Dreaming about...lucid dreaming.

[Buttpt]

So, tonight I was sleeping and having a normal dream. I was at this house, something like a church, and when I was going out I thought "wait a minute. I've been here before. Am I dreaming?", and suddenly, in my dream, I'm at my room laying in my bed. I get up but it's like my real body stays there, so I touch my body and I feel it in my dream body. I then try to do a rc, but when I press the light button of my watch nothing happens, so I realize I'm dreaming. I immediately think about flying and I jump against the ceiling thinking "I'm dreaming so I'll just break through the ceiling", but I got stuck in it. I manage to come down. But then I remember I was feeling so sleepy things started to get darker so I remember to rub my hands. I then started spinning to try and make night day, and I did it. I then decide to just go through the window, and I do it and I fall onto the ground down there, I start running, jump, and start flying. There I was flying and thinking "I'm lucid in my dream". I also remember thinking that I couldn't really feel the wind though. I start to see some people down there and I suddenly wake up in my bed. When I woke up I thought "I just had a lucid dream". However, now, I'm not really sure if I had a lucid dream or not. I've been thinking about it and first...why would my body stay in bed like in a OOBE...maybe because I read about it, and then dreamt about it. Second, I always thought about remaining calm and just explore when I achieve my first lucid dream...however that did not happen and I immediately jumped against the ceiling...it just doesn't sound like something I would do. Third, I didn't feel any pain or anything when going against the ceiling or through my window, so...it's quite strange. So that makes me think that I had a dream in which I was lucid dreaming, since I really don't feel like I was conscious during my dream. It's quite strange and especially frustrating. How can one dream about realizing he's dreaming, and not actually realize that he is in fact dreaming. ahh...

[Oneironaut Zero]

I think you're confusing yourself. From what I hear, it was a lucid dream. However, there are levels of dream awareness just like there are levels of waking world awareness. Even the most seasoned lucid dreamers often go to sleep with a plan of how they will act or what they will do, sometimes, only to completely forget about it when the adrenaline rush of becoming lucid washes over them. There's nothing unusual about that. It's like a fighter going into a fight with a game plan, only to find himself getting punched in the face and his entire strategy flying out the window. You'll get better, with time. Just work on staying calm, and asserting to yourself that you will stay calm, when you're going to bed. It's not enough to just think "yeah, I'll just stay calm next time I have a lucid dream" while you're awake in the middle of the day. You have to beat it into your skull so that you don't forget when you actually realize that you're dreaming.

[Buttpt]

Hmm...I would also like to believe that was a lucid dream, but I have serious doubts. I just read THIS thread and: It's like watching a movie character go "Oh, I'm dreaming so this should work..." and you don't realize that it really is just something you're watching on a movie, and the implications, because you're so caught up in the story that you forget it's just on a screen. So that strengthens my belief that I was in fact dreaming and not lucid. Because if it was a lucid dream...then I must say it's not what I expected...it actually kinda sucked. But I sure am confused, and can't tell if I was or not lucid.

[Nick89]

I immediately think about flying and I jump against the ceiling thinking "I'm dreaming so I'll just break through the ceiling", but I got stuck in it. I manage to come down. But then I remember I was feeling so sleepy things started to get darker so I remember to rub my hands. I then started spinning to try and make night day, and I did it. I then decide to just go through the window, and I do it and I fall onto the ground down there, I start running, jump, and start flying. There I was flying and thinking "I'm lucid in my dream". I also remember thinking that I couldn't really feel the wind though. I start to see some people down there and I suddenly wake up in my bed. When I woke up I thought "I just had a lucid dream". Although I've never had a lucid dream myself yet, I'm pretty sure that your expercience was a proper ld. Ask yourself few questions: Would you think of flying in a regular dream? Would you rub your hands and spin? Would you manage to make night day? Would you actually manage to fly on purpose?

[Oneironaut Zero]

So that strengthens my belief that I was in fact dreaming and not lucid. Because if it was a lucid dream...then I must say it's not what I expected...it actually kinda sucked. But I sure am confused, and can't tell if I was or not lucid. Well, maybe I can't relate. I see people that talk about those kinds of experiences, where they are like watching themselves in a movie, but not really having control. I don't know why, but I never really have those types of dreams. I've had subtle instances where maybe for short periods of time my body just reacts to something, but usually I'm in control of myself. You can have dream awareness without dream control, though. It is still a lucid dream. Even if you can't control a single thing about your own body, the feeling of knowing you're dreaming (which you described perfectly) is what counts as the lowest level of lucidity. Control comes secondary. In my book, that was still a lucid dream, albeit a lucid dream with 0 control - in which case, it was like watching a movie and not being able to interact.

[Buttpt]

Although I've never had a lucid dream myself yet, I'm pretty sure that your expercience was a proper ld. Ask yourself few questions: Would you think of flying in a regular dream? Would you rub your hands and spin? Would you manage to make night day? Would you actually manage to fly on purpose? Well, if I was dreaming about being lucid, all those things could happen. Well, maybe I can't relate. I see people that talk about those kinds of experiences, where they are like watching themselves in a movie, but not really having control. I don't know why, but I never really have those types of dreams. I've had subtle instances where maybe for short periods of time my body just reacts to something, but usually I'm in control of myself. You can have dream awareness without dream control, though. It is still a lucid dream. Even if you can't control a single thing about your own body, the feeling of knowing you're dreaming (which you described perfectly) is what counts as the lowest level of lucidity. Control comes secondary. In my book, that was still a lucid dream, albeit a lucid dream with 0 control - in which case, it was like watching a movie and not being able to interact. That makes sense. When I said it sucked it's mainly because I can't even tell if I was lucid or not, and couldn't really 'feel' the dream or in the dream, you know? I don't know...maybe it was a dream with 0% control and about 60% lucidity. However, this experience made me a lot more confident regarding my next dreams and I believe that the next time I will truly reach lucidity. Thank you all for answering.

[Oneironaut Zero]

Heh. Now I'm about to throw you a curve-ball. I'd actually been thinking hard about this, since my last reply, and I came to realization. I replied on the thread you linked to, but I'm going to paste it here, because I'd hate to have inconsistent views about the same subject, on two different threads. This probably won't help your confusion at all, though. Sorry about that. You know, ever since I've come to Dream Views, I've been trying to wrap my head around this whole "dreaming of being lucid" thing that everyone keeps talking about. I've been pretty swayed toward the idea that there's really no such thing, and people are just confusing 0-to-low dream control over their own body and actions with not being lucid "enough" to count it as being lucid. The reason I've been thinking this, I gather, is because I don't have very many dreams or dream moments where I'm not in control of myself. I do have them, but they're definitely in the minority. Even in my non-lucids, I usually feel like I'm there and am making my own decisions (most of the time), so the idea of "knowing - and acting as if you know - you're dreaming, without being lucid" seemed kind of foreign to me. Although, I just realized that I have had a couple of dreams where the dream me would be saying something, or doing something, and would be like (for example): "Such and such doesn't matter, because this is only a dream." It would be said without my preliminary, conscious awareness that this actually was a dream, so I actually do understand where some of you are coming from. The only thing is, every time this happens (and I mean every time), I become fully lucid, right then and there, like I'm being instantly dropped into, well, a movie - to use the analogy that Shift used. It's instantaneous - like a light switching on. But I can't say I've ever had a dream play out, after my dream self implies that it knows this to be a dream, without actually becoming lucid (as best as I can remember). Looking back on this, though, I actually see how 'dreaming of being lucid' is possible. Bit of a revelation, on my part. Heh.

[Buttpt]

Hehe. So basically you're saying that it is possible that I was in fact dreaming and not lucid. You're right, that doesn't help my confusion . However, I've been thinking about it too, and...there are some things that make me think I was lucid, and other things that make me think I was not. - I was having a very vivid dream when I first realized I was dreaming. (+1) - After realizing I was dreaming, I suddenly appeared in my room and I immediately jumped up from my bed. I then looked behind to see my body as if I knew my body would be there. (-1) - I touched my real body and I remember I could feel it in my dream body. (+1) - Only after I got up from bed, I did a RC. Everytime I wake up in the middle of the night I do a RC first thing, while still laying down. (-1) - That fact that the light button from my digital watch did not work surprised me, I mean I was not expecting that. However I remember moving my hand a little and being able to see the time, even though it was dark in the room. The time was messed up (as if I was expecting it to be). (+0) - I remember I gave a glance at my window to check the detail, and I remember it was pretty blured. My shutters were closed. (+0) - I took a small run and jumped against the ceiling thinking "I'm dreaming so I'll just break through the ceiling". I got stuck though. Then there's like a blank part from here to the part where I jumped through the window, I can only remember I was sleepy and things were getting darker so I rubbed my hands, spun and made night day. While spining, everything was black. The fact that I cannot recall what happened in this 'blank part' is (-1). - I jumped through the window and broke it. My shutters were open. But I guess dreams are unstable and unpredictable right...so (+0). - While jumping against the ceiling or against the window I felt absolutely nothing. (-1) - Another blank part. After jumping through the window, I suddenly see myself down there. I screamed "I'm dreaming!", started running, jumped and started flying. (-1) - While flying I remember thinking "Is this flying? I can't even feel the wind". I tried harder to feel the wind, but nothing much happened. (-1) - I started seeing some people. This part is strange, because I'm pretty sure I was trying to look for a girl which I had been with in a previous dream that same night. I woke up though. (+0) - I woke up, did a RC and I was truly awake. I thought "I just had a lucid dream" and went back to sleep. Why would I went back to sleep right after my first lucid? Maybe it didn't feel really lucid by then. Or maybe I wanted to go 'in-dream' again (+0). So, overall, that makes it (-4). Lol, it's a strange way to analyse my dream but I guess it's interesting and it can show some nice conclusions. Besides, first thing I thought in the morning was..."Is that what lucid dreaming is all about? I'm not even sure if I truly was awake." In the end, I think I once again believe I was dreaming, with no lucidity. Maybe next time...I mean...Next Time! Thanks Oneironaut.

[Mariano]

hey oneironaut...that's part of YOUR experience. you can't say that "dreaming of being lucid" doesn't exists, because maybe doesn't exist on you, but on me, and on lot people, that phenomenom was in a lot of dreams... look for my post "false lucid dreams"... you never had a FLD, that's because you don't really understand it... about buttp....I'm not sure, but you will know if it was a lucid dream when you experience one...you have to be totally aware in one...the consciousness is like in real life....

[Oneironaut Zero]

hey oneironaut...that's part of YOUR experience. you can't say that "dreaming of being lucid" doesn't exists, because maybe doesn't exist on you, but on me, and on lot people, that phenomenom was in a lot of dreams... That's what I just explained. I don't doubt it exists. I did, but I don't anymore, because I've gained some perspective.