Thread: How does language differ in lucid dreams?

From a number of posts I've read, it seems to me that language functions differently in a lucid dream from how it does in waking life. Some people report speaking languages that they don't actually know fluently. Others find that language that made sense in the dream makes no sense upon awakening. Still others say that they don't really dream in a language at all.

I think there may be some connection between the bizarreness of dreams and the strange properties of language in dreams, since many would argue that language is the basis for thought. This would also explain why dreams are so hard to remember, because you can't hold onto a thought without some way of your mind expressing it. I'm curious what your experiences are, especially regarding the following areas:

(Compare all answers to your experience while awake.)

1. Do you find speaking, reading, or writing more difficult? How about understanding?

2. When you hear a song, which is more salient: the words or its melody?

3. Syntax: Is your grammar different? Are words in order?

4. Semantics: Is your vocabulary different? What is the relationship between words and meaning? Do you find one without the other?

5. Abstract thought: How are your logical and mathematical reasoning abilities? Are sequential thoughts (or actions) more difficult?

Regarding 1-5 above:
-Do you fail to notice irregularities until you awaken?
-Do certain language abilities became easier with practice?
-Do you find language differences between lucid and nonlucid dreams?

Please share any thoughts you have on this topic. It will be interesting to see if there are any common themes. Also, I may be quoting you in my thesis, so let me know if you'd rather I didn't. Thanks!

My language ability differs from dream to dream. Mostly it is normal. I frequently have dreams where I am trying to speak and I can't though.

Language isnt the basis of thought. Images with associated feelings are. Language encodes the thought into words. You can talk in your dream, making perfect sense to yourself, but using random words to encode your thoughts. But you already see and feel the thought, so wheter the words are random or not, you still know what you are thinking. People overhearing you while asleep won't always know what you are talking about because sometimes the word stream is random, but you do know. so this does imply that our thinking isn't based on language at all.

Anyway, when I'm sleeping, people can't understand anything I say! But.. some people do talk understandable in their dreams, sometimes you can follow a part of their dream that way by listening what they are talking about ^^

Sometimes we speak telepathicly in my dreams. But mostly I talk the same way I think. Which doesnt make sense to others, but makes perfect sense to me.

Great questions to consider there.

In dreams, my language can be impaired. It usually is. I don't talk much in dreams. I have been learning French for quite a few years, and am far from fluent. I've had dreams where I speak completely fluent in them. I thought that was pretty weird, but I guess our subconscious is amazing.

It really is, My german teacher taught me so much, and I barely remember any of it. but when I listen to german speakers, I can understand them

Wow, fantastic, this is very informative. You guys are all gonna be in print soon! In general, I'd love more specific examples of the phenomena you're describing. It's one thing to quote somebody saying "things that made sense in the dream don't anymore when I wake up", but it's so much more powerful if I can quote a dream report as proof: "I heard/spoke/wrote/read a sentence that said xyz, and I understood it as yzx, but when I woke up I realized it really meant zxy."

Delphinus, can you elaborate on your telepathic speech? How do you know it has occurred if, as I'm assuming, no sounds are produced?

Luminous, what specifically about text is incoherent? Can you share any examples? Also, I'd love to hear more about what you meant in your answer to question 5 as "Much worse than in waking life".

A few of you mention that you are able to produce/understand fluent speech in a language with which you are not entirely familiar. Can you describe these experiences in more detail? How do you know you're saying or understanding the correct words?

Another couple of you mention that you have short attention span while lucid. Can you remember any concrete examples that demonstrate this?

I'm a bit strange when it comes to language in my dreams. My mother tongue is Norwegian, but I tend to have dreams also in English. It depends on the dream. Also, when I do speak English in my dreams, my pronunciation is completely fluent, even though I have a Norwegian accent when I speak English in real life. Also, I learned French for a few years in high school, but I never got very good at it. I hardly remember anything at all anymore, however, in (lucid) dreams, I will remember quite a lot of what I learned.

1: I find it similar to real life. But text might be incoherent and it will easily change, even though the reading itself is easy.

2: The melody.

3: The same as in waking life.

4: The same as in waking life.

5: Much worse than in waking life. I also have a shorter attention span in (lucid) dreams, especially the first ones I have during the night.

The last questions: I do notice even in the dream if something is different than usual when it comes to the questions above. I easily pick up on things out of the ordinary especially when it relates to myself. I do have dream skills that I have developed through lucid dreams, so that would be a yes. I don't remember enough non lucid dreams to answer your last question.

I hope this helps, feel free to ask if you have any questions regarding my answers.

[QUOTE= Also, I learned French for a few years in high school, but I never got very good at it. I hardly remember anything at all anymore, however, in (lucid) dreams, I will remember quite a lot of what I learned.
[/QUOTE] I think I know why. You have more access to memory when you're asleep, so, you have access to the french.

Originally Posted by nothin7

1. Do you find speaking, reading, or writing more difficult? How about understanding?

I don't notice any difference in my ability to speak. I've only attempted to write one time while lucid, and it was the same as in waking life (although I don't remember where I got the pen and paper from, lol). Reading is a bit more complex. The one time that I tried to read fine text (a book) while lucid, the lines were moving around the page and overlapping each other. It was difficult to focus on, let alone read. On the other hand, just the other day I had a lucid where I was reading large restaurant signs in a mall. While the text itself was stable, the names didn't make much sense. I can't recall any of the exact names, but I remember they sounded vaguely foreign, although I couldn't put my finger on the origin.

Originally Posted by nothin7

2. When you hear a song, which is more salient: the words or its melody?

Music is not common in my dreams, which is ironic since I consider it an important part of my waking life. However, when I do hear music in dreams it tends to be instrumental (usually it's me playing it on guitar or piano), so that would be the melody.

Originally Posted by nothin7

3. Syntax: Is your grammar different? Are words in order?

Dream memories being as fleeting as they are, I tend to recall the "gist" of what I say while lucid more than the actual words. However, in the few instances where I can recall the actual words that I spoke, I haven't noticed anything significantly different from the way I would speak in waking life.

Originally Posted by nothin7

4. Semantics: Is your vocabulary different? What is the relationship between words and meaning? Do you find one without the other?

Same as #3.

Originally Posted by nothin7

5. Abstract thought: How are your logical and mathematical reasoning abilities? Are sequential thoughts (or actions) more difficult?

While my logic and reasoning ability is better while lucid than it is during a non-lucid dream, it is still significantly worse than in waking life. I tend to have a very short attention span. I also tend to have great difficulty retrieving certain memories; for example, I can almost never remember the Task of the Month, and I may or may not notice that my house in the lucid dream has a different layout than my house in waking life.

Originally Posted by nothin7

For all questions, do you fail to notice irregularities until you awaken?

As I mentioned above, I may or may not notice irregularities while dreaming. Sometimes thoughts or actions that made perfect sense while lucid might seem just silly once I awaken. Other times my lucid thoughts and action are fairly congruent with my waking self.

Originally Posted by nothin7

Do certain things became easier with practice?

There is a general trend for things to get easier with practice (flying, changing dream scene, etc). However, even after 2.5 years of practice it can tend to be a little unpredictable. Just 3 days ago I had a lucid where I temporarily lost my ability to fly! Sometimes when I try to run through a wall to a new dream scene, I just smack into the wall (maybe 30-40% of the time). There is one thing, however, which has never changed no matter how many times I try: having sex while lucid will inevitably cause me to wake up within 10-15 seconds.

Originally Posted by nothin7

Finally, do you find differences between lucid and nonlucid dreams?

Many. While my nonlucids tend to be fast-paced and/or emotionally charged, the instant I become lucid the whole pace of the dream seems to slow down. Most notably, DCs become passive, especially if I announce that I'm dreaming (I've learned to keep my lucidity a "secret" from DCs ). If there is any sort of conflict in my lucid dreams, it is usually either initiated by me or a continuation of some conflict that was present before I became lucid. (Sometimes both, as when I decide to get revenge on a certain DC after becoming lucid.)

I hardly ever remember what is said in a dream, but I am aware of the fact that I'm speaking and how I and other DCs speak.

1. Do you find speaking, reading, or writing more difficult? How about understanding?

As far as speaking, not at all. The only problem I have trouble speaking or understanding a DC is if it involves a foreign language (Russian or Spanish). Reading and writing are relatively easy, but the text tends to change.

2. When you hear a song, which is more salient: the words or its melody?

I rarely hear songs in my dreams. The only times I have are when a song is playing on the radio in real life or something similar, and yes, it's all clear.

3. Syntax: Is your grammar different? Are words in order?

There is no difference between waking life/dream.

4. Semantics: Is your vocabulary different? What is the relationship between words and meaning? Do you find one without the other?

Nope. I actually hardly ever remember what I say or a DC says. It's just not something I pay attention to. Even if they say something, it's possible that they mean something else, and I pick up more on the meaning than on the words.

5. Abstract thought: How are your logical and mathematical reasoning abilities? Are sequential thoughts (or actions) more difficult?

Everything is "sequential," but the order doesn't necessarily make sense. There's just a progression from one thing to the next. As far as "logical abilities," I've never noticed. I never seem to do math much in my dreams. If there was a simple problem, I'd probably answer it correctly, but with more complex problems, judging from other dream experiences, I'd probably make something up and assume it was right.

Regarding 1-5 above:
-Do you fail to notice irregularities until you awaken?

Absolutely.

-Do certain language abilities became easier with practice?

In real life, yes. In dreams, I sometimes understand what's going on, but usually don't. I became lucid once, actually, as a result of realizing that I had just made up a word and passed it off as Russian. I don't do that in real life. But usually, whether it would be accurate or not, I haven't understood speakers of foreign languages in my dreams... yet.

-Do you find language differences between lucid and nonlucid dreams?

No.

Hey Amethyst Star,

Thank you for the detailed reply. I'm now curious about a couple of the things you said:

Originally Posted by Amethyst Star

4. Semantics: Is your vocabulary different? What is the relationship between words and meaning? Do you find one without the other?

Nope. I actually hardly ever remember what I say or a DC says. It's just not something I pay attention to. Even if they say something, it's possible that they mean something else, and I pick up more on the meaning than on the words.

You don't "pay attention" to DC speech, but you're still getting meaning--can you explain this? What role, if any, do words play? Would it be difficult to focus on remembering the exact phrase someone said?

Originally Posted by Amethyst Star

Regarding 1-5 above:
-Do you fail to notice irregularities until you awaken?

Absolutely.

Any striking examples of this? (The more detail, the better.)

Originally Posted by nothin7

Hey Amethyst Star,

Thank you for the detailed reply. I'm now curious about a couple of the things you said:

Originally Posted by Amethyst Star
4. Semantics: Is your vocabulary different? What is the relationship between words and meaning? Do you find one without the other?

Nope. I actually hardly ever remember what I say or a DC says. It's just not something I pay attention to. Even if they say something, it's possible that they mean something else, and I pick up more on the meaning than on the words.

You don't "pay attention" to DC speech, but you're still getting meaning--can you explain this? What role, if any, do words play? Would it be difficult to focus on remembering the exact phrase someone said?

Well, I can't really think of any examples, but the idea is that it's not so much the words that the DC says (if I can understand them at all in the first place). Instead, I know where the situation is going and my actions are not dependent upon what is spoken.

Words play a small role in my dreams. I am a rather emotion-driven person, so the actions and feelings I see and experience seem to be more easy to remember. On some occasions, I can recall what a DC has said, but yes, it is difficult to recall an exact phrase. In real life sometimes it's difficult for me. What would cause me to recall a specific phrase or conversation is unknown. Sometimes it's just so out of place, and sometimes I think I'm closer to waking up and it's easier for me to remember what is said. Overall, there isn't much dialogue, actually.

Regarding 1-5 above:
-Do you fail to notice irregularities until you awaken?

Absolutely.

Any striking examples of this? (The more detail, the better.)

As far as speech, sometimes what is being said isn't in line with what's going on. In other cases, usually when dealing with a foreign language, I have no idea what's being said. Sometimes, though, when I think a DC is speaking a foreign language, I'll wake up and realize that I don't recognize even part of what they said. Normally I'll understand at least a word here and there.

In general, though, there are a myriad of signs that could point to the fact that I am dreaming that I just don't notice for the life of me. Just last night I dreamed I was going to be on America's Next Top Model (for some reason), and while I was sitting with the other contestants in this ~almost walled off area outside (?), the person who was judging/teaching us was my old Russian professor! I graduated almost a year ago and I don't recognize the area we were in. I could point out a good half-dozen things every night that I could have used to realize that I was dreaming... if I took the time to write them down

1. Do you find speaking, reading, or writing more difficult? How about understanding?

my speaking sounds like it's traversing a mile underwater. tho i haven't attempted it to many times. along that line, i slapped on my leg to see if my senses were active. i felt it softly, but the sound came delayed and muffled. understanding depends on how lucid i am, and that depends on how much effort i put forth while lucid to stay conscience. it's like i'm always sloping back into sleep. reading i've both experience perfect unmoving sentences, and ones that shift and change.

2. When you hear a song, which is more salient: the words or its melody?

i dunno. most my music is just melody. one time i dreamed up a very complex piece of music and was dissapointed when i tried to re-create it but felt it drifting away.

3. Syntax: Is your grammar different? Are words in order?

i can think very clearly. with an inner voice i can talk to myself clearly with correct grammar, just like waking life.

4. Semantics: Is your vocabulary different? What is the relationship between words and meaning? Do you find one without the other?

no. there is a normal relationship.

5. Abstract thought: How are your logical and mathematical reasoning abilities? Are sequential thoughts (or actions) more difficult?

fairly normal. one time i built a computer program durring a morning REM. when i woke up i remembered it, typed it up, and it compiled correctly the first time. it was something i'd been obsessively thinking about the day before, because it was difficult to do.

Regarding 1-5 above:
-Do you fail to notice irregularities until you awaken? sometimes yes.
-Do certain language abilities became easier with practice? sure.
-Do you find language differences between lucid and nonlucid dreams? not too much.

Please share any thoughts you have on this topic. It will be interesting to see if there are any common themes. Also, I may be quoting you in my thesis, so let me know if you'd rather I didn't. Thanks!

good questions. i'm interested in developing and pushing the limits of lucid dreaming, not just flying at the speed of light. a goal i have is asking the subconscience to write something to me, perhaps on a certain topic.

Originally Posted by mrToad

5. Abstract thought: How are your logical and mathematical reasoning abilities? Are sequential thoughts (or actions) more difficult?

fairly normal. one time i built a computer program durring a morning REM. when i woke up i remembered it, typed it up, and it compiled correctly the first time. it was something i'd been obsessively thinking about the day before, because it was difficult to do.

mrToad, that's incredible you're able to create something so complex in a lucid dream! Can you tell me more about this? What specifically about the code do you remember? Could you perform complex calculations or engage in problem solving? When you woke up, were you literally typing 100% from memory?

Originally Posted by mrToad

good questions. i'm interested in developing and pushing the limits of lucid dreaming, not just flying at the speed of light. a goal i have is asking the subconscience to write something to me, perhaps on a certain topic.

This is exactly what I want to spend my life studying. I'd love to hear any theories you have so far. From what I gather so far, I would guess that your goal is something that would be extremely difficult to achieve, because of it relies heavily on language generation. I look forward to tossing around ideas with you.

it was some part of an adventure game i've been writing for years. before i was married i did my best to keep a simple outer life so i had time to focus on personal projects and ideas. with an internet business i had a lot of time at home. if you live eat and breathe only one or two ideas at a time, and you have the time and space to do so without distraction, it is amazing what your mind can do. i believe that it can become increasingly engaged to the point that you dream about it clearly.

in this particular project quite a few years back i think i was trying to build a scripting engine. i'd worked fairly late and slept in the next morning. durring the morning i started to visualize the code. i knew what the goal was, it wasn't hazy. it actually didn't take long to solve the problem. the whole dream was maybe half hour, i don't know. i woke up feeling like, "i know exactly what i need to do." i jumped over to the computer.

i don't think i saw the code word-for-word durring the dream, or at least i don't remember it. i visualized it in a sort of generalized way, i perceived a sort of method that i'd never thought of, and it was clear exactly what i should do. sort of like when in conversation we want to share an idea with someone. the putting that idea into language and speaking is the second part, and it comes naturally. the idea to begin with is less tangible before that point--it's something we just feel. i felt the code and method exactly, tho it was something very difficult for me the previous day or days. i typed it up, checked it over, compiled and ran it, and bingo. it worked beautifully.

it's obvious the brain can be a problem-solver especially when it's been rested and isn't distracted. so REM sleep (i figure this stage) is the best time to problem-solve. it happened without much effort. my subconscious just fed it to me without me asking. i wanted to know the answer badly, i put forth a lot of effort, and the next morning my subconsious just gave it to me.

sure, i'd like to share ideas. maybe it will help motivate me. at the time i've fallen away from the dreamworld. it comes and goes without my notice each night. at one time i was lucid dreaming almost every early morning. i think i need to continue with my dream journal, to start paying attention again.

I speak like I normally do, but what's weird is that I sometimes speak english (I'm Swedish) maybe it's because english is nearly as natural for me as Swedish...

Originally Posted by CDR

I speak like I normally do, but what's weird is that I sometimes speak english (I'm Swedish) maybe it's because english is nearly as natural for me as Swedish...

i was just going to say the same thing.
I'm swedish to and i've been talking english in dreams, and it sounds better in the dreams and better grammar than in waking life XD.

Highly impaired

I can't talk in lucid dreams, I always feel like I have constipation but with my speech.

Thanks guys, all the stuff you're posting is invaluable to my studies. Keep it coming!

Originally Posted by Jdeadevil

Highly impaired

I can't talk in lucid dreams, I always feel like I have constipation but with my speech.

Jdeadevil,

I have this exact same experience sometimes. It's so bizarre. Can you describe the phenomenon as you experience it in more detail, or perhaps in the context of a dream report?

I mostly think or speak the same way as I do in real life, I think pretty logically. (In my last dream I thought TOO logically =_= I thought that I won't be able to fly, 'cause some people on dreamviews fail to do it...)
Language and speech plays an important role in my dreams, as it sometimes even feels like I'm listening to, or am telling a story. I can clearly remember what I, or my DCs have said.
The music is usually only the melody, but a few times I could hear words too. I can't remember them clearly, but the words were influenced by the music that I listened to before going to sleep.
The words I use don't really change, but when I speak while awake, I don't switch between languages that often

For me, language is normal, but not talking in most dreams (in non-LD)

My mother language is Portuguese, but I am extremely fluent in English, and know quite a bit of Spanish. Plus Braille and Morse, but those are not exactly languages.

1. Do you find speaking, reading, or writing more difficult? How about understanding?

Spoken sentences usually will make less sense, although it always seems DCs understand what I say, and I understand what DCs say. The sentences are senseless but I don't realise so and they seem to make perfect sense. It isn't uncommon for me two merge two languages in a single sentence and it sound completely normal. In fact, sometimes I don't even know in which language something was said.

Reading tends to be easier and less ambilingual, but this is not a rule.

I don't ever write much in my dreams. When I do, it's more like I drew what I wanted to say rather than writing it.

2. When you hear a song, which is more salient: the words or its melody?

The melody: I can usually hear the speech but not distinguish any word.

3. Syntax: Is your grammar different? Are words in order?

Sometimes I speak English with portuguese grammar, sometimes the opposite; sometimes it's a very simple, instinctive grammar.

4. Semantics: Is your vocabulary different? What is the relationship between words and meaning? Do you find one without the other?

Regarding semantics, they tend to be quite specific in dreams. It's like when I read/hear a word, an image of it instantly came to my head, so it's quite accurate.

5. Abstract thought: How are your logical and mathematical reasoning abilities? Are sequential thoughts (or actions) more difficult?

I tend to have this very short memory overall, as in, if I think of doing 1+1, I'll forget what I'm doing in the middle of it, and if I try too hard to remember it I'll wake up (much like hypnagogia). This doesn't happen in good lucid dreams though.

Regarding 1-5 above:
-Do you fail to notice irregularities until you awaken?
Yes, it's as if they weren't even there. I understand everythign regardless of reality resemblance. I guess I'm just not much of an auditory thinker.
-Do certain language abilities became easier with practice?
Not forgetting what you were just about to do/say.
-Do you find language differences between lucid and nonlucid dreams?
Lucid dream language tends to be more cohesive and tangible. If I say some random BS in a lucid dream I'll realise it, but this doesn't happen i na non-lucid dream.

On a final note, I'd like to tell that I used to be extremely auditory-thinking, but then I started learning other languages and it kind of became impractical. Right now I'm more of a visual/kinaesthetic thinker (kind of half-half).

i have a few differences between speech in life and dreams:

i have a very very slight stutter in real life (few people can even tell i have one), but anyhoo, i have never recalled stuttering in a dream. there are times when i can't talk but that doesn't have to do with stuttering.

in terms of thinking for verbal commands i often don't say exactly what i want. it is like my mind is too slow to think of the right words. so i yell something that is kind of right but as long as i have the right intention in my mind it often works anyway.

when i sing a song i know in a dream i even know parts that i don't know in real life. so i am pretty much freestyling after awhile. and my freestyling is AWESOME. i don't know if it makes sense, but i easily rhymed when i needed to. in real life i am really bad at it.

whatever i want to say (or don't want to, which occurs more often) comes out naturally. it's only if i concentrate on what i'm going to say that it comes out kind of nonsense