Thread: new color?

in reality our minds are bound to the laws of physics and laws of science and matter and space and time.

However in a dream our minds are in another relm.

For example although in real life we see the color red its actually atoms that make up our brain that interact with each other and interpret these colors to give meaning to them.

But if we cut the middle man (the actual color) its our brain that actually makes the color. Its hard to explain, but red doesnt exist its our minds that make the color red.

Its the brain that makes red

So my question is can our minds make another color that doesnt exist according to the light spectrum.

Who's to say that these atoms cant interact in another way to make a different color

While we are awake our brain uses external sensory input to make sense of the world around us, but in dreams everything is interenal, whats holding us back from seeing new colors?

For example if someone did see a new color in his dream, how could he explain that color to us? he cant say "it was a mix of blue and brown"

This is a really interesting topic, because science alone cant anwser this, i mean do we really feel pain? or is it atoms that interact with each other that makes the paradoxial feeling of pain

What is Feeling?

thats a good question
its all laws of physics and whos to say that we cant break those laws
thats what i beleive, but monks do it all the time, All feeling is, its an electrochemical signal sent to your body. thats all it is, your brain telling you you CANTdo something....

I would look at it the other way around. There is an infinite spectrum of light that we see every day. The limiting factor is our brain interpreting and categorizing this spectrum. The only reason we see stripes on a rainbow, is because our brain can only come up with so many colors to fill in the infinite gradations between the wavelenghts of light.

I would say, its your brain that limits what colors you see, so it would be impossible to come up with a new one.

If you did happen to invent a new color in a dream, your brain would probably associate it to a certain wavelength of light in the real world, and you would start seeing it all the time.

What's interesting to me, as an artist, is that everyone sees color differently. Men are more responsive to cool colors (greens and blues) compared to women, who are more stimulated by warm (reds and pinks). This is not just a trained environmental bias. Men can see further into the ultraviolet end of the spectrum, and women can see the opposite- towards the infrared.

Imagine this- if my eyes are genetically more tuned to the long wavelength end of the spectrum, than the blue that I see, you would see as purple. The Green that I see, you would see as blue, and the red that I see, you would not even have a name for.

Very interesting topic…

I think sensing pain is not as elusive a topic as seeing colours and understanding what colours are. Experiencing pain has been explained quite thoroughly on a biological, chemical and physical level.
At least to me (as I’ve studied barely any physics) understanding even the basic nature of colours is much harder than understanding the interactions of sensory neurons, electrical impulses, the brain and everything else involved in the experience of pain.

I don’t think the brain is the most limiting factor in seeing (or rather not seeing) different colours, even though a person’s internal schemata affect the way they perceive colour (or wavelength).
The range of colours we are able to perceive is largely restricted by the photoreceptors (particularly cones) in the retina. Some reptiles and insects (e.g. snakes, spiders) can see infrared and ultraviolet light and the colours ‘in them’, because their cones’ peak sensitivities stretch further than ours. If our vision was similarly broadened from the tiny area of visible light we see to both the infrared and UV light (or even further) I can’t even begin to imagine the sort of colour circus we would face every day. Perhaps it’s in the interest of our mental sanities to have such ‘restricted’ colour vision.
I think the colours in our dreams might be restricted similarly, even if everything else is in the limits of our imaginations. How could someone imagine/dream something that they’ve never seen? This sort of relates to some of the threads I’ve seen around. Threads like “ Do blind people dream?” etc. Only we can’t get information about the possible new colours by gathering information with our other senses, so where would we start in order to comprehend the nature of these colours?

Any way I’m sure there are people here at DV who are much more educated on the topic than me, my thoughts are quite crude and unrefined at the moment, so I’ll stop here…

By the way if you’re interested in colours and dreams Howie has created a thread called colour quiz (in Research Team). It’s pretty interesting, you might want to participate.

Simply put, If your brain can't process it, (Real-life or dream) it can't be perceived. It could be perceived as something else. If you can't imagine it, you can't perceive it.

*sigh* You're getting yourself into a self-imposed whirlpool like so many other such topics I've seen here.

Your brain didn't make up the colour "red". The physical world has many colours. People in ages passed created language to interact with each other verbally and in more detail. Hence, the language is what makes the colour red to be called "red".

Colours are named upon observation. You cannot create something you don't know of. Thus, in a dream, interacting with your own mind, if you do not have an outer source, you will not "create" any new colours. Everything in your mind within this life is information you've gained from the world.

In essence, until someone shows you a new colour, you won't conceive it. Be it a new colour that appears in the world for your viewing or a colour you gain from an astral store of knowledge that you access with your mind...a new colour would come from a source independent of yourself.

Originally Posted by Merlock

*sigh* You're getting yourself into a self-imposed whirlpool like so many other such topics I've seen here.

Your brain didn't make up the colour "red". The physical world has many colours. People in ages passed created language to interact with each other verbally and in more detail. Hence, the language is what makes the colour red to be called "red".

Colours are named upon observation. You cannot create something you don't know of. Thus, in a dream, interacting with your own mind, if you do not have an outer source, you will not "create" any new colours. Everything in your mind within this life is information you've gained from the world.

In essence, until someone shows you a new colour, you won't conceive it. Be it a new colour that appears in the world for your viewing or a colour you gain from an astral store of knowledge that you access with your mind...a new colour would come from a source independent of yourself.

So if a person was born color blind, not because his brain was damaged but because his eyes have a problem would he ever see color in his dreams?

Here's an interesting thought:

How do you know that me and you experience the color red in the same way? Maybe i see red as you see blue. Or maybe I see red as something completely different to any of your sensations. Maybe even, i see red as you taste chocolate. Or you might feel cold as i hear the note C. Or you smell a rose in a way that I cannot even imagine.

There is no way we could compare our sensations - when we are born, we attach the sensations to things - we label them. So each time I see something red, i attach the meaning "red" to the sensation. Every time i see the something that corresponds to the wavelength of light which is the frequency of red, I associate the signal that the nerves in my eyes send to my brain with some feeling. The sensation is subjective, everyone might have a different feeling that they have been told is red. This is why everyone would recognize red, and be able to say that it is red, but it does not mean that they all experience it the same way.

Originally Posted by george

Here's an interesting thought:

How do you know that me and you experience the color red in the same way? Maybe i see red as you see blue. Or maybe I see red as something completely different to any of your sensations. Maybe even, i see red as you taste chocolate. Or you might feel cold as i hear the note C. Or you smell a rose in a way that I cannot even imagine.

There is no way we could compare our sensations - when we are born, we attach the sensations to things - we label them. So each time I see something red, i attach the meaning "red" to the sensation. So each time i see the wavelength of light that responds to red, i associate that with the sensation i have chosen for red.

At first, this seems like it would float.
There are too many comparisons that match one thing to another, day after day, hour after hour. Red, yellow and green lights. The list can go on. If in fact there was discrepancies, there would ultimately be confusion.
Just as you explained in your second paragraph, the confusion would be narrowed down and eliminated.
If an adolescences was taught incorrectly, confusion would ultimately follow at some point.

I slightly edited my original post..

I'm not sure if i understood correctly what you meant, I do not see why you mentioned confusion.

I did not mean there are discrepancies in your own perceptions - you always experience for example red in the way you are used to. It might differ from person to person, but the experience of one person would remain the same.

Originally Posted by george

I slightly edited my original post..

I'm not sure if i understood correctly what you meant, I do not see why you mentioned confusion.

I did not mean there are discrepancies in your own perceptions - you always experience for example red in the way you are used to. It might differ from person to person, but the experience of one person would remain the same.

Look at it this way.
When to parallel one color next to the other on a consistant basis you will rule out any discrepancies.
Much like numbers. If you learned them the wrong way, it would not work.
I know it seems unrelated but try to give it much thought and the process of how we learn association.