I dont think I Agree!!

[supreme]

With this explanation! * Astral projection The act of separating the astral body (spirit or consciousness) from the physical body and its journey into the universe. Astral Projection is the intentional act of having the spirit leave the body, whereas an out-of-body experience happens involuntarily (such as while dreaming, or in a near-death experience). When I start a lucid dream, I always come out or push my dream body out of my real body....like a spirit leaving a body you might say. Many years ago i was told it was astral projection but then i read somewhere that ppl think it is real. It is not and it is just a dream. I really dont believe a spirit can leave a body unless it is already dead maybe. Now if you say that it is true then so be it, ppl can write down what they believe to be true. But if it is true then what i do is not astral projection because after i leave my body and im in my own room, then i start the controlling of my dream.....and it is a dream....a Lucid Dream and nothing more! But you say in that explanation that OBE is involuntary and so if it is involuntary then why can i do it whenever i want to do it. As long as i feel the shift that is. I feel the shifting, a tingling feeling, i am still conscious but falling into sleep. I push myself out of my body. I do it intentionally. Then im out of my body and the first thing my dream body does is i always fly out a window to go and explore. Sometimes i walk around the house or do other things but mostly i just fly outside and just go for an adventure. Whatever i decide to do, i control the whole thing and do whatever i want to do and i am completely aware of the fact that im dreaming and i can recall ideas from this forum that i wanted to try.....and then just go do it. So what do you call an intentional out of body experience that is a LD then??

[Abra]

You are right! It's all just a dream! Your interpretation of the beginning of a lucid dream is moving out of a body. That isn't to be taken literally! You are in the same dream, and in the same physical body. It is most likely a metaphor, as dreams are often wrought with symbolism. It may symbolize you ascending out of your non-lucid state and into your lucid one.

[supreme]

I was given advice when i was 16 about what was happening to me in my weird dreams. I would experience phenomena like laying in bed awake and not being able to move, talk or scream. Other strange things would happen in these dreams, which to me werent dreams at all but i thought i was awake. These states were the beginnings of lucid dreaming for me, but i didnt know what they were or how to control it. Mostly i would just lay there until the paralysis went away. The guy who gave me advice suggested that when i felt something like this happening to me again to try and push my body out of my body. So the the next time it happened i did that, and it worked. I also did exactly what he told me to do after that as well and ive written it all down in my dream journal here. Ever since that first time that is the only way i ever start a LD. Even when i DIELD i push out and start the LD from my bedroom. I never continue on in the dream i was having before i DIELDed.....i always start my LDs fresh right from the start of coming out of my body and into my room. So now im thinking that because i was taught to do it that way, that is the way i have always done it....and will always do it.....it is just my way. I feel like im going out of body but really i am not....i am just dreaming that i am. I dont believe in true 'obe' or true 'ap'.....what i think is.... if somebody does what i do, then they very well can believe its really happening if they have never experienced LD. I mean if i were in a car crash and started LDing and hung over the top of the crash....i would see almost everything that was there, except, not really! If i didnt know the other car i would see a car that my mind would conjure up to be there. I could, i know, conjour up a whole crash scene to look at that is completely wrong but almost right. But it would just be a dream and i think some ppl could be confused about an abrupt LD happening to them during a crisis.....if theyve never had one before. If something like that ever happened to me, i would immediately wake myself up and try and get the hell out of that car if i could. Not sure if anyone can understand what im saying but basically i believe all these 'obe' experiences that ppl say are really happening are only just LDs. Another thing i myself dont believe in is 'dream sharing'! Its too far fetched for my logical brain. Even when ppl told me to fly over to a friends house during a LD to see if they were sleeping in their beds (because they thought i was astral-projecting after i explained the 'obe's i have) I would tell them straight out that even if they were, it would still all be a dream and not at all real. I could see them in bed...sure, but they could be out or in the livingroom watching tv in reality.....i would see them wherever i wanted them or expected them to be, because its a controlled dream and thats all! During the 22 some years ive been LDing i did a lot of experiments to make sure the dreams arent real....not RCs but just looking around and surveying known areas. Like being above my house and looking down.... "Well everything looks exactly right.....except....where is the giant maple tree in my front yard....its not there!" See what i mean??

[Abra]

I know what you mean about starting your LD in bed. Whenever I have a WILD/DEILD experience, I often start out in my room. I see this as a plus for two reasons: 1. I truly know that I am dreaming, because I know that in real life I'm in my room. 2. I've got a forest right in my backyard. That's where I start most adventures.