Thread: if LDing is real then what about. . .

Originally Posted by magicdood

Guys, we never had evidence of anything till we created/found it. The first people had no evidence of anything. Yet they went out on a limb, tried it out, and found out that thing existed.

Psionics is relatively new. We are the "pioneers" so to speak. The evidence is being created, ya know?

That's all well and good except for the fact that people have claimed various flavors of "psychic powers" for eons and yet, no one has EVER shown even the slightest bit of credible proof. NOT ONE BIT.

This isn't like lucid dreaming, where science was forced to wait until a reliable test could be formulated. Psi powers are supposed to be able to affect things which are external to the bearer of such powers. So - I ask again - where the hell is the proof? There is none. Psi powers are non-existent in the face of reason: until proven otherwise.

Fair enough. How can I argue with that? I won't.

To you, they are non-existent as you have seen NO proof. Fine. Fair argument, perfect reasoning.

To me, psi exists because I have seen proof. The proof I have showed myself, let's me believe in its existence. When I moved that can, I proved to myself that psi exists. So, yes, agreeing with your post, I can still believe in this.

And of course word means little to nothing on a forum board. I of course know that! But there is nothing more for me to do. I guess you'll just have to take my word for it...or not.

Originally Posted by Oneironaught

Yes, you can feel it. But, guess what? I can create that feeling throughout my entire body AT WILL. And that's not a joke, nor is it exaggeration. It's simply a relaxation/mental focus exercise. Nothing more - nothing less.


It's only an internal sensation created by the purposeful focus of attention.


What we are against is the mislabeling of phenomena. I don't think people are doubting the ability to "feel the energy". What's up for debate is exactly what that "energy" is. It's merely an internal sensation, not a created energy or manifestation of anything out of the ordinary.

It's like trying to claim the goosebumps are the effect of creating some sort of mystical electrostatic field of energy around ourselves. It clearly is not.

EDIT:

Clever as you think you are, the fact is that special viewers can be built to MAKE you see what's there. Can you do that with this magical, mystical ball of energy in your hands? I submit the concrete answer to be no.

I didn't state that I feel goosebumps. I stated that I felt a different sensation. I said I could never see, nor feel the energy. Just a different sensation. It's a very relaxing sensation indeed. I already know it's used as a visulization excercise. I've always wondered myself if it was really " Chi " or just a sensation my mind is forcing me to feel. Please if you feel that I am wrong, correct me. I do not want to give people the wrong impression of Energy arts, and not the false impression it is sometimes known for.

Originally Posted by magicdood

Fair enough. How can I argue with that? I won't.

To you, they are non-existent as you have seen NO proof. Fine. Fair argument, perfect reasoning.

To me, psi exists because I have seen proof. The proof I have showed myself, let's me believe in its existence. When I moved that can, I proved to myself that psi exists. So, yes, agreeing with your post, I can still believe in this.

And of course word means little to nothing on a forum board. I of course know that! But there is nothing more for me to do. I guess you'll just have to take my word for it...or not.

No one's going to take your word for it. To me, you're practically claiming fairies exit and live in my little toe.

Alright, and I'm fine with that.

I tend to leave all the doors open. Why not? Just make sure you don't seem crazy.

Originally Posted by Chaos Theory

I didn't state that I feel goosebumps.

I never said you did. I was giving an example to illustrate a point about bodily feelings and the way that they can be mistaken for externally detectable phenomena.

Originally Posted by magicdood

Fair enough. How can I argue with that? I won't.

To you, they are non-existent as you have seen NO proof. Fine. Fair argument, perfect reasoning.

To me, psi exists because I have seen proof. The proof I have showed myself, let's me believe in its existence. When I moved that can, I proved to myself that psi exists. So, yes, agreeing with your post, I can still believe in this.

And of course word means little to nothing on a forum board. I of course know that! But there is nothing more for me to do. I guess you'll just have to take my word for it...or not.

Believe me, i would love to make a logical arguement for both sides of this debate, but unfortunately there is no logical arguement for psi powers. We cannot deny that you've seen something that appeared to be "psi", we can only suggest scientific alternatives for the phenomenon you have seen. Sombody (i can't remember who) posted that

Psionics is relatively new. We are the "pioneers" so to speak. The evidence is being created, ya know?

unfortunately, the thing about pioneers is they are almost always accurate in what they saw but almost never accurate in their explanation. You reference "pioneers", pioneers include ptolemy who saw the heavens accurately but incorrectly proposed that they must be the result of the earth being the center of the universe. This theory was later corrected by copernicus and galileo who figured out the real reason for the previously observed phenomenon. It is not the evidence that is being created, it is an incorrect theory about the observations that is being created, unfortunately since no other person observed this phenomenon there is no possible way that measures can be taken to correct your incorrect "psi" theory, you saw what you saw, then like so many "pioneers" before you conceived a theory relating the unexplainable to god/magic/psychic powers, this is the normal human reaction and there is nothing wrong with it, except for the fact that all of the above assumptions are wrong in the sense that they cannot be proven. What you percieve as psi may seem to a physicist as something else, a medieval cleric would percieve a rainbow as the work of god, but to a modern man it is simply a work of atmospheric light diffraction.

My point is: like so many before you, you assume that the unknown is god/magic/psi, and like every single one of these pioneers who claimed to have seen the work of god/magic/psi, you will be proven wrong, in time. This is because theories based on concepts that can NEVER be proved correct will eventually, given enough time, be replaced by even the most unlikely theories that CAN be tested and proved.

Hehe, Ok...we'll see about that. I can just sit here and laugh until that time. Do you know why? Because I've seen myself perform Psychokinesis. So I can just sit around until It's proven that it isn't real? Fine...we'll see how long that takes. Oh right, it won't happen.

So, while I have no argument that you can believe, you are simply not swaying my position. I don't mind saying that I will gladly kiss your feet when I am sure that telekinesis doesn't exist. But the fact is, I've done it.

I didn't see what I saw...I worked at it. I just followed a site, but before that, I had NO idea nor any experience with psi. I simply followed a site, believed in the possibility, and had success. I didn't create a theory around that. Start doing some reading and research before you start spewing out meaningless words please.

Thanks,
Brandon

Sometimes I actually lagh at you people.. You tell me I cant do it, but I know I can because I've seen myself do it! XD You dont seem to understand theres no possible way to prove it to you though. Practice, and prove it to yourself.

I couldn't agree more gumby! It's hilarious when I hear someone tell me that telekinesis isn't real and that I can't do it.

It's funny, because I've done it myself...but again, I agree that they will just have to prove it to themselves.

I can shoot bendy straws out of my ears at will. No, I really can! If you think I can't, prove me wrong!

Yes skysaw, I understand that you can't trust all of what you read on the internet. I don't mind you not believing in me. Can you understand that? I do not care that you do not believe me. Now stop acting like I do. Thank you.

Originally Posted by magicdood

Yes skysaw, I understand that you can't trust all of what you read on the internet. I don't mind you not believing in me. Can you understand that? I do not care that you do not believe me. Now stop acting like I do. Thank you.

I will stop. Just for the record though, it's not just that I don't believe you have Psi powers, I also do not believe that you don't care I don't believe. Why else would you keep posting that you have them?

By the way, you have to admit that the bendy straw power would RULE!

Heh, yes that power would rule.

Also, I'm trying to get other people to practice and see the potential of their minds. Just because you are close-minded, doesn't mean you have to spoil the true abilities of our minds for others.

And I don't mind that you don't believe that I don't mind that you don't believe me. :p No really, I don't. Hehe

Originally Posted by magicdood

I just followed a site, but before that, I had NO idea nor any experience with psi. I simply followed a site, believed in the possibility, and had success. I didn't create a theory around that. Start doing some reading and research before you start spewing out meaningless words please.

Thanks,
Brandon

Ok, you want me to do some research, however there is no scientific records of this ever being done... except this site you mention. What is the site?

EDIT: oh yes and i did watch the "best psi wheel video ever". It turns out that the guy that made it publicly admitted to faking it as a social experiment, he claimed that the skeptics were more fanatical in their belief that psi didn't exist than the believers, he also critized the skeptics for claiming they KNEW how the video was faked when they were all wrong. Personally when i watched the video, i thought "this looks good, he's taking extra precautions... however, the front two legs of the table, the guy's face, half the guy's body and his left hand are outside the picture, a real psychic would have no problem showing his entire body to show he wasn't cheating". I said to myself "i know this can't be real, and this guy must have figured out a smart way to do it, but it's a lot easier to say this video is wrong than to claim every other concept of physics in the world is wrong." He claims anyone who participated in the debate on youtube was a fanatic. However, i would much rather error on the side of physics, and i would rather be half right than not right at all, like the believers.

Originally Posted by magicdood

Hehe, Ok...we'll see about that. I can just sit here and laugh until that time. Do you know why? Because I've seen myself perform Psychokinesis.

[meaning]psychokinesis: used to distort or move an object[/meaning]

So, what exactly did you move with your mind now? Moving or distorting something with the mind would surely be something that could be demonstrated and - by virtue of demonstration - be observable by (and provable to) others.

Psychokinesis means "Mind Movement" or at least, that was the definition I was referring to. I personally, have rolled cans, slid cans, spun foil balanced on it's center, and things like that. And yes, I know that those things can be replicated with things like static electricity however, I took necessary precautions to assure that it was me.

Now, that's just my word. I highly doubt you will believe it. In fact I'm sure you won't. But what's the difference.

Originally Posted by magicdood

Yes skysaw, I understand that you can't trust all of what you read on the internet. I don't mind you not believing in me. Can you understand that? I do not care that you do not believe me. Now stop acting like I do. Thank you.

We're not acting like you do. You do CARE if we believe in you or else you wouldn't keep professing that you can do it, and even two pages ago you asked us what you could do to prove it to us. You obviously care, so stop saying you don't.

Again, since you obviously cannot read very well, or do not take the the time to read every post, I explained that I said "What can I do to prove it to you", meaning, you guys just ridicule everything, so there is nothing I can do in order to prove it to you. I already stated that, but there it is again cause you obviously can't be bothered to take a little time and read it all.

Also, I've explained numerous times why I've posted what I have, and I see no reason to say it again. Just go and read my recent posts. And stop being so lazy.

Thanks,
Brandon

Originally Posted by magicdood

Again, since you obviously cannot read very well, or do not take the the time to read every post, I explained that I said "What can I do to prove it to you", meaning, you guys just ridicule everything, so there is nothing I can do in order to prove it to you. I already stated that, but there it is again cause you obviously can't be bothered to take a little time and read it all.

Also, I've explained numerous times why I've posted what I have, and I see no reason to say it again. Just go and read my recent posts. And stop being so lazy.

Thanks,
Brandon

I've read all your posts and everyone says the same thing: I believe in Psi because I can do it and I don't care if you believe me, but I'll keep posting about how I can do Psi and you can't anyway.

When have I ever said you can't? In fact, if you had read my post, I clearly stated that you of course are very capable of doing these things. Again, a sign that you didn't read my posts.

In fact, I'd be very happy for you, if you learned how do to these things and open your mind. It would sincerely make me very happy.

Originally Posted by magicdood

When have I ever said you can't? In fact, if you had read my post, I clearly stated that you of course are very capable of doing these things. Again, a sign that you didn't read my posts.

In fact, I'd be very happy for you, if you learned how do to these things and open your mind. It would sincerely make me very happy.

I've read your damn posts, I meant "you can't" in a mocking tone that you seem to use whenever you claim to do the impossible.

I do, do I? Well then, I'm sorry. It was not my intention to have a mocking tone. It was more so to say that I thought it was funny that someone would tell me that these skills are not real when I have done them. There was no mocking tone towards the statement that "You can't." So i don't really know where you go that from.