Thread: Can Lucid dreaming really change your personality?

Originally Posted by Loaf

And while your at it, why not share your reasons for why astral projection to Mars is real and I can how share dream with the queen every night through simply meditation. Those are other hole ridden ideas that people have no basis for believing in but do.

I decided to quote this first, because if this is indicative of the type of logic you're using, then it really isn't even worth my defense. This is an obvious strawman. It's actually kind of insulting. That you imply my theory (which apparently 'has no basis for belief', simply because you say it doesn't) is analogous to people believing astral travel and dream sharing is real (concepts which are completely unrelated to the discussion, and not even hinted at by anything in my post) makes your argument look weaker than anything said so far.

Originally Posted by Loaf

The question I was discussing was whether or not social interaction in dreams can allow for social growth or for the dreamer to deal with social situations better in reality. The answer is no.

You mean your assumption is 'No.' It is a theory that your are putting forth. It is an assertion that you are responsible for providing evidence for, or it is meaningless. You should probably stop stating such an assumption as if it is fact, lest you come off as hypocritical. It's also important to notice that I have not once made the declaration that dreams will help you socially. I have simply proposed the idea, and why it might be true. I have not 'stated it as fact', as you so strategically tried to imply.

You, on the other hand, have done just that, in your assertion that it does not.

Originally Posted by Loaf

Ambiguously referring to it as a "simulation" pretty much seals the idea that you are more interested in pointless word play than writing anything of substance.

No, it doesn't, because that's what dreams are. They are simulations. If someone can gain a real-life advantage from a simulation (whether it be a video game, a roleplay situation), it stands to reason that they may be able to do the same, from a dream. That you're trying to detract from this by implying that dreams are not simulations does nothing to counter the logic.

Originally Posted by Loaf

This isn't about my evidence. Its about yours. Its your job to prove your theory, not mine.

Wrong again. You're commiting the classic 'atheist vs. anti-theist' blunder; thinking that your position doesn't require evidence, simply because it is a negative one. The atheist doesn't require evidence, because absense of a belief in something is not synonymous with the belief in the opposite. Someone who says "I have no belief in a God" is not inherently saying "God Does Not Exist." Someone making such a declarative statement about the absense of God is subject to providing evidence for the theory. It is in the same vein that someone who says a flamboyant kid must not have had a father figure in his life cannot then turn around and say "well it's your job to prove to me that he did." It would actually be that person's job to prove that he didn't, or his assertion is insubstantial. In your case, you are making the declarative statement that lucid dreaming 'cannot' help you in waking life social situations. This is an assertion, and it is one that you are just as responsible for evidencing, as someone who argues to the contrary.
You see how that works?

But, with all that out of the way, I'll back up a little bit, and provide a little rationale as to why I think lucid dreaming may benefit dreamers in the waking world.

Spoiler for Stuff:

Lucid dreamers can deliberately employ the natural creative potential of dreams for problem solving and artistic inspiration. Athletes, performers, or anyone who gives presentations can prepare, practice and polish their performances while they sleep. This is only a taste of the variety of ways people have used lucid dreaming to expand their lives.
Questions on Lucid Dreaming within Psychology at RIN.ru

Present neuroimaging data suggests that this “non-real” information, or information not tied to any current environmental stimuli, is treated in a similar fashion as information processed in a real physical environment. Data from a neuroimaging study, specifically using positron emission topography (PET), supports the notion that when we imagine something of a visual nature and manipulate that image, our visual cortex is activated (Kastner et al., 1999). Likewise, in studies that control for actual movement, it has been shown that by simply imagining the actions involved in a repetitive motor task, the physical representation of the associated pattern of activity in the motor cortex increases (Pascual-Leone et al., 1995).
A question, then, is why would mental imagery of a physical activity activate the same brain regions as the activity itself? This double-activation would make sense if mental imagery reflects exercise/practice for the brain (or if imagining a thing and “really” doing a thing are not as distinct as many assume they are). By being able to practice a response, or exercise a part of the brain without having to physically experience a behavior-eliciting stimulus (especially one that is potentially dangerous), we can optimize mental functioning and, ultimately, our response to an actual
Evolutionary Psychology – ISSN 1474-7049 – Volume 3. 2005. - 64 - The Role of Dreams in the Evolution of the Human Mind
situation (Cumming and Hall, 2003). It is well known that mental imagery techniques greatly facilitate multiple aspects of performance from sports to music (e.g., Feltz and Landers, 1983). Further, the most successful individuals at creative endeavors are usually those that have the best imagery skills (Intons-Peterson, 1993). Thus, it appears advantageous to be able to create vivid representations in the mind’s eye of various scenarios, which in fact, is what dreaming entails.
http://www.epjournal.net/filestore/ep035978.pdf

Research on behavior modification treatment for phobias shows that it is not enough for a person to know intellectually that the object of their fear is harmless. Snake phobics may "know" perfectly well that garter snakes are harmless, but they will still be afraid to pick one up. The way to learn to overcome fear is to face it—to approach the fearsome object or situation little by little. Each time you encounter the feared thing without harm you learn by experience that it cannot hurt you. This is the kind of approach we propose for overcoming nightmares. Many anecdotes demonstrate that the approach is effective, and can even be used by children.
None of our proposed treatments for nightmares require that you interpret the symbolism of the unpleasant images. Much fruitful work can be accomplished in dreams by working directly with the images. Waking analysis (or interpretation while in the dream) may help you understand the source of your anxieties, but will not necessarily help you outgrow them. For instance, consider again the fear of snakes. The classical interpretation of snake phobia is that it is a disguised anxiety about sex, especially regarding the male member, and in fact most snake phobics are women. A much more plausible biological explanation is that humans come into the world prepared to easily learn to fear snakes, because avoiding venomous snakes has obvious survival value. However, providing this information doesn't cure the phobia. What does help, as mentioned above, is for the phobic to slowly become accustomed to dealing with snakes. Likewise, dealing directly with dream fears, learning they cannot harm us, can help us to overcome them.
Overcoming Nightmares

Agoraphobia
Agoraphobia is an unhealthy fear of being caught in places or situations from which escape may be difficult or embarrassing (such as being in a crowd, traveling in an automobile, bus, plane, or being in an elevator). The result is that these individuals are fearful of leaving their homes to work or even to run simple errands. North chose 60 subjects for an agoraphobia study with VR therapy [5]. Thirty were placed in the experimental group and 30 in the control group. The experimental group received eight exposures over eight weeks to a variety of scenes. Each test lasted approximately 20 minutes. The control group received no therapy. The Agoraphobia Questionnaire and the Subjective Unit of Discomfort Scale (SUDS) tests were used to measure therapy effectiveness. The students exposed to VR therapy reported significant improvement while the control group showed no change.
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Fear of Public Speaking
Frequently identified among the top most prevalent phobias, fear of public speaking was the subject of another study at Clark Atlanta University. Comparing control and test groups of undergraduates, subjects were placed in front of a virtual auditorium that gradually filled with virtual people. Simulation of room and crowd noise included laughter, commentary, and applause. The treatment schedule consisted of eight, 10- to 15-minute weekly sessions. Symptoms experienced by the subjects during VR therapy mirrored those which most speakers experience during public presentations. They include increased heart rate, lump in the throat, dry mouth, sweaty palms, loss of balance, and weakness in the knees. Two assessment measurements, the Attitude Toward Public Speaking and SUDS scale, showed significant reduction of anxiety symptoms and the ability to face the phobic situations after virtual therapy treatment. Subjects now report the ability to speak comfortably in front of large groups of people.
Overcoming phobias by virtual exposure

The proof, he says, lies in participants like Miss Muffet, which, of course is not her real name. She had been so frightened of spiders that she couldn't even approach a cage with a spider sealed inside, and past clinical efforts to help her had failed.
But by the time she completed the experiment in Hoffman's lab, she could hold a live tarantula in her hand, and she did that for more than 30 minutes.
Furthermore, her fear has not returned, Hoffman says, supporting a growing conviction in the clinical community that virtual reality can be a very helpful tool in fighting phobias.

Overcoming Phobias Using Virtual Reality - ABC News

There is no way around the notion that dreams are simulations. Are they exact copies of real situations? No, but what simulation is? As I said before, there are mounds of information backing the idea that simulations can help with real-world phobias, and I don't believe there is much reason to assume that lucid dreams would not fall into that catagory. I'm interesting in hearing why you do? (And whether you agree with it or not, this is completely relevant.)