. B. Even if you have NEVER smelt anything, I believe your mind will still be able to create what you believe it to be like. (Like when someone tries a drug they've never really done in an LD, they feel effects that they believe they would feel)

[slimslowslider]

Pretty much what Alprazolam said. Have you ever been able to smell? If yes then I'd have thought it would be easy to remember. If no, then it should still be easy enough as smell is very similar to taste. Its not like you'd be trying to invent something 'new'.

[The Wig]

You will be able to for a few reasons: A. You have probably had the sense of smell at least some point in your life, it can pull memory from that. B. Even if you have NEVER smelt anything, I believe your mind will still be able to create what you believe it to be like. (Like when someone tries a drug they've never really done in an LD, they feel effects that they believe they would feel) I don't think B is correct. Blind people cannot fathom "seeing" and as such, don't dream in visuals. It stands to reason that the same occurs for all other senses. If you have never smelled anything, then you can't just start smelling things. Feeling effects of a drug is dependent on having used those sense that the effects take place on. A blink person could take acid in a dream and not get the visuals but would get the mind-blast and feelings and what not.

[Alprazolam]

Blind people don't fathom seeing? There are many blind people that say they can imagine colors and features of things as such. (Plus smelling is VERY similar to taste. Plus you can imagine what anything would be like in your brain, and even if incorrect, it will happen in a dream/LD because your using the part of your brain that thought about it- The sub conscious. No one has ever experienced body flight, or throwing a fireball, but however we imagine it to be, it happens.) -Sorry Wig, don't mean to seem combative, it's just fairly simple IMO.

[The Wig]

Blind people don't fathom seeing? There are many blind people that say they can imagine colors and features of things as such. (Plus smelling is VERY similar to taste. Plus you can imagine what anything would be like in your brain, and even if incorrect, it will happen in a dream/LD because your using the part of your brain that thought about it- The sub conscious. No one has ever experienced body flight, or throwing a fireball, but however we imagine it to be, it happens.) -Sorry Wig, don't mean to seem combative, it's just fairly simple IMO. http://forums.somethingawful.com/sho...#post326429676 In that post, he basically says he can't imagine what "green" is, but he can say that a tree is green. Maybe we're talking about different ideas, but without knowledge of ever having "seen" anything, no, a blind person cannot imagine it. I'd be like trying to imagine eternity or infinity with a finite human brain. A human being CANNOT fathom it. It can try, and it can pretend to (calculus limits and what not :-/) but no, it cannot imagine it. You can't imagine a line so big that it doesn't have a beginning or end. Show me links where a blind person says they can fathom colors. I have a feeling they're just "attributing" some abstract idea they can't understand. It's easy to say "I understand that a tree's leaves are green" than be able to truly imagine those leaves being green. It's even hard to "verbalize" (textualize?) what I mean. Also, how do you "imagine" something that is processed by broken cones and rods in your eyes? That's like saying that those without nerves can feel pain. As for being combative, don't worry about it. I'm not taking any offense...I guess I could saying it's "simple" and implying I can't understand, but I won't. :p

[Alprazolam]

Pointing to one individual to generalize a point is....innacurate in the least. But still I see where your coming from, and at the same time: Your basically touching the surface at what I'm getting at; Even if someone has never smelled before, the brain can Imagine what it would be like. Maybe it won't be "spot on" to the reality of the sense(Maybe even completely off), but there will be something that the sub conscious would pull from. There are plenty of stories of people who havn't walked since birth, doing it in dreams. Maybe it's not what walking really feels like to us, but it is something. You can Imagine, ANYTHING. Even sight. And in the dream world, you are dealing directly with your imagination- Your Primal Mind. I'll leave it at: Have you ever shot a laser beam out of your hand? Have you ever seen in 360 vision? Have you ever turned into another person? Can you do these things in your dreams? ( I know I can ) And no, I didn't mean that simple comment to come across like that in any way. However I think the only real way to test this out, would be to see if Nullbyte has never smelt since birth, and then cross our fingers and hope he has an LD where he tries to smell, and gets back to us! :} Y

[The Wig]

Pointing to one individual to generalize a point is....innacurate in the least. But still I see where your coming from, and at the same time: Your basically touching the surface at what I'm getting at; Even if someone has never smelled before, the brain can Imagine what it would be like. Maybe it won't be "spot on" to the reality of the sense(Maybe even completely off), but there will be something that the sub conscious would pull from. There are plenty of stories of people who havn't walked since birth, doing it in dreams. Maybe it's not what walking really feels like to us, but it is something. You can Imagine, ANYTHING. Even sight. And in the dream world, you are dealing directly with your imagination- Your Primal Mind. I'll leave it at: Have you ever shot a laser beam out of your hand? Have you ever seen in 360 vision? Have you ever turned into another person? Can you do these things in your dreams? ( I know I can ) And no, I didn't mean that simple comment to come across like that in any way. However I think the only real way to test this out, would be to see if Nullbyte has never smelt since birth, and then cross our fingers and hope he has an LD where he tries to smell, and gets back to us! :} Y I'm talking about senses, not random things that you can do. It's easy to imagine what walking would be like if you have touch. It's easy to imagine what shooting laser beams out your head would be like if you have any kind of imagination. But imagining something that you have no hint at, no idea where to even start at, and basically can't do simply because the mechanism for doing it is broken is just not possible. This really isn't a matter of whether or not the brain is capable of producing colors for the blind person to perceive. Plain and simple, if your rods and cones are broken, it's just not going to happen. This is all different of course if you have EVER seen before, and then your mind has memory to base it off of. I'm assuming we're talking about total blindness from birth. http://www.discover.umn.edu/searchAn...er/index.php#3 http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Does_everyone_dream_in_color http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...=1006011606233 http://www.rau.edu.uy/universidad/me...7/dreaming.pdf

[MoD]

No one has ever experienced body flight, or throwing a fireball, but however we imagine it to be, it happens.) Yes, but we have experianced wind and fire. Youre mixing things up VERY MUCH. A blind person cannot see colors (the one that has never seen). Like the previous person said, you can easily imagine what shooting fireballs out of your arm is like because you know about heat. You know what that feels like, so its only a matter of feeling heat in your hand and placing the visual of fire there. Even if someone has never smelled before, the brain can Imagine what it would be like NO! Youre so wrong its funnny. It cant, because it has no previous information to go on. Tell me, how does shit of an australian smell? Yes, you can imagine it, because you know how your shit smells like. But the ones who have never smelt before cant. Its as simple as that.

[Caradon]

The only limitation's are your own belief's. it's as simple as that. But some belief's are not concious one's. I think that he could smell in a dream, but your mind can play trick's on you. If he tries to smell, and is worried about not being able to. Then there is a good chance that he wont.

[Alprazolam]

*Sigh* So what your telling me, is that Nullbyte here, can not only NOT smell, but he can not even IMAGINE what smelling would be like? If you think not, then your wrong, ask him yourself. Thats the bottom line, he can imagine it, and even if its wrong, it's something. End of story.

[The Wig]

*Sigh* So what your telling me, is that Nullbyte here, can not only NOT smell, but he can not even IMAGINE what smelling would be like? If you think not, then your wrong, ask him yourself. Thats the bottom line, he can imagine it, and even if its wrong, it's something. End of story. Yes, that's what I'm saying. And where does he say he was able to smell? The brain cannot create a sense that it has never known. There is no evidence online that blind people can see in dreams (going back to blindness since it's easier to search than smell or anything else really). If I were to search studies/journals/books I expect to find the same. The brain is not infinite in its capacity to imagine. Of course, if he has smelled before, EVER, he can create smells by the memory alone. He has to have been born with an inability to smell for this to be correct, which is what I've been saying the whole time.

[Alprazolam]

Still not what I'm getting at. I promise you, ask a Blind person (Or someone that has never smelt before, since thats the most relevant here) if they can try and just IMAGINE what it would be like. Why do you think Blind people often ask people with site to describe things to them? (Answer this for me if anyone is going to reply. We already know the answer - because they are attempting to Imagine what site/smell is like. They may be TOTALLY off and not come anywhere NEAR what site really is, but they are thinking of SOMETHING.) Yes, I promise, you can IMAGINE anything, even if it's incorrect or way off.

[nullbyte00]

Yes, I could not smell since birth (although, maybe I could for the first few months of my life but I just don't remember). I have tried to imagine what smelling is like, and based on the description of "it is like tasting but with your nose" I still can't imagine what it would be like

[The Wig]

Still not what I'm getting at. I promise you, ask a Blind person (Or someone that has never smelt before, since thats the most relevant here) if they can try and just IMAGINE what it would be like. Why do you think Blind people often ask people with site to describe things to them? (Answer this for me if anyone is going to reply. We already know the answer - because they are attempting to Imagine what site/smell is like. They may be TOTALLY off and not come anywhere NEAR what site really is, but they are thinking of SOMETHING.) Yes, I promise, you can IMAGINE anything, even if it's incorrect or way off. I don't think you have any idea what I'm talking about. If a blind person asks you to describe an item to you, it is purely to get the "feel" of it from their touch senses. They will not imagine any kind of object simply because they can't. They will imagine it in their hands, feeling it. If it is round, they imagine a spherical object by their touch. If it is a square, they imagine sharp edges touching their hands to get an idea. They will not imagine a 3-D object in their head simply because they have never seen it before. Therefore, they cannot get it wrong simply because they do not have the capacity to even imagine up an object to get wrong. The human brain is wonderful and powerful, but it can't conjure up images that it has never understood. The moment you're born you start to understand things and process them. The brain can't process something it has no understanding of. It therefore cannot process an image. This is the reason blind people do not dream in color or landscapes and the like. They simply cannot. They dream in sense, smell, touch, taste, etc. Like I said, can you imagine infinity and eternity? No, you cannot. There's a reason for that. We do not have the capability to do so. When people say they will live for eternity in the Kingdom of Heaven or whatever, they just mean "a real long time" since no one has a concept of eternity. This is the same reason no one understands (or ever could be able to) what happened before time began. Time is infinite and therefore cannot be understand simply because the brain is not infinite. I can assure you, you're putting far too much stock in the human brain Xanax. You can promise me something all day long, doesn't make it true. Oh and nullbyte00's post - as you said before, just 'cause someone says something online doesn't make it true. Right? As for that post, if you're imagining what it's like to "taste with your nose", it's not anything like that. Xanax may say it's "something" and thefore relevant, but it's not at all. That's like saying to a blind person, "It's like touching, but with your eyes!" All the senses are related, but that doesn't mean they cross over...unless you have synaesthesia. Touch is highly related to seeing, smell to taste, feeling for touch, etc etc, but that doesn't mean the absense of one takes over for the other.

[Lonewolf]

Can you tase? Because 90% of what we call "taste" is actualy smell so im sure you still have it.

[nullbyte00]

Can you tase? Because 90% of what we call "taste" is actualy smell so im sure you still have it. Yes, I can.

[Abra]

To try to put and end to the whole senses in dreams war this thread has started, I propose a solution: People who are completely blind/deaf cannot experience these senses in a dream, because they have no experience to relate it to. People who have never taken drugs can experience these senses, because I'm sure they can piece together a similar experience (euphoria, hallucinations, etc.) and expand off of that. People who do not have a sense of smell, but can taste, may be able to transfer their sense to their nose if they try to imagine smelling in a dream. People who have never walked can dream of walking because they've seen how other people walk. The bottom line is, the brain needs some relation to base the dream senses off of. Totally blind people who have never seen (along with the probable deterioration of vision centers in their occipital lobe) are highly unlikely to be able to see in their dreams. (Think of it as me asking you to try and pylomaner. You have no clue what this made-up word is, and cannot pull up any relative concepts. So you cannot do it in a dream. You may create your own definition for such a concept *perhaps blind people that report dreaming in color do this as well*, but you will never be able to pylomaner as your brain does not share any examples/concepts/experiences to base it off of) People that can pull up an experience that they know is similar to what they are trying to dream will be able to do so, based off of their experience and expansion.

[Alprazolam]

My point exactly- He can relate smelling to taste. Even if its really hard to do, or it doesn't seem like it's possible, he can try and imagine it. I do not mean by a blind man imagining something, he actually SEEING anything. But, there is SOMETHING going on in his brain. As for this stiuation, I am sure he would be able to attain some sort of idea of smelling in a dream. Why? Because he knows what taste is, and as stated in fact smelling is 90% taste. JUST LIKE I know what heat feels like and fire looks like, therfore I can throw a fireball in my dream. In a dream I am SURE this is possible. His minds interpretation of smelling may be completely innacurate, which I have stated from the beginning- But it is SOMETHING. As for what Abra said, I am going to go ahead and drop the disagreement because it really isn't contributing in any way....... I mean no disrespect towards anyone this whole thread. Sometimes people just disagree, and we can just agree to disagree:p Good luck Null

[someweirdsin]

Sounds like you better try smelling something in a dream then, and let us know what happens.

[The Wig]

My point exactly- He can relate smelling to taste. Even if its really hard to do, or it doesn't seem like it's possible, he can try and imagine it. I do not mean by a blind man imagining something, he actually SEEING anything. But, there is SOMETHING going on in his brain. As for this stiuation, I am sure he would be able to attain some sort of idea of smelling in a dream. Why? Because he knows what taste is, and as stated in fact smelling is 90% taste. JUST LIKE I know what heat feels like and fire looks like, therfore I can throw a fireball in my dream. In a dream I am SURE this is possible. His minds interpretation of smelling may be completely innacurate, which I have stated from the beginning- But it is SOMETHING. As for what Abra said, I am going to go ahead and drop the disagreement because it really isn't contributing in any way....... I mean no disrespect towards anyone this whole thread. Sometimes people just disagree, and we can just agree to disagree:p Good luck Null We sure can.

[nullbyte00]

Sounds like you better try smelling something in a dream then, and let us know what happens. If I can ever get a damn lucid dream >:\ I've been trying for 2 weeks so far, and nothing!

[Adrenaline Junkie]

i think that when i'm next lucid my senses will slowly unlock, i will see things with my eyes and i will touch something which will bring my sense of touch and then my sense of smell and taste will kick in, i think its so awesome how you can make it very realistic in the dream.