Thread: if LDing is real then what about. . .

Originally Posted by Astral__Explorer

Up to this day I can't understand how my mind could tell me to do something RIGHT now and save my life. I once almost go hit by a truck because I looked and then was about to cross but my mind and body told me to look agian and sure enough a truck passed a few inches from me. (This type of stuff happened countless times)

In 1979, a survey of more than 1,100 college professors in the United States found that only 2% of psychologists expressed the belief that extra-sensory perception was an impossibility. A far greater amount, 34%, indicated that they believed ESP was either an established fact or a likely possibility. The percentage was even higher in other areas of study. 55% of natural scientists, 66% of social scientists (excluding psychologists), and 77% of academics in the arts, humanities, and education believed that ESP research was worthwhile.

Ok, as usual you all know my stance on this stuff, and you all probably have a general idea what i'm poking at with these two quotes. However, all i hope is that i am considered "rational" by both sides of this debate, nothing more. With that said, let me explain why these two quotes are significant.

The first quote, by astral explorer, states his reason for believing in ESP/paranormal occurances. However, there is a reason that the academy of science recognizes only 5 senses, that is because everything that can be conclusively and scientifically observed can be explained by those 5 senses. I am a man of science, and by saying that i mean i am skeptical about what you might say i should be more "open minded" about. I share a common aspect with astral explorer it seems, that is the 5th sense, that of touch, is slightly more sensitive than the majority of the population, i am suggesting of course that astral can detect slight changes in air pressure. The brain acted quickly using this information, which caused astral to think for a second before the truck crossed where he would have been standing. The reason astral could detect the truck before he looked at it, i hypothesize is because he sensed the overpressure in front of the truck (quite larger and more noticeable than that of a car) and therefore hesitated before stepping. It is a known adaptation that some humans can in fact detect more minute pressure variations than others. I, for example can predict when someone is at my door before they actually knock for this same reason, i could feel the slight rumblings of human footsteps in the house, my brain interpreted these vibrations and eventually i can predict with a good deal of certainty when someone is right next to my door. Someone with a more "open mind" however would interpret this as "ESP".

Secondly, i would like to discuss the second quote from the wikipedia article. This is an unencyclopedic rationale for why parapsychology exists, it implies that because of a majority of professors in the soft sciences agrees that ESP is real, then it must be true, when in fact, this could not be farther from the truth. I rely on the example of galileo and ptolemy, just because the world agrees that ptolemy's geocentric universe is true, does not make it such. In fact this wikipedia article is increasingly biased by the fact that they only cite sources in the soft sciences and no physicists were cited. In fact, they parapsychologists themselves have a majority against their own philosophy while social scientists and artists who don't even study ESP are quoted for their beliefs.

In conclusion, i would like to state once more that we have 5 senses for a reason, not 6, 5. And just because some people (or even a majority of people) attribute some phenomenon to the paranormal, does not make those phenomenon such.

Originally Posted by trigotron

In fact this wikipedia article is increasingly biased by the fact that they only cite sources in the soft sciences and no physicists were cited.

Not to mention, it would be nice to see some numbers taken more recently than 1979! The seventies were the heyday of ESP belief. I'm sure popular opinion has swung much the other way in the past 30 years.

Oneironaught- I am not trying to force anyone to believe anything and it is becoming frustrating how you keep accusing me of such.

Secondly, just because I cannot prove this stuff to you does not mean I'm a fake. It hasn't been proven NOR disproven. Provide me evidence that psionics has been disproven.

Now, the fact that you cannot provide that evidence does not mean that psionics is real. Definitely not. But the point is, you should keep an open mind before you are 100% sure that it is fake. I mean, you sit here telling me so confidently that it is not real, but what have you done to accept that theory. I mean, just hearing someone say that it sounds ridiculous to perform PK should not be enough to make you not believe. At least I have personal experience and personal proof to back up my beliefs. And sure, you might have tried to perform PK/psionics with limited to no success, but how can I be sure that you fully believed in what you were doing or actually tried your hardest using techniques that work.? I can't. I simply can't trust your word that you had no success despite your most valiant efforts.

Now, I am not forcing you to believe, nor do I mind you not believing. I hope that can be straightened up from this concise statement.

All I am saying is that, personally, I know that these things are real. If I can help another open-minded person to realize that, then great. But like you said, I don't wanna have to force these opinions of validity on people, and I will not seek the media nor scientist to do so.

Re-cap- I don't mind you not believing in these abilities, and I am not forcing my views. I understand that you have limited reason to believe what I am saying. I am simply trying to help others realize the potential of their minds by their own accord and their own willingness to accept the "challenge" of practicing these abilities. If you do not want to believe, then that is absolutely fine. But please stop making false accusations about me saying that I am mocking anyone or trying to force my beliefs. It's quite annoying.

Brandon