Thread: if LDing is real then what about. . .

Guys, we never had evidence of anything till we created/found it. The first people had no evidence of anything. Yet they went out on a limb, tried it out, and found out that thing existed.

Psionics is relatively new. We are the "pioneers" so to speak. The evidence is being created, ya know?

Originally Posted by magicdood

Guys, we never had evidence of anything till we created/found it. The first people had no evidence of anything. Yet they went out on a limb, tried it out, and found out that thing existed.

Psionics is relatively new. We are the "pioneers" so to speak. The evidence is being created, ya know?

That's all well and good except for the fact that people have claimed various flavors of "psychic powers" for eons and yet, no one has EVER shown even the slightest bit of credible proof. NOT ONE BIT.

This isn't like lucid dreaming, where science was forced to wait until a reliable test could be formulated. Psi powers are supposed to be able to affect things which are external to the bearer of such powers. So - I ask again - where the hell is the proof? There is none. Psi powers are non-existent in the face of reason: until proven otherwise.

Fair enough. How can I argue with that? I won't.

To you, they are non-existent as you have seen NO proof. Fine. Fair argument, perfect reasoning.

To me, psi exists because I have seen proof. The proof I have showed myself, let's me believe in its existence. When I moved that can, I proved to myself that psi exists. So, yes, agreeing with your post, I can still believe in this.

And of course word means little to nothing on a forum board. I of course know that! But there is nothing more for me to do. I guess you'll just have to take my word for it...or not.

Originally Posted by magicdood

Fair enough. How can I argue with that? I won't.

To you, they are non-existent as you have seen NO proof. Fine. Fair argument, perfect reasoning.

To me, psi exists because I have seen proof. The proof I have showed myself, let's me believe in its existence. When I moved that can, I proved to myself that psi exists. So, yes, agreeing with your post, I can still believe in this.

And of course word means little to nothing on a forum board. I of course know that! But there is nothing more for me to do. I guess you'll just have to take my word for it...or not.

No one's going to take your word for it. To me, you're practically claiming fairies exit and live in my little toe.

Alright, and I'm fine with that.

Originally Posted by magicdood

Fair enough. How can I argue with that? I won't.

To you, they are non-existent as you have seen NO proof. Fine. Fair argument, perfect reasoning.

To me, psi exists because I have seen proof. The proof I have showed myself, let's me believe in its existence. When I moved that can, I proved to myself that psi exists. So, yes, agreeing with your post, I can still believe in this.

And of course word means little to nothing on a forum board. I of course know that! But there is nothing more for me to do. I guess you'll just have to take my word for it...or not.

Believe me, i would love to make a logical arguement for both sides of this debate, but unfortunately there is no logical arguement for psi powers. We cannot deny that you've seen something that appeared to be "psi", we can only suggest scientific alternatives for the phenomenon you have seen. Sombody (i can't remember who) posted that

Psionics is relatively new. We are the "pioneers" so to speak. The evidence is being created, ya know?

unfortunately, the thing about pioneers is they are almost always accurate in what they saw but almost never accurate in their explanation. You reference "pioneers", pioneers include ptolemy who saw the heavens accurately but incorrectly proposed that they must be the result of the earth being the center of the universe. This theory was later corrected by copernicus and galileo who figured out the real reason for the previously observed phenomenon. It is not the evidence that is being created, it is an incorrect theory about the observations that is being created, unfortunately since no other person observed this phenomenon there is no possible way that measures can be taken to correct your incorrect "psi" theory, you saw what you saw, then like so many "pioneers" before you conceived a theory relating the unexplainable to god/magic/psychic powers, this is the normal human reaction and there is nothing wrong with it, except for the fact that all of the above assumptions are wrong in the sense that they cannot be proven. What you percieve as psi may seem to a physicist as something else, a medieval cleric would percieve a rainbow as the work of god, but to a modern man it is simply a work of atmospheric light diffraction.

My point is: like so many before you, you assume that the unknown is god/magic/psi, and like every single one of these pioneers who claimed to have seen the work of god/magic/psi, you will be proven wrong, in time. This is because theories based on concepts that can NEVER be proved correct will eventually, given enough time, be replaced by even the most unlikely theories that CAN be tested and proved.

Hehe, Ok...we'll see about that. I can just sit here and laugh until that time. Do you know why? Because I've seen myself perform Psychokinesis. So I can just sit around until It's proven that it isn't real? Fine...we'll see how long that takes. Oh right, it won't happen.

So, while I have no argument that you can believe, you are simply not swaying my position. I don't mind saying that I will gladly kiss your feet when I am sure that telekinesis doesn't exist. But the fact is, I've done it.

I didn't see what I saw...I worked at it. I just followed a site, but before that, I had NO idea nor any experience with psi. I simply followed a site, believed in the possibility, and had success. I didn't create a theory around that. Start doing some reading and research before you start spewing out meaningless words please.

Thanks,
Brandon

Originally Posted by magicdood

I just followed a site, but before that, I had NO idea nor any experience with psi. I simply followed a site, believed in the possibility, and had success. I didn't create a theory around that. Start doing some reading and research before you start spewing out meaningless words please.

Thanks,
Brandon

Ok, you want me to do some research, however there is no scientific records of this ever being done... except this site you mention. What is the site?

EDIT: oh yes and i did watch the "best psi wheel video ever". It turns out that the guy that made it publicly admitted to faking it as a social experiment, he claimed that the skeptics were more fanatical in their belief that psi didn't exist than the believers, he also critized the skeptics for claiming they KNEW how the video was faked when they were all wrong. Personally when i watched the video, i thought "this looks good, he's taking extra precautions... however, the front two legs of the table, the guy's face, half the guy's body and his left hand are outside the picture, a real psychic would have no problem showing his entire body to show he wasn't cheating". I said to myself "i know this can't be real, and this guy must have figured out a smart way to do it, but it's a lot easier to say this video is wrong than to claim every other concept of physics in the world is wrong." He claims anyone who participated in the debate on youtube was a fanatic. However, i would much rather error on the side of physics, and i would rather be half right than not right at all, like the believers.

Originally Posted by magicdood

Hehe, Ok...we'll see about that. I can just sit here and laugh until that time. Do you know why? Because I've seen myself perform Psychokinesis.

[meaning]psychokinesis: used to distort or move an object[/meaning]

So, what exactly did you move with your mind now? Moving or distorting something with the mind would surely be something that could be demonstrated and - by virtue of demonstration - be observable by (and provable to) others.

Psychokinesis means "Mind Movement" or at least, that was the definition I was referring to. I personally, have rolled cans, slid cans, spun foil balanced on it's center, and things like that. And yes, I know that those things can be replicated with things like static electricity however, I took necessary precautions to assure that it was me.

Now, that's just my word. I highly doubt you will believe it. In fact I'm sure you won't. But what's the difference.