Thread: Nutrients and Their Effects on Lucid Dreaming

Nutrients and Their Effects on Lucid Dreaming

(Edit: Sorry, but it really stretches the forum)

This is finalhope’s contribution to the world of lucid dreaming. It is meant to be a report to end all basic questions (Note: not discussion) about vitamins, and particularly B6. If it is deemed sticky worthy, then all shall bow down at the power of B6.

And yes, it is very fucking long. Enjoy.



The daily recommended dosage for many substances is below:

Reference Daily Intakes (RDIs)*
Nutrient Amount
vitamin A 5,000 International Units (IU)
vitamin C 60 milligrams (mg)
thiamin 1.5 mg
riboflavin 1.7 mg
niacin 20 mg
calcium 1.0 gram (g)
iron 18 mg
vitamin D 400 IU
vitamin E 30 IU
vitamin B6 2.0 mg
folic acid 0.4 mg
vitamin B12 6 micrograms (mcg)
phosphorus 1.0 g
iodine 150 mcg
magnesium 400 mg
zinc 15 mg
copper 2 mg
biotin 0.3 mg
pantothenic acid 10 mg

*Based on National Academy of Sciences' 1968 Recommended Dietary Allowances.

**Units:
I.U.'s: International Units is a term for measurement of vitamins that are fat soluble (do not mix with water and need fat for proper absorption). Vitamins A, E, D and K are usually measured in I.U.'s.

MCG: A microgram is a metric measurement that is 1/1000 part of on milligram.

MG: A milligram is a metric measurement that is 1/1000 part of a gram.




So...What do these do?



Vitamins

Vitamin
What the vitamin does
Significant food sources

B1 (thiamin)
Supports energy metabolism and nerve function
spinach, green peas, tomato juice, watermelon, sunflower seeds, lean ham, lean pork chops, soy milk

B2 (riboflavin)
Supports energy metabolism, normal vision and skin health
spinach, broccoli, mushrooms, eggs, milk, liver, oysters, clams

B3 (niacin)
Supports energy metabolism, skin health, nervous system and digestive system
spinach, potatoes, tomato juice, lean ground beef, chicken breast, tuna (canned in water), liver, shrimp

Biotin
Energy metabolism, fat synthesis, amino acid metabolism, glycogen synthesis
widespread in foods

Pantothenic Acid
Supports energy metabolism
widespread in foods

B6 (pyridoxine)
Amino acid and fatty acid metabolism, red blood cell production
bananas, watermelon, tomato juice, broccoli, spinach, acorn squash, potatoes, white rice, chicken breast

Folate
Supports DNA synthesis and new cell formation
tomato juice, green beans, broccoli, spinach, asparagus, okra, black-eyed peas, lentils, navy, pinto and garbanzo beans

B12
Used in new cell synthesis, helps break down fatty acids and amino acids, supports nerve cell maintenance
meats, poultry, fish, shellfish, milk, eggs

C (ascorbic acid)
Collagen synthesis, amino acid metabolism, helps iron absorption, immunity, antioxidant
spinach, broccoli, red bell peppers, snow peas, tomato juice, kiwi, mango, orange, grapefruit juice, strawberries

A (retinol)
Supports vision, skin, bone and tooth growth, immunity and reproduction
mango, broccoli, butternut squash, carrots, tomato juice, sweet potatoes, pumpkin, beef liver

D
Promotes bone mineralization
self-synthesis via sunlight, fortified milk, egg yolk, liver, fatty fish

E
Antioxidant, regulation of oxidation reactions, supports cell membrane stabilization
polyunsaturated plant oils (soybean, corn and canola oils), wheat germ, sunflower seeds, tofu, avocado, sweet potatoes, shrimp, cod

K
Synthesis of blood-clotting proteins, regulates blood calcium
Brussels sprouts, leafy green vegetables, spinach, broccoli, cabbage, liver



Minerals

Mineral
What the mineral does
Significant food sources

Sodium
Maintains fluid and electrolyte balance, supports muscle contraction and nerve impulse transmissions
salt, soy sauce, bread, milk, meats

Chloride
Maintains fluid and electrolyte balance, aids in digestion
salt, soy sauce, milk, eggs, meats

Potassium
Maintains fluid and electrolyte balance, cell integrity, muscle contractions and nerve impulse transmission
potatoes, acorn squash, artichoke, spinach, broccoli, carrots, green beans, tomato juice, avocado, grapefruit juice, watermelon, banana, strawberries, cod, milk

Calcium
Formation of bones and teeth, supports blood clotting
milk, yogurt, cheddar cheese, Swiss cheese, tofu, sardines, green beans, spinach, broccoli

Phosphorus
Formation of cells, bones and teeth, maintains acid-base balance
all animal foods (meats, fish, poultry, eggs, milk)

Magnesium
Supports bone mineralization, protein building, muscular contraction, nerve impulse transmission, immunity
spinach, broccoli, artichokes, green beans, tomato juice, navy beans, pinto beans, black-eyed peas, sunflower seeds, tofu, cashews, halibut

Iron
Part of the protein hemoglobin (carries oxygen throughout body's cells)
artichoke, parsley, spinach, broccoli, green beans, tomato juice, tofu, clams, shrimp, beef liver

Zinc
A part of many enzymes, involved in production of genetic material and proteins, transports vitamin A, taste perception, wound healing, sperm production and the normal development of the fetus
spinach, broccoli, green peas, green beans, tomato juice,lentils, oysters, shrimp, crab, turkey (dark meat), lean ham, lean ground beef, lean sirloin steak, plain yogurt, Swiss cheese, tofu, ricotta cheese

Selenium
Antioxidant. Works with vitamin E to protect body from oxidation
seafood, meats and grains

Iodine
Component of thyroid hormones that help regulate growth, development and metabolic rate
salt, seafood, bread, milk, cheese

Copper
Necessary for the absorption and utilization of iron, supports formation of hemoglobin and several enzymes
meats, water

Manganese
Facilitates many cell processes
widespread in foods

Fluoride
Involved in the formation of bones and teeth, helps to make teeth resistant to decay
fluoridated drinking water, tea, seafood

Chromium
Associated with insulin and is required for the release of energy from glucose
vegetable oils, liver, brewer's yeast, whole grains, cheese, nuts

Molybdenum
Facilitates many cell processes
legumes, organ meats



On B6

Defined:

Vitamin B6 - pyridoxine - is required for
Pyridoxine is required for the balancing of hormonal changes in women as well as assisting the immune system and the growth of new cells. It is also used in the processing and metabolism of proteins, fats and carbohydrates, while assisting with controlling your mood as well as your behavior. Pyridoxine might also be of benefit for children with learning difficulties, as well as assisting in the prevention of dandruff, eczema and psoriasis.

It assists in the balancing of sodium and potassium as well promotes red blood cell production. It is further involved in the nucleic acids RNA as well as DNA. It is further linked to cancer immunity and fights the formation of the toxic chemical homocysteine, which is detrimental to the heart muscle.

Women in particular may suffer from pre-menstrual fluid retention, severe period pains, emotional PMS symptoms, premenstrual acne and nausea in early pregnancy. Mood swings, depression as well as loss of sexual drive is sometimes noted when pyridoxine is in short supply and the person is on hormone replacement therapy or on birth control pills.

Deficiency of vitamin B6
Irritability, nervousness and insomnia as well as general weakness, skin changes such as dermatitis and acne as well asthma and allergies might develop when pyridoxine is in short supply. Symptoms may include nails that are ridged, an inflamed tongue as well as changes to your bones - which can include osteoporosis and arthritis. Kidney stones may also appear.

Vitamin B6 deficiency symptoms will be very much like those of B2 and B3. Vitamin B6 is needed by the body to manufacture its own B3 vitamin.

Dosage
The dosage underneath is the Recommended Dietary Allowance (RDA), but be aware that this dosage is the minimum that you require per day, to ward off serious deficiency of this particular nutrient. In the therapeutic use of this nutrient, the dosage is usually increased considerably, but the toxicity level must be kept in mind.

Males 2 mg per day and females 2 mg per day.

Toxicity and symptoms of high intake
Supplementation should be controlled as extreme dosage, such as in excess of 2,000 mg per day, may cause neurological damage.

People on medication for Parkinson's disease should be careful about taking Vitamin B6 as it can inactivate levo-dopa.

People taking pyridoxine late at night sometimes experience very vivid dreams.

Best used with
Pyridoxine should be taken together with the entire B group vitamins, and in supplementation the quantity of B6 should be nearly the same as B2, as the B 2 is needed to activate the Pyridoxine.

Vitamin C is a good partner in nutrition and magnesium, sodium, potassium, zinc, linoleic acid and fatty acids make good running mates.

When more may be required
Should you be taking antidepressants, contraceptive pills or be on hormone replacement therapy you may need more of this vitamin. As this vitamin is readily lost in the urine, it must be taken regularly to ensure an adequate amount in the body.

Anybody on a very high protein diet, using alcohol, or allergic to MSG (mono sodium glutamate) and/or tartrazine may also consider increasing their vitamin B6 intake.

Enemy of vitamin B6
Pyridoxine is sensitive to sunlight, cooking and processing Cortisone is known to impair the absorption of pyridoxine.

Other interesting points
Exercising may aid the production of the active form of vitamin B6.

Food sources of vitamin B6
Good sources to obtain pyridoxine from are brewer's yeast, eggs, chicken, carrots, fish, liver, kidneys, peas, wheat germ, walnuts,
[/b]

I am happy to see that people are using B6 to stimulate nerves and increase dream vividity and lucidity. However, do not be led astray. I am seeing uninformed people taking dosages as high as 500mg*, or even 1000mg!!! to induce lucidity, often in the presence of other supplements. These are often taken regularily. DO. NOT. TAKE. THAT. DOSAGE. You will cause permenant nerve damage. Not to mention you are taking a host of other chemicals with it if you are taking a supplement with multiple chemicals in it. This could be eventually lethal.

(500mg seems to be the boiling point. Some say it's dangerous, some say it's safe. If your not going to consult your doctor, I would say use 250mg as a ceiling for experimentation. I mean, the 500mg range is used to treat autistic children. Are you autistic? http://www.autism.com/ari/b6/b6studies.html )

That being said, B6 can be safely taken to increase many aspects of dreaming, lucidly or otherwise, both safely and positively. I would not recommend a daily dosage of above 200mg,(10,000% of the daily requirement.) and I wouldn't regularly. Maybe once in a long while, but probably not more than every couple of months. A much safer dosage would be 150mg (7,500%) every month or so. That would be my personal limit, I believe, and still quite a bit. 100mg is even more sane. Not to mention cheaper.

(The last paragraph was a little harsh, 200mg is perfectly safe to try, but not often without a doctors advice.)

Now a regular intake is a different thing. As you have read above, 2mg is the daily minimum requirement for the average person. That is - your body needs this much to function correctly. This small amount is taken in daily through foods. If I was to take B6 every night for dream purposes, (Meaning a base for all other dosages) I would probably take between 25mg and 75m. However, I don't plan on doing this regularly.

A safe plan for someone who wishes to experiment with supplements might be 100-150mg every couple of nights. Record and analyze your results as they will vary from person to person. Honestly, if they don't do much for you, before upping the dosage really think if you need the supplement, or could you do even better by switching dream techniques?

The people I see taking 500-1000mg of B6 usually have little if any experience with lucid dreaming. Many even report unimpressive results. This is because although they are using supplements, they forget some things that work 100 times better. Things like dream journals, MILDs, WILDs, and simple BASIC dreaming methods. That may also be why people who do use the basics report great results with just 100-200mg dosages. Many have seen results with even lower ones!



So what does happen with an \"overdose?\"

BBC:
How much is too much?

Scientific studies have shown that B6 can be dangerous in very high doses. One study suggested that long term use of doses of 500 times the recommended daily level may cause damage to the nervous system. A second study found adverse effects in humans from ingesting a dose as low as 50mg a day, although there are question marks over the methods used in this investigation. The government plans to limit the sale of over-the-counter B6 to 10mg doses, with a doctor's prescription needed for larger amounts.

[/b]

The next is from a source that is open to higher dosages, but I haven't seen many of these and question the source.

http://www.oralchelation.com/technical/vitaminb6.htm
Vitamin B6 is one of the few vitamins that can be toxic. Doses up to 500 mg per day are uncommon but safe, but doses above 2 grams per day can lead to irreversible neurological damage unless under the treatment of a physician. Vitamin B6 supplements should not be taken by Parkinson's disease patients being treated with L-dopa as vitamin B6 can diminish the effects of L-dopa in the brain. [/b]

This, I believe, is the best example:

http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/infocente...ins/vitaminB6/

Toxicity

Because adverse effects have only been documented from vitamin B6 supplements and never from food sources, only the supplemental form of vitamin B6 (pyridoxine) is discussed with respect to safety. Although vitamin B6 is a water-soluble vitamin and is excreted in the urine, very high doses of pyridoxine over long periods of time may result in painful neurological symptoms known as sensory neuropathy. Symptoms include pain and numbness of the extremities, and in severe cases difficulty walking. Sensory neuropathy typically develops at doses of pyridoxine in excess of 1,000 mg per day. However, there have been a few case reports of individuals who developed sensory neuropathies at doses of less than 500 mg daily over a period of months. None of the studies, in which an objective neurological examination was performed, found evidence of sensory nerve damage at intakes of pyridoxine below 200 mg/day (15). In order to prevent sensory neuropathy in virtually all individuals, the Food and Nutrition Board of the Institute of Medicine set the tolerable upper intake level (UL) for pyridoxine at 100 mg/day for adults (see table below) (4). Because placebo-controlled studies have generally failed to show therapeutic benefits of high doses of pyridoxine, there is little reason to exceed the UL of 100 mg/day.
[/b]

What does B6 do for dreaming, exactly?

http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/infocente...ins/vitaminB6/
FUNCTION

Vitamin B6 must be obtained from the diet because humans cannot synthesize it, and the coenzyme, PLP plays a vital role in the function of approximately 100 enzymes that catalyze essential chemical reactions in the human body (1, 2). For example, PLP functions as a coenzyme for glycogen phosphorylase, an enzyme that catalyzes the release of glucose stored in the muscle as glycogen. Much of the PLP in the human body is found in muscle bound to glycogen phosphorylase. PLP is also a coenzyme for reactions used to generate glucose from amino acids, a process known as gluconeogenesis.

Nervous system function

The synthesis of the neurotransmitter, serotonin, from the amino acid, tryptophan, in the brain is catalyzed by a PLP-dependent enzyme. Other neurotransmitters such as dopamine, norepinephrine and gamma-aminobutyric acid (GABA) are also synthesized using PLP-dependent enzymes (2).
[/b]

In layman's terms, B6 helps produce biochemicals that transmit information in your nervous system. They are the "wiring in the switches." The "PLP" is the other half of the B6 problem, but your body already has that. When the two come together, the biochemicals are produced. (Again, layman's terms, any biologists out there stay off my back!)





In conclusion: Vitamin B6, when taken in safe doses, and at the proper time, (Before you sleep) will "grease the dream gears" and allow for increased vividness, and perhaps even lucidity. However, the vitamin will not do this alone. You must use it in conjunction with tried and true lucid dreaming techniques in order to see results. A dosage between 25-200mg could be considered safe to try, under 50mg safe for regular (Every single day, as in not every three days or anything.) use. If you want to go higher for a regular use, please consult a doctor, or at least weigh the risks. (However, taking 100mg every week, or even twice a week would still be pretty safe.) If you plan on trying more than 250mg once in a while, again, please consult a doctor.

B6 should not be used by those pregnant, lactating, or planning to conceive. (In high, abnormal amounts.) It should not be used by those with serious disease without first consulting a doctor.


All this, mostly negatively said...I will be trying it, as it is safe in a controlled environment. I will be on the lookout for 100-150mg supplements of B6 alone. It is safe to try, by yes, even you, if you limit it.


This is the end of my report, note that I am not a doctor, but a concerned individual. Good luck to all, and happy dreaming to everyone!


Follow Up:
As stated before, this essay is mainly a negative one, to prevent substance abuse, but taking 200-300mg of B6 won't kill you or anything. I plan on taking 200mg, actually...but not regularily. Be safe, and be smart!