Thread: if LDing is real then what about. . .

Originally Posted by magicdood

Good point TheWig.

The point remains, however, that we are made up of energy. Matter is made up of energy.

Matter isn't made up of energy.

All we see is that matter is made up of an incredible amount of nothing. It's basically nonexistent as far as we know.

Oh yes it is. Matter is most certainly made up of energy. Atoms are energy...well space..and energy to clarify. Yes, we are energy. Do some research there bud.

Originally Posted by magicdood

Oh yes it is. Matter is most certainly made up of energy. Atoms are energy...well space..and energy to clarify. Yes, we are energy. Do some research there bud.

Support your claim or don't bother posting it. I've supported mine yet you are steadfast in just either in posting (thusfar) unsubstantiated claims.

Holy crap, 230 posts in two days? and counting? I'll confess right up front that I did not read anything but the first two posts. I'll comment on them.

Originally Posted by Needcatscan

That's where LDing comes in: "waking up in your dream? That's called being awake!"

What do you guys think?

While "awake in one's dreams" makes an attractive marketing slogan, it's somewhat of a misnomer. Lucid dreaming is being conscious of the reality that one is dreaming during the dream state. Being awake means to not be asleep.

As most people are aware, you can be wide awake yet not be conscious of what's going on around you. So "conscious" and "awake" are not the same thing and shouldn't be confused with each other. They often go hand and hand but they are different.

Originally Posted by Marvo

Lucid-dreaming is not to be awake when you sleep, but to be aware when you dream.

The difference? I can say, that I'm always aware when I dream, I'm in complete control of my dream-body, I just rarely realise that I'm in a dream. Point being, if you can think you are awake in a dream (which we do most of them time), then can't you also think that you're dreaming?

Unlike stuff like telekenisis and all that other stuff, the science and explenations behind lucid dreaming makes perfect sense.

Just a nod of agreement. Dreaming is another state of awareness, that's all. Awareness is a higher form of consciousness.

Actually both Japanese and Chinese beliefs state that " The human body has an energy known as " Chi, Qi, or Ki ".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qi

If you go down further you will also see some martial arts it is used in.

Yep...martial arts use Chi and make energy balls all the time. It's an easy practice, used a lot of the time as is just considered normal.

It's all making sense to me now. I didn't realize we were talking about anime.

Originally Posted by Chaos Theory

Actually both Japanese and Chinese beliefs state that " The human body has an energy known as " Chi, Qi, or Ki ".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qi

If you go down further you will also see some martial arts it is used in.

There is so much wrong with this I don't know where to begin.

Haha Skysaw. Pretty clever..

Originally Posted by Oneironaught

Holy crap, 230 posts in two days? and counting? I'll confess right up front that I did not read anything but the first two posts. I'll comment on them.


While "awake in one's dreams" makes an attractive marketing slogan, it's somewhat of a misnomer. Lucid dreaming is being conscious of the reality that one is dreaming during the dream state. Being awake means to not be asleep.

As most people are aware, you can be wide awake yet not be conscious of what's going on around you. So "conscious" and "awake" are not the same thing and shouldn't be confused with each other. They often go hand and hand but they are different.


Just a nod of agreement. Dreaming is another state of awareness, that's all. Awareness is a higher form of consciousness.

Okay, getting tired of people saying "you don't wake up in your dream, you're just aware your dreaming". Yeah, thanks guys, I do know what LDing is. My point is when you explain it to other people, in my case, most of them don't understand just "you are aware you're dreaming." You have to be more extreme before they really grasp what LDing is, hence why I put it that way.

And as far as the the rest of it goes, The Wig and MagicDood, you guys wanna get a room and duke it out?

Almost 250 posts in two days, dude, I rule!

Originally Posted by Needcatscan

Okay, getting tired of people saying "you don't wake up in your dream, you're just aware your dreaming". Yeah, thanks guys, I do know what LDing is.

Well ok then

Ugh matter is just a term. Energy goes deeper then that.


"Subatomic particles are simply energy packets. You are a cluster of energy, so is everything else. A cluster of energy is always in motion, moving and changing to form new configuration at every moment. The table that is in your dining room is not as solid as it appears to be. On a highly magnified level, you would realize that it is in constant flux, “losing” and “gaining” billions of energy packets, but intelligently maintaining the overall “look” of a table. There is a consciousness that keeps the energy in that particular form."

I'm sorry if the schools you have been to have only discussed matter in terms of what makes a body.

Originally Posted by ethen

I don't see how that answers my question Chaos, and in case you try the ol' of "your ignorant because you wont even try it, thus nothing you say has any merit" fallacy, remember that I have actually tried this (not those six lessons, mind you) and even if i hadn't, my points are still valid. I actually got it to move a few times. But as soon as the glass went over the setup, nada, even after much practice. And since videos of covered psi wheel can and are faked on a regular basis, such examples are moot. And thats my TK experience in a nut shell


Now here's the problem in a nutshell, seeing as its rather difficult to stress this point:

-Thousands of people claim they can perform telekinsis at will.
-Many dedicate their time to promoting and defending TK.
-Of these people, most are bothered by the fact that TK is not recognized as a legitimate phenomenon, especially in the eyes of sceince.
-Thousands of sceintists are willing to test telekinesis under sceintific conditions.
-This situation has been going on for decades
-Though there have been experiments, not one case of TK has ever been validated (or recognized by the sceintific community as being legit).

Its not unreasonable to consider this and be suspicious of TK, and it doesnt help that, even though such a phenomenon is so widespread nowadays, there is still no actual substantiation or validation of TK. Those big numbers aren't helping your case, they are hurting it. As more and more people claim to be able to do TK, the less likely the lack of scientifically sound evidence is due to "oversight".



Im not saying its impossible. At one time, germs weren't recognised by sceince either. But only time can tell. And please don't cite "what the bleep", thats movie made a mad-libz out of sceince.

I've never stated that you were ignorant nor do I call anyone by that even if they do not try it. I simply say say believe what you want. To tell you the truth I had a hard time learning Psi myself. In fact I used to practice it a few years ago. I began to gain interest as I became more skilled with it but to my dismay from a short week break I lost everythat that I had done so just quit.

And the Wig what is the matter with that?

Actually the Energy ball is part of traditional Ki excercise and usually not used in martial arts.

And to the oblivious one who stated something about Anime, I suggest looking up the term as I have said in previous posts, Rad ki. That is the Anime form of the Traditional Chi excercises ( Which of course you probably know nothing about considering you brought up anime. )

Originally Posted by TheUniversalOne

Ugh matter is just a term. Energy goes deeper then that.


"Subatomic particles are simply energy packets. You are a cluster of energy, so is everything else. A cluster of energy is always in motion, moving and changing to form new configuration at every moment. The table that is in your dining room is not as solid as it appears to be. On a highly magnified level, you would realize that it is in constant flux, “losing” and “gaining” billions of energy packets, but intelligently maintaining the overall “look” of a table. There is a consciousness that keeps the energy in that particular form."

I'm sorry if the schools you have been to have only discussed matter in terms of what makes a body.

Energy is just a term if you wanna go that far.

There is no consciousness in energy. That's foolish. Molecules are stuck together and the "energy" as you put it (matter) is confined to the space where it is placed.

Originally Posted by The Wig

Energy is just a term if you wanna go that far.

There is no consciousness in energy. That's foolish. Molecules are stuck together and the "energy" as you put it (matter) is confined to the space where it is placed.

Lol I'm done.

Goodnight.

Originally Posted by TheUniversalOne

Lol I'm done.

Goodnight.

Trust me, I know what you're saying. I know exactly what you mean and I know it's true. What I'm saying it's it's not random chance those atoms are staying together in the form of a table in the exact same position as always. Furthermore, I'm saying while the atoms and matter may have energy, they are not one and the same.

Ok, from what i've read this topic mainly centers around the "oogy boogy" aspect of lucid dreaming and i suggest it should be moved to the beyond dreaming forum. Anyway, as far as psychic stuff you see on the internet, it is completely fake, there is no conclusive proof of any human potential for telekinesis or any other extracerebral activity. The US government conducted a lot of tests on this stuff, one of the most well known of these originated in nazi germany where (now i'm getting into speculative stuff) it is rumored a number of scientists were conducting research on reading people's thoughts (obviously they didn't turn any results). The US recovered a few of these scientists in "operation paperclip" and it is rumored they continued research covertly with a few of these scientists on the "stargate project" (also didn't yield any results, you can look both of these up on wikipedia as they are both documented). I'm not going to say that there can never be extracerebral activity possible under any circumstance, however, I don't think this world has seen any of it yet, we don't use 10% of our brains, we only use 10% at any given instant, we use 100% of our total brain mass in a given week, genetically we were not designed for telekinesis, our brains are the exact size we use and nothing more, there is also no standard scientific explanation for psychic stuff (eg. electromagnetics/electromagnetic waves... etc), that's why it's very hard to prove and it gets into the "oogy boogy" range.

EDIT: I see people talking about "energy doing stuff". This is complete academic BS, "energy" does not exist, there is no such thing as generic energy, there is kinetic energy and potential energy, period. Electrical energy is just a derivitave of potential energy, even the strings in string theory are still a derivative of electrical energy, there is conservation of energy. The average human body contains aproximatly 1.2 volts in (indirect) electrical charge through ion interactions at any given time, during a seisure (where all nerves release energy) this can jump to over 10 volts, however for this energy to do anything to the world around it, there would need to exist a sort of biological electrical transformer, the existance of such in the human body is inconclusive, 10 volts is not enough to send a form of directed energy, period. Even though the body contains a remarkable amount of energy in storage (14 Megajoules per pound of fat) and is remarkably efficient at converting food to energy, 10 volts, even if it was concentrated on one point couldn't even pierce the skin, let alone create a field large enough to reach across the earth (remote viewing) or lift objects (telekinesis), or any other remarkable stuff... humans simply aren't built for it. The closest thing we have on this planet to "telepathy" is the electric eel.

All we see is that matter is made up of an incredible amount of nothing. It's basically nonexistent as far as we know.

EDIT 2: For the record, everything is made of energy (according to string theory), however matter (at least solid matter) is not as much "empty space" as one might think, the electrons outside of a nucleus occupy space, because of the continuous charge contour they create.

Originally Posted by trigotron

Ok, from what i've read this topic mainly centers around the "oogy boogy" aspect of lucid dreaming and i suggest it should be moved to the beyond dreaming forum. Anyway, as far as psychic stuff you see on the internet, it is completely fake, there is no conclusive proof of any human potential for telekinesis or any other extracerebral activity. The US government conducted a lot of tests on this stuff, one of the most well known of these originated in nazi germany where (now i'm getting into speculative stuff) it is rumored a number of scientists were conducting research on reading people's thoughts (obviously they didn't turn any results). The US recovered a few of these scientists in "operation paperclip" and it is rumored they continued research covertly with a few of these scientists on the "stargate project" (also didn't yield any results, you can look both of these up on wikipedia as they are both documented). I'm not going to say that there can never be extracerebral activity possible under any circumstance, however, I don't think this world has seen any of it yet, we don't use 10% of our brains, we only use 10% at any given instant, we use 100% of our total brain mass in a given week, genetically we were not designed for telekinesis, our brains are the exact size we use and nothing more, there is also no standard scientific explanation for psychic stuff (eg. electromagnetics/electromagnetic waves... etc), that's why it's very hard to prove and it gets into the "oogy boogy" range.

EDIT: I see people talking about "energy doing stuff". This is complete academic BS, "energy" does not exist, there is no such thing as generic energy, there is kinetic energy and potential energy, period. Electrical energy is just a derivitave of potential energy, even the strings in string theory are still a derivative of electrical energy, there is conservation of energy. The average human body contains aproximatly 1.2 volts in (indirect) electrical charge through ion interactions at any given time, during a seisure (where all nerves release energy) this can jump to over 10 volts, however for this energy to do anything to the world around it, there would need to exist a sort of biological electrical transformer, the existance of such in the human body is inconclusive, 10 volts is not enough to send a form of directed energy, period. Even though the body contains a remarkable amount of energy in storage (14 Megajoules per pound of fat) and is remarkably efficient at converting food to energy, 10 volts, even if it was concentrated on one point couldn't even pierce the skin, let alone create a field large enough to reach across the earth (remote viewing) or lift objects (telekinesis), or any other remarkable stuff... humans simply aren't built for it. The closest thing we have on this planet to "telepathy" is the electric eel.


EDIT 2: For the record, everything is made of energy (according to string theory), however matter (at least solid matter) is not as much "empty space" as one might think, the electrons outside of a nucleus occupy space, because of the continuous charge contour they create.

Continuing on the brain thing - apparently, if you ever used 100% of your brain power at a time you'd have a seizure an die. The neurons can't fire all at once or you're going to have a seizure. Hence, epileptics.

Originally Posted by magicdood

Oh yes it is. Matter is most certainly made up of energy. Atoms are energy...well space..and energy to clarify. Yes, we are energy. Do some research there bud.

Maybe a late reply but:

Scientists around the world just WISH that that were true. But it isn't. The fact that matter ISN'T energy is one of the hardest problems in physics, once which facilitates exotic theories such as the idea of the massive Higgs boson in order to explain mass.

Matter and energy are indeed convertable both ways, but this doesn't mean they are the same. Easy mistake to make, I don't think you're stupid for it. But it is a mistake nonetheless.

I really don't see how this got into a discussion whether mass and energy are interchangeable and what not.. All things are made up from strings that vibrate. And there is a TOE!!

Originally Posted by Chaos Theory

And to the oblivious one who stated something about Anime, I suggest looking up the term as I have said in previous posts, Rad ki. That is the Anime form of the Traditional Chi excercises ( Which of course you probably know nothing about considering you brought up anime. )

The word "oblivious" might also be applied to the person who was so focused on his own little world that he missed that the anime reference was nothing more than a humorous jab. Even a subsequent post saying "Haha... pretty clever" didn't clue this person in.

Trigoton- There is most certainly generic energy, whatever you may call it. Chi, qi, ki....or even psi.

It is used in Martial Arts around would.

Originally Posted by magicdood

Trigoton- There is most certainly generic energy, whatever you may call it. Chi, qi, ki....or even psi.

It is used in Martial Arts around would.

By used what do you mean? Martial arts are just trained movements, meditation, and fighting moves, it is of my opinion that ki is just a method of disciplining the student. There is no objective observable ki in the physical world; believe what you will in your tai chi class or whatever, but such ideas have no support in the real world.

Trigotron was speaking of well-known, observable forces and phenomena. Ki does not "most certainly" exist; I'm not saying it doesn't, but it is not observed.