cant seem to get lucid

**nerve** · 10-15-2003 08:16 AM

Originally posted by Dictionary.com

God

A being conceived as the perfect, omnipotent, omniscient originator and ruler of the universe, the principal object of faith and worship in monotheistic religions. *

so are you trying to say that God didn't create the universe because your little human mind can't comprehend it?

I would suggest, however, that consciousness is the concept that Adam and Eve embody. They ate a plant that made them trip. It's really not that spectacular. But our existence and evolution through the complex series of events that created the univers is absolutly staggering and holier the holy.[/b]

???

The creation story of Adam and Eve does not come from the Bible BTW[/b]

Genesis 2
1 Thus the heavens and the earth were completed in all their vast array.

2 By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested [1] from all his work. 3 And God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done.

Adam and Eve
4 This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created.

When the LORD God made the earth and the heavens- 5 and no shrub of the field had yet appeared on the earth [2] and no plant of the field had yet sprung up, for the LORD God had not sent rain on the earth [3] and there was no man to work the ground, 6 but streams [4] came up from the earth and watered the whole surface of the ground- 7 the LORD God formed the man [5] from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.
8 Now the LORD God had planted a garden in the east, in Eden; and there he put the man he had formed. 9 And the LORD God made all kinds of trees grow out of the ground-trees that were pleasing to the eye and good for food. In the middle of the garden were the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
10 A river watering the garden flowed from Eden; from there it was separated into four headwaters. 11 The name of the first is the Pishon; it winds through the entire land of Havilah, where there is gold. 12 (The gold of that land is good; aromatic resin [6] and onyx are also there.) 13 The name of the second river is the Gihon; it winds through the entire land of Cush. [7] 14 The name of the third river is the Tigris; it runs along the east side of Asshur. And the fourth river is the Euphrates.
15 The LORD God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it. 16 And the LORD God commanded the man, "You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die."
18 The LORD God said, "It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him."
19 Now the LORD God had formed out of the ground all the beasts of the field and all the birds of the air. He brought them to the man to see what he would name them; and whatever the man called each living creature, that was its name. 20 So the man gave names to all the livestock, the birds of the air and all the beasts of the field.
But for Adam [8] no suitable helper was found. 21 So the LORD God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep; and while he was sleeping, he took one of the man's ribs [9] and closed up the place with flesh. 22 Then the LORD God made a woman from the rib [10] he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man.
23 The man said,

"This is now bone of my bones
and flesh of my flesh,
she shall be called 'woman, [11] '
for she was taken out of man."

24 For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh.
25 The man and his wife were both naked, and they felt no shame.

oh? there it is, strait from the bible, plain as day. i can post the rest if you'd like.

you know, at first i liked you. at first i thought you were a very intelligent person. but after that little display of total and complete idiocy, i have lost all respect for you.

**Serinanth** · 10-15-2003 10:40 AM

I think what he was trying to say about the adam and eve thing is that many cultures have a man and a woman in much the same setting and story when it comes to creation myths. Not that other cultures have the same exact story with specifically adam and eve.

**wasup** · 10-15-2003 12:24 PM

Paperdoll, doesn't it take hundreds of thousands of years for evolution. (Bugs do it faster) It takes hundreds and thousands of generations to evolve doesn't it? So you really can't see any changes because the theory of evolution hasn't even been around for very long (I think). Also, (what do I know but it could happen) we are evolving right now. Our brains are growing and in 10,000 years, maybe everyone is what we now call a genius and they will be saying that we were really quite stupid. But hey, what do I know...

**Rtex** · 10-15-2003 04:14 PM

First of all, I side with paperdoll.

Second, Please do NOT refer to evolution or creation as fact, or theory. neither has been observed or repeated. At best either could be called a hypothesis.

Seriananth, it was about 1600 from creation till the flood.

As regard to the age of the earth, about 6000 years old. Now, I realise this is a hard concept to grasp.

But Rtex, Do you have any proof?

I'm glad you asked.

Fact Number one, Red Blood cells and hemoglobin have been found in some unfossilized dinosaur bones, But Joel, in their unfossilized state wouldn't it be impossible for them to last more than a few thousand years? I'm glad you asked! Because that is exactly right, thus making it impossible for dinosaurs to have lived 65 million years ago.

Fact number two, The earth magnetic field is decaying so fast that scientists estimate that the maximum age of the earth is 10,000 years old.

I'm sure you've all heard of Super Novas? well, the super nova remnant keeps expanding for hundred of thousands of years after it explodes, and yet we have not been able find any very old SNR's(stage 3) and very few moderately old SNR's(stage 2) Which makes sense if they have not been around for billions of years.

The moon is slowly moving away from the earth, At a rate of about 1 1/2 inches per year (4cm). If you assume the moon's original starting point was touching the earth, it would be at its current position in roughly 1.37 billion years, this is the maximum age for the moon(not the actual),
Hardly enough time for the evolutionistic view.(btw the moon did not start touching the earth)

The oceans are collecting salt much faster than it is losing it, if the earth were Billions of years old then the ocean would have so much salt in it, it would be compareable to the dead sea.

As far as us humans evolving and getting smarter in 10,000 years, Sure, that is Micro evolution, changes WITHIN the same species. However, Macro evolution, Saying that a dog could evolve into something else that is not a dog, is impossible.

There is one problem tho, The second law of thermodynamics. No evolutionist can get around it. which basicly says, things go from order to disorder, Now if you want to disregard one of the most fundamental laws of science, and believe evolution, then by all means, go ahead. But don't say no one ever tryed to tell you that evolution is wrong.

**Second Attention** · 10-15-2003 05:07 PM

I can't even begin to understand the fucking stupidity that surrounds religion. You know what I think? WHO FUCKING CARES! By all of this wondering and bickering and meandering in our own thoughts are we really achieving any sort of further knowledge on the subject? Especially if your all as closed minded as you seem(all is a bit of an overstatement). I mean... Why don't we sit here and try to prove each other wrong and fight about shit? Huh? We could make it like the fight over the Holy Land in Israel. Come on... it'll be fun... everyone loves fighting about religion! Because we're all right and everyone else is wrong!! HAHAHA!! It's so stupid... it's just beliefs... you can't prove yours any more than I can prove mine... so fuck it! I'm not going to argue with stupid ass people about stupid ass shit any more... and I mean you Paperdoll... I don't think you even understand the stupid shit that comes out of your mouth. So... you know what... FUCK IT ALL!!

**liquid** · 10-15-2003 08:05 PM

The people that argue about how stupid it is to argue over religion waste just as much time, achieve nor provide any further knowledge, AND are just as "stupid."

First I completely agree with you, I hate all religion and think it's insane how many people have DIED by their beliefs. However, do you really think that saying everything or anything you just said will change anyones thoughts on religion? NO. Thus, you are wasting just as much time as everyone else.

**nerve** · 10-15-2003 08:43 PM

Originally posted by Second Attention
I can't even begin to understand the fucking stupidity that surrounds religion. You know what I think? WHO FUCKING CARES! By all of this wondering and bickering and meandering in our own thoughts are we really achieving any sort of further knowledge on the subject? Especially if your all as closed minded as you seem(all is a bit of an overstatement). I mean... Why don't we sit here and try to prove each other wrong and fight about shit? Huh? We could make it like the fight over the Holy Land in Israel. Come on... it'll be fun... everyone loves fighting about religion! Because we're all right and everyone else is wrong!! HAHAHA!! It's so stupid... it's just beliefs... you can't prove yours any more than I can prove mine... so fuck it! I'm not going to argue with stupid ass people about stupid ass shit any more... and I mean you Paperdoll... I don't think you even understand the stupid shit that comes out of your mouth. So... you know what... FUCK IT ALL!!

no, he just doesn't like being proved wrong...

*hi-fives Rtex*

**Rtex** · 10-15-2003 08:56 PM

Originally posted by liquid
First I completely agree with you, I hate all religion and think it's insane how many people have DIED by their beliefs . . .

A wise man once said,

Something isn't worth living for unless it's worth dying for.

What are you living for right now?
Would you be willing to die for it?

Something to think about

**Second Attention** · 10-15-2003 09:03 PM

I live for hope

I would die for my beliefs...

What about you? Are you so sure of yourself...

Secondly, I wasn't arguing with anyone, not any more, that was the whole point of that post. Sorry you guys missed that. Well, I take that back, I'm not sorry for Paperdoll. I think she needs to learn to limit her mouth on this forum, seeing as she's always telling people that they shouldn't go off about other shit besides dreaming, but then she does it herself. Not to mention I think it is rather childish for her to bash everyone elses beliefs. Not to mention the other personal bashes she posts all the time. Grow up.

**wasup** · 10-15-2003 09:07 PM

Hmm, I shouldn't have started this (I replied to a post on page three of general disscusion and you guys started getting way off subject).

**evangel** · 10-15-2003 09:13 PM

Blulanou42 wrote:

"...Adam and Eve... They ate a plant that made them trip."

They didn't trip, but they did fall. And Hard. The point is pivotal to the whole concept of mankind's sinful nature and why it was necessary for Christ to die -also why Jesus is also called "The second Adam" in the New Testament since he restored man's position (those who would believe) in the eyes of God.

Regarding 2nd Attention's post, I'd say SOMEONE must care -else they wouldn't have gotten so bent out of shape. ( :x ) Someone who doesn't care wouldn't have posted anything at all. If you think we're wasting cyberspace, find a different thread that doesn't razz ya

As far as the arguing goes, arguing is fun -not just for the sake of it, but for discussion, for sharing perspectives and learning about others. Just because you disagree doesn't mean you have to get all frustrated or try to bash someone over the head with your beliefs

And -I have to second the mention of the second law of thermodynamics... seems pretty stalwart to me. If all things go from order to decay it would seem we are DE-volving rather than evolving. I am far from an expert on the dating techniques and methodologies, but have heard many arguments from Christian scientists (meaning credible geologists, mathmeticians, etc. who also happen to be Christian) about evolutionists that simply overlook conflicting scientific theories and findings that conflict with the whole concept of evolution.
How does this relate to lucid dreaming? Umm... I've dreamt of dinosaurs!

**nerve** · 10-15-2003 09:16 PM

Not to mention I think it is rather childish for her to bash everyone elses beliefs. [/b]

show me somewhere were i have BASHED someone for thier beliefs.

**Second Attention** · 10-15-2003 09:50 PM

Evangel:
I don't know why your jumping on the hate on Second bandwagon... but... uhh... thanks... I guess....?

Paperdoll:

Blulanou42:
To suggest that god created humanity from nothing is a bit hard to take, everything in the universe comes from a chain of events infinitely long, we call that creation and god. *
[/b]

Paperdoll:
oh? what is a god? *
[/b]

Dictionary.com wrote: *

God *

A being conceived as the perfect, omnipotent, omniscient originator and ruler of the universe, the principal object of faith and worship in monotheistic religions. *
[/b]

Paperdoll:
so are you trying to say that God didn't create the universe because your little human mind can't comprehend it? *
[/b]

you know, at first i liked you. at first i thought you were a very intelligent person. but after that little display of total and complete idiocy, i have lost all respect for you.
[/b]

Paperdoll(from another thread):
despite the fact that you are a loser, i'm happy for you. seriously. if you want tips jusr read more. i'd give you links to good websites, but i'm sick of posting them.
[/b]

Ahem... Bash...
Bash bash bash

::coughbashcoughcough::

**liquid** · 10-15-2003 09:58 PM

This is stupid, I just joined and already I feel like finding another forum. Id rather read about pot(other thread) than listen to this crap.

**nerve** · 10-15-2003 10:02 PM

[quote]Paperdoll:

Paperdoll(from another thread):
despite the fact that you are a loser, i'm happy for you. seriously. if you want tips jusr read more. i'd give you links to good websites, but i'm sick of posting them.

^this has nothing to do with religion. or bashing someone for what they believe.

**wasup** · 10-15-2003 10:07 PM

Paperdoll wrote:

wasup wrote:

Paperdoll(from another thread):
despite the fact that you are a loser, i'm happy for you. seriously. if you want tips jusr read more. i'd give you links to good websites, but i'm sick of posting them.

[/b]

I didn't write that!

**liquid** · 10-15-2003 10:10 PM

no paperdoll did, dont worry about it wasup.

This thread needs to be closed

Admin? Moderator? ...

**nerve** · 10-15-2003 10:10 PM

i know. heh, sorry...

**Second Attention** · 10-15-2003 10:10 PM

He wasn't bashing anything, your just so closed up that when he suggested an idea that threatened your beliefs, you freaked on him. He was expressing HIS belief, not yours. I didn't see him call anything "stupid" or anyone a "loser" or anything else like that. He was just giving you an idea of what he thought. That was the point of Boards, I thought, was to express and share ideas, not stifle other people's ideas and get pissed off. We are all just putting our two cents in. Some things get heated, others don't, but whatever people are talking about you seem to have to throw in some un-needed sarcasm, or call someone a loser, or say "I didn't come from an ass-picking monkey!!"(or whatever you said), when no one even said you did, first off, and secondly, there are simply better ways to express things.

I went off earlier. That was wrong, I was pissed. But... I just think that you could be a little more conscientious of others, Paperdoll. You want to play the big goth bitch or whatever, then go to a goth forum or something. We're here to talk about dreams, and that almost never happens any more.

Sorry all... last post...

**liquid** · 10-15-2003 10:15 PM

Originally posted by Second Attention
big goth bitch or whatever

LOL!

**wasup** · 10-15-2003 10:15 PM

...frigin ass picking monkey you mean...

dont mind me....

PS: I caught some incorrect spelling/grammer from Paperdoll EP (the frigen not fricken or fuc*ing)

8)

**nerve** · 10-15-2003 10:30 PM

i'm sorry, i really don;t mean to hurt you people. to be honest, i think YOU ALL are awsome. (except curios

) i'm serious. you guys rock, no matter what you believe. yes, i disagree with what some of you say. and i'm sorry if i piss any of you off about what you believe i try not to believe it or not. now i personally think we should stop discussing religion in this forum, or at least have the admin make that a new section or whatever, because i think it is bringing up alot of negetivity.

**Blulanou42** · 10-16-2003 02:05 AM

Paperdoll & Rtex
I just wanna say WTF?!?!

You both talk in circles.

I know that niether of you can dream lucidly simply because you let these things rule your lives. Holy Christ, you both think that you disagree with me, but you each contradicted yourselves and then AGREED with me, wtf?!?!

Because each of you has such a limited concept of god
neither one of you can possibly be completely lucid, your BELIEFS
rule your dreams and realities, a worse hell then the Bible could even concieve.

I do not mean to start the 'war' again, but we both believe in the same thing, you both need to study more and realize this, or perhaps meditate, Idon't know, take some hdrugs...

God is everything, prz stop trying to define the infinite holy holy that we dream each night and live each day, that is impossible.

prz stop arguing and realize that we believe the same thing, I have just seen a shitton more then most.

it is BIGGOTRY to say that ANY miscocieve GOD...we all percieve God differently but God is ALWAYS the same: The everchanging constant of the universe.

ps- prz stop taking things LITERALLY, it makes you both sound foolish, all life is perception, therefor all life is metaphor.

love, peace, good dreamin

**nerve** · 10-16-2003 02:53 AM

I do not mean to start the 'war' again, but we both believe in the same thing, you both need to study more and realize this, or perhaps meditate, Idon't know, take some hcr drugs...

we believe the same things?

i believe

1. God is the creator of all things.
2. He created the earth and everything on and around it in six days.

and you're telling me you believe this too?

p.s. i have had several lucid dreams. i don't know why you'd think i can't. in those dreams, i'm conscious. i'm aware of what i see, hear, smell, feal, and taste. i'm aware of my awareness. that is what a lucid dream is, and i've had those. tell me what makes you think otherwise?[/quote]

**Serinanth** · 10-16-2003 03:05 AM

WHolEE SHIT... I leave for like a half a day and you people are at each others throats... YikeS!

Ok ok simmah down now folks..

I want to argue this just because I like arguing, I was going to show data that supports each side and the same data being used by the other side.. but Yikes you people are tkaing this way to seriously... Somone else said it I forgot who

NEITHER is fact as NEITHER has been observed and givin definite prove as there is supporting data for each side

Simply put we are pathetic little mortals confused and trying to figure out where we came from...But the fact is we wont know untill its over..

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