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    1. #1
      Member finalhope's Avatar
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      Nutrients and Their Effects on Lucid Dreaming

      Nutrients and Their Effects on Lucid Dreaming

      (Edit: Sorry, but it really stretches the forum)

      This is finalhope’s contribution to the world of lucid dreaming. It is meant to be a report to end all basic questions (Note: not discussion) about vitamins, and particularly B6. If it is deemed sticky worthy, then all shall bow down at the power of B6.

      And yes, it is very fucking long. Enjoy.

      The daily recommended dosage for many substances is below:

      Reference Daily Intakes (RDIs)*
      Nutrient Amount
      vitamin A 5,000 International Units (IU)
      vitamin C 60 milligrams (mg)
      thiamin 1.5 mg
      riboflavin 1.7 mg
      niacin 20 mg
      calcium 1.0 gram (g)
      iron 18 mg
      vitamin D 400 IU
      vitamin E 30 IU
      vitamin B6 2.0 mg
      folic acid 0.4 mg
      vitamin B12 6 micrograms (mcg)
      phosphorus 1.0 g
      iodine 150 mcg
      magnesium 400 mg
      zinc 15 mg
      copper 2 mg
      biotin 0.3 mg
      pantothenic acid 10 mg

      *Based on National Academy of Sciences' 1968 Recommended Dietary Allowances.

      I.U.'s: International Units is a term for measurement of vitamins that are fat soluble (do not mix with water and need fat for proper absorption). Vitamins A, E, D and K are usually measured in I.U.'s.

      MCG: A microgram is a metric measurement that is 1/1000 part of on milligram.

      MG: A milligram is a metric measurement that is 1/1000 part of a gram.

      So...What do these do?


      What the vitamin does
      Significant food sources

      B1 (thiamin)
      Supports energy metabolism and nerve function
      spinach, green peas, tomato juice, watermelon, sunflower seeds, lean ham, lean pork chops, soy milk

      B2 (riboflavin)
      Supports energy metabolism, normal vision and skin health
      spinach, broccoli, mushrooms, eggs, milk, liver, oysters, clams

      B3 (niacin)
      Supports energy metabolism, skin health, nervous system and digestive system
      spinach, potatoes, tomato juice, lean ground beef, chicken breast, tuna (canned in water), liver, shrimp

      Energy metabolism, fat synthesis, amino acid metabolism, glycogen synthesis
      widespread in foods

      Pantothenic Acid
      Supports energy metabolism
      widespread in foods

      B6 (pyridoxine)
      Amino acid and fatty acid metabolism, red blood cell production
      bananas, watermelon, tomato juice, broccoli, spinach, acorn squash, potatoes, white rice, chicken breast

      Supports DNA synthesis and new cell formation
      tomato juice, green beans, broccoli, spinach, asparagus, okra, black-eyed peas, lentils, navy, pinto and garbanzo beans

      Used in new cell synthesis, helps break down fatty acids and amino acids, supports nerve cell maintenance
      meats, poultry, fish, shellfish, milk, eggs

      C (ascorbic acid)
      Collagen synthesis, amino acid metabolism, helps iron absorption, immunity, antioxidant
      spinach, broccoli, red bell peppers, snow peas, tomato juice, kiwi, mango, orange, grapefruit juice, strawberries

      A (retinol)
      Supports vision, skin, bone and tooth growth, immunity and reproduction
      mango, broccoli, butternut squash, carrots, tomato juice, sweet potatoes, pumpkin, beef liver

      Promotes bone mineralization
      self-synthesis via sunlight, fortified milk, egg yolk, liver, fatty fish

      Antioxidant, regulation of oxidation reactions, supports cell membrane stabilization
      polyunsaturated plant oils (soybean, corn and canola oils), wheat germ, sunflower seeds, tofu, avocado, sweet potatoes, shrimp, cod

      Synthesis of blood-clotting proteins, regulates blood calcium
      Brussels sprouts, leafy green vegetables, spinach, broccoli, cabbage, liver


      What the mineral does
      Significant food sources

      Maintains fluid and electrolyte balance, supports muscle contraction and nerve impulse transmissions
      salt, soy sauce, bread, milk, meats

      Maintains fluid and electrolyte balance, aids in digestion
      salt, soy sauce, milk, eggs, meats

      Maintains fluid and electrolyte balance, cell integrity, muscle contractions and nerve impulse transmission
      potatoes, acorn squash, artichoke, spinach, broccoli, carrots, green beans, tomato juice, avocado, grapefruit juice, watermelon, banana, strawberries, cod, milk

      Formation of bones and teeth, supports blood clotting
      milk, yogurt, cheddar cheese, Swiss cheese, tofu, sardines, green beans, spinach, broccoli

      Formation of cells, bones and teeth, maintains acid-base balance
      all animal foods (meats, fish, poultry, eggs, milk)

      Supports bone mineralization, protein building, muscular contraction, nerve impulse transmission, immunity
      spinach, broccoli, artichokes, green beans, tomato juice, navy beans, pinto beans, black-eyed peas, sunflower seeds, tofu, cashews, halibut

      Part of the protein hemoglobin (carries oxygen throughout body's cells)
      artichoke, parsley, spinach, broccoli, green beans, tomato juice, tofu, clams, shrimp, beef liver

      A part of many enzymes, involved in production of genetic material and proteins, transports vitamin A, taste perception, wound healing, sperm production and the normal development of the fetus
      spinach, broccoli, green peas, green beans, tomato juice,lentils, oysters, shrimp, crab, turkey (dark meat), lean ham, lean ground beef, lean sirloin steak, plain yogurt, Swiss cheese, tofu, ricotta cheese

      Antioxidant. Works with vitamin E to protect body from oxidation
      seafood, meats and grains

      Component of thyroid hormones that help regulate growth, development and metabolic rate
      salt, seafood, bread, milk, cheese

      Necessary for the absorption and utilization of iron, supports formation of hemoglobin and several enzymes
      meats, water

      Facilitates many cell processes
      widespread in foods

      Involved in the formation of bones and teeth, helps to make teeth resistant to decay
      fluoridated drinking water, tea, seafood

      Associated with insulin and is required for the release of energy from glucose
      vegetable oils, liver, brewer's yeast, whole grains, cheese, nuts

      Facilitates many cell processes
      legumes, organ meats

      On B6


      Vitamin B6 - pyridoxine - is required for
      Pyridoxine is required for the balancing of hormonal changes in women as well as assisting the immune system and the growth of new cells. It is also used in the processing and metabolism of proteins, fats and carbohydrates, while assisting with controlling your mood as well as your behavior. Pyridoxine might also be of benefit for children with learning difficulties, as well as assisting in the prevention of dandruff, eczema and psoriasis.

      It assists in the balancing of sodium and potassium as well promotes red blood cell production. It is further involved in the nucleic acids RNA as well as DNA. It is further linked to cancer immunity and fights the formation of the toxic chemical homocysteine, which is detrimental to the heart muscle.

      Women in particular may suffer from pre-menstrual fluid retention, severe period pains, emotional PMS symptoms, premenstrual acne and nausea in early pregnancy. Mood swings, depression as well as loss of sexual drive is sometimes noted when pyridoxine is in short supply and the person is on hormone replacement therapy or on birth control pills.

      Deficiency of vitamin B6
      Irritability, nervousness and insomnia as well as general weakness, skin changes such as dermatitis and acne as well asthma and allergies might develop when pyridoxine is in short supply. Symptoms may include nails that are ridged, an inflamed tongue as well as changes to your bones - which can include osteoporosis and arthritis. Kidney stones may also appear.

      Vitamin B6 deficiency symptoms will be very much like those of B2 and B3. Vitamin B6 is needed by the body to manufacture its own B3 vitamin.

      The dosage underneath is the Recommended Dietary Allowance (RDA), but be aware that this dosage is the minimum that you require per day, to ward off serious deficiency of this particular nutrient. In the therapeutic use of this nutrient, the dosage is usually increased considerably, but the toxicity level must be kept in mind.

      Males 2 mg per day and females 2 mg per day.

      Toxicity and symptoms of high intake
      Supplementation should be controlled as extreme dosage, such as in excess of 2,000 mg per day, may cause neurological damage.

      People on medication for Parkinson's disease should be careful about taking Vitamin B6 as it can inactivate levo-dopa.

      People taking pyridoxine late at night sometimes experience very vivid dreams.

      Best used with
      Pyridoxine should be taken together with the entire B group vitamins, and in supplementation the quantity of B6 should be nearly the same as B2, as the B 2 is needed to activate the Pyridoxine.

      Vitamin C is a good partner in nutrition and magnesium, sodium, potassium, zinc, linoleic acid and fatty acids make good running mates.

      When more may be required
      Should you be taking antidepressants, contraceptive pills or be on hormone replacement therapy you may need more of this vitamin. As this vitamin is readily lost in the urine, it must be taken regularly to ensure an adequate amount in the body.

      Anybody on a very high protein diet, using alcohol, or allergic to MSG (mono sodium glutamate) and/or tartrazine may also consider increasing their vitamin B6 intake.

      Enemy of vitamin B6
      Pyridoxine is sensitive to sunlight, cooking and processing Cortisone is known to impair the absorption of pyridoxine.

      Other interesting points
      Exercising may aid the production of the active form of vitamin B6.

      Food sources of vitamin B6
      Good sources to obtain pyridoxine from are brewer's yeast, eggs, chicken, carrots, fish, liver, kidneys, peas, wheat germ, walnuts,

      I am happy to see that people are using B6 to stimulate nerves and increase dream vividity and lucidity. However, do not be led astray. I am seeing uninformed people taking dosages as high as 500mg*, or even 1000mg!!! to induce lucidity, often in the presence of other supplements. These are often taken regularily. DO. NOT. TAKE. THAT. DOSAGE. You will cause permenant nerve damage. Not to mention you are taking a host of other chemicals with it if you are taking a supplement with multiple chemicals in it. This could be eventually lethal.

      (500mg seems to be the boiling point. Some say it's dangerous, some say it's safe. If your not going to consult your doctor, I would say use 250mg as a ceiling for experimentation. I mean, the 500mg range is used to treat autistic children. Are you autistic? http://www.autism.com/ari/b6/b6studies.html )

      That being said, B6 can be safely taken to increase many aspects of dreaming, lucidly or otherwise, both safely and positively. I would not recommend a daily dosage of above 200mg,(10,000% of the daily requirement.) and I wouldn't regularly. Maybe once in a long while, but probably not more than every couple of months. A much safer dosage would be 150mg (7,500%) every month or so. That would be my personal limit, I believe, and still quite a bit. 100mg is even more sane. Not to mention cheaper.

      (The last paragraph was a little harsh, 200mg is perfectly safe to try, but not often without a doctors advice.)

      Now a regular intake is a different thing. As you have read above, 2mg is the daily minimum requirement for the average person. That is - your body needs this much to function correctly. This small amount is taken in daily through foods. If I was to take B6 every night for dream purposes, (Meaning a base for all other dosages) I would probably take between 25mg and 75m. However, I don't plan on doing this regularly.

      A safe plan for someone who wishes to experiment with supplements might be 100-150mg every couple of nights. Record and analyze your results as they will vary from person to person. Honestly, if they don't do much for you, before upping the dosage really think if you need the supplement, or could you do even better by switching dream techniques?

      The people I see taking 500-1000mg of B6 usually have little if any experience with lucid dreaming. Many even report unimpressive results. This is because although they are using supplements, they forget some things that work 100 times better. Things like dream journals, MILDs, WILDs, and simple BASIC dreaming methods. That may also be why people who do use the basics report great results with just 100-200mg dosages. Many have seen results with even lower ones!

      So what does happen with an \"overdose?\"

      How much is too much?

      Scientific studies have shown that B6 can be dangerous in very high doses. One study suggested that long term use of doses of 500 times the recommended daily level may cause damage to the nervous system. A second study found adverse effects in humans from ingesting a dose as low as 50mg a day, although there are question marks over the methods used in this investigation. The government plans to limit the sale of over-the-counter B6 to 10mg doses, with a doctor's prescription needed for larger amounts.

      The next is from a source that is open to higher dosages, but I haven't seen many of these and question the source.

      Vitamin B6 is one of the few vitamins that can be toxic. Doses up to 500 mg per day are uncommon but safe, but doses above 2 grams per day can lead to irreversible neurological damage unless under the treatment of a physician. Vitamin B6 supplements should not be taken by Parkinson's disease patients being treated with L-dopa as vitamin B6 can diminish the effects of L-dopa in the brain. [/b]
      This, I believe, is the best example:



      Because adverse effects have only been documented from vitamin B6 supplements and never from food sources, only the supplemental form of vitamin B6 (pyridoxine) is discussed with respect to safety. Although vitamin B6 is a water-soluble vitamin and is excreted in the urine, very high doses of pyridoxine over long periods of time may result in painful neurological symptoms known as sensory neuropathy. Symptoms include pain and numbness of the extremities, and in severe cases difficulty walking. Sensory neuropathy typically develops at doses of pyridoxine in excess of 1,000 mg per day. However, there have been a few case reports of individuals who developed sensory neuropathies at doses of less than 500 mg daily over a period of months. None of the studies, in which an objective neurological examination was performed, found evidence of sensory nerve damage at intakes of pyridoxine below 200 mg/day (15). In order to prevent sensory neuropathy in virtually all individuals, the Food and Nutrition Board of the Institute of Medicine set the tolerable upper intake level (UL) for pyridoxine at 100 mg/day for adults (see table below) (4). Because placebo-controlled studies have generally failed to show therapeutic benefits of high doses of pyridoxine, there is little reason to exceed the UL of 100 mg/day.

      What does B6 do for dreaming, exactly?


      Vitamin B6 must be obtained from the diet because humans cannot synthesize it, and the coenzyme, PLP plays a vital role in the function of approximately 100 enzymes that catalyze essential chemical reactions in the human body (1, 2). For example, PLP functions as a coenzyme for glycogen phosphorylase, an enzyme that catalyzes the release of glucose stored in the muscle as glycogen. Much of the PLP in the human body is found in muscle bound to glycogen phosphorylase. PLP is also a coenzyme for reactions used to generate glucose from amino acids, a process known as gluconeogenesis.

      Nervous system function

      The synthesis of the neurotransmitter, serotonin, from the amino acid, tryptophan, in the brain is catalyzed by a PLP-dependent enzyme. Other neurotransmitters such as dopamine, norepinephrine and gamma-aminobutyric acid (GABA) are also synthesized using PLP-dependent enzymes (2).
      In layman's terms, B6 helps produce biochemicals that transmit information in your nervous system. They are the "wiring in the switches." The "PLP" is the other half of the B6 problem, but your body already has that. When the two come together, the biochemicals are produced. (Again, layman's terms, any biologists out there stay off my back!)

      In conclusion: Vitamin B6, when taken in safe doses, and at the proper time, (Before you sleep) will "grease the dream gears" and allow for increased vividness, and perhaps even lucidity. However, the vitamin will not do this alone. You must use it in conjunction with tried and true lucid dreaming techniques in order to see results. A dosage between 25-200mg could be considered safe to try, under 50mg safe for regular (Every single day, as in not every three days or anything.) use. If you want to go higher for a regular use, please consult a doctor, or at least weigh the risks. (However, taking 100mg every week, or even twice a week would still be pretty safe.) If you plan on trying more than 250mg once in a while, again, please consult a doctor.

      B6 should not be used by those pregnant, lactating, or planning to conceive. (In high, abnormal amounts.) It should not be used by those with serious disease without first consulting a doctor.

      All this, mostly negatively said...I will be trying it, as it is safe in a controlled environment. I will be on the lookout for 100-150mg supplements of B6 alone. It is safe to try, by yes, even you, if you limit it.

      This is the end of my report, note that I am not a doctor, but a concerned individual. Good luck to all, and happy dreaming to everyone!

      Follow Up:
      As stated before, this essay is mainly a negative one, to prevent substance abuse, but taking 200-300mg of B6 won't kill you or anything. I plan on taking 200mg, actually...but not regularily. Be safe, and be smart!

    2. #2
      Bio-Turing Machine O'nus's Avatar
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      Oct 2003
      - Canada -
      Give that a more formal title and I vote for it to be placed in Tutorials.

      I'm going to keep this bookmarked myself, at least.

      Thanks for taking the time to compile this. Good job!

      You have been enlightening

    3. #3
      Member finalhope's Avatar
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      Jul 2004
      It BURNS!!!
      How about the new title?

      Thanks again for moving it!

      finalhope's dreams, and any MILD/WILD etc. experiences.

      Cry "Havoc!" and let slip the dogs of war!

    4. #4
      Member clarkkent's Avatar
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      Apr 2004
      Apparently Chromium can give vivid dreams. Perhaps it helps too with LDing..
      <img src=http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/4842/chloeviewskn9.jpg border=0 alt= />

    5. #5
      Member clarkkent's Avatar
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      Apr 2004
      Another important nutrient today is Co-Q10 (coenzyme Q10). It is good for the heart, the immune system, etc.

      If it helps overall health, then it would be good for dreaming too in a general sense.
      <img src=http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/4842/chloeviewskn9.jpg border=0 alt= />

    6. #6
      Generic lucid dreamer Seeker's Avatar
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      Oct 2003
      Great advice! I have been concerned as well about people advocating extreme dosages of B6.

      clarkkent, welcome back, long time no see!
      you must be the change you wish to see in the world...

    7. #7
      Member Mystical_Journey's Avatar
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      Nov 2004
      Swimming with Ducks in the Bath
      B6 is an interesting 'drug' to induce different levels of dreaming, i always find when i take a small amount of B6 before sleep my dreams become more anxiety based - like my awareness is clouded with "nightmarish " situations (being chased by monsters etc).

      The idea is that i become more "Conscious " of the fact i'm dreaming which somtimes helps to induce lucidity through Reality Checks.

      Great read btw finalhope - definetly information i wlll consider in the future.
      "I was looking back to see if you were looking back at me to see me looking back at you".

      Be Here Now

    8. #8
      Join Date
      Jul 2005
      I take 1000 mg of B6, and im fine, but maybe it has something to do with the fact that its in a vitamin tablet(6 to be exact, the normal doseage) but I usually get the best results with only a 500 mg doesage.

    9. #9
      Member seven3865's Avatar
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      Aug 2005

      I was wondering if anyone could point me in the direction of any studies that indicate extra B6 improves vividness and/or lucidity. I've seen some anecdotal and theoretical positions I just haven't seen the hypothesis tested.


    10. #10
      Member clarkkent's Avatar
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      Apr 2004
      I found this online - essentially at least one study found B6 increased dream vividness or improved recall :
      Vitamins and Minerals Can Improve Sleep
      By: Nikos M. Linardakis, M.D. Tharos Labs

      Taking proper vitamins and minerals may prevent trouble falling or staying asleep. Too much copper, especially if taken prior to bedtime, may increase the occurrence of nightmares by over-stimulating the creative areas of the brain. Foods, such as grapes and chocolate, contain high levels of copper. As a result, cutting back on these foods prior to sleep may help.
      Calcium, on the other hand, can help alleviate restlessness. A glass of warm milk at bedtime may help with relieving muscle cramps. For those who are lactose intolerant, taking a daily vitamin that offers a therapeutic dose of calcium may be a good choice. However, according to a study described by Dr. Carman et al., calcium supplements may slightly intensify agitation in psychotic patients. Vitamin D may also trigger such symptomatology.

      A magnesium deficiency can detract from getting a full, deep sleep. Symptoms may include waking up at the slightest noise, and sleeping additional hours during the day. Diabetics are especially prone to magnesium deficiency. They can acquire the magnesium they need through natural sources, including nuts, broccoli, spinach and fish.

      Every cell in the body needs the B vitamins (B1, thiamine, B2, riboflavin, B3, niacin, B5, pantothenic acid, B6, pyridoxine, B7, biotin, B12, cobalamine, and folic acid, folate)-particularly nerve cells. This is best exemplified by folate (the most common nutritional deficiency in the world). Women who are pregnant must have folate to avoid neural tube defects in their offspring. Vitamin B deficiency manifests itself in neurologic disorders, and thus, in sleep problems and muscle weakness. Vitamins B12 or B6 can also help in the therapeutic plan for depression.
      Ebben et al., investigated the effect of pyridoxine (vitamin B6) on dreams in a placebo-controlled, double-blinded study. The researchers examined if vitamin B6 increased dream vividness or the ability to recall dreams. A dozen college students participated in three treatment conditions (ingesting either 100mg B6, 250mg B6, or a placebo prior to bedtime) for a period of five consecutive days.

      Findings showed a significant difference in dream-salience scores (measures included vividness, bizarreness, emotionality, and color) between the 250mg condition and placebo. Vitamin B6 might increase cortical arousal during periods of rapid eye movement (REM) sleep, the researchers suggested.
      P. Chan et al. investigated the safety and efficacy of vitamin B complex capsules in a double-blinded, placebo-controlled study in elderly patients with severe nocturnal leg cramps. After three months of the study, 86 percent of the patients taking vitamin B had prominent remission of leg cramps, whereas the placebo group experienced no difference. The frequency, intensity and duration of nocturnal leg cramps were reduced. Vitamin B complex is a relatively safe and effective alternative, which clinicians should consider in the treatment for nocturnal leg cramps.

      Other studies suggest that vitamin B12 may maintain the homeostasis of sleep and/or wake cycles, improve the sleep quality and increase alertness in a work environment.
      Sleep deprivation has been associated with a reduction in niacin, and one of the manifestations is also seen with pelagra-dermatitis. Therefore, for those individuals who lack appropriate sleep hours, a dose of niacin could help alleviate potential problems.

      Restless legs syndrome (RLS), a neurosensory disorder, has been associated with iron deficiency anemia. Thus, RLS is often treated with iron. Reduced serum folate levels have been associated with pregnant women with RLS. Serum ferritin and folate levels during pregnancy should be reviewed to minimize the complaints of restless legs, and to promote more healthy sleep and better daytime alertness during pregnancy.
      Overall, a healthy equilibrium and functioning body requires vitamins and minerals to perform efficiently. If your body has increased stresses (smoking, overweight, emotional stress, etc.), then it likely requires increased antioxidants and other bio-available nutrient supplements to function at its fullest.

      Always remember, too, that the body needs adequate water. The simple concept of refreshing our bodies with essential H2O is one that is often overlooked. The "8 glasses of water a day" will allow the vital organs to work at their best. The end result is to feel much better both in the daytime and at nighttime while sleeping.
      In the end, make certain that the vitamin and mineral supplement is manufactured with USP and GMP quality, and contains appropriate amounts of nature's sleep ingredients like magnesium, calcium, vitamin B complex, and antioxidants.
      <img src=http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/4842/chloeviewskn9.jpg border=0 alt= />

    11. #11
      Member clarkkent's Avatar
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      Apr 2004
      Also B6 is known to play a pivotal role in making serotonin. Higher B6 levels are associated with better scores on memory tests.
      <img src=http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/4842/chloeviewskn9.jpg border=0 alt= />


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