Thread: Naturals:

I have a friend who is a natural, every night LDer, and apparently, her dreams form in the same way as ours, except they are lucid from the very beginning.
What I'm trying to say is, she doesn't WILD, but there is no specific point where she stops and goes, "Hey, I'm dreaming!" She just starts out lucid. I can relate to it a bit, because I had one LD like this a couple of months ago.

As for why, she is an empath, and she thinks that that probably has a lot to do with it.
Even if you don't beleive in empaths, I can assure you she is a natural LDer. She keeps a dream journal and everything.

I hope I could help.

Originally Posted by Shift

What kinds of lucids are your lucids? WILDs, DILDs? Subtypes of either? If you WILD, do you suffer from isolated sleep paralysis regularly? How regular is regular?

How long have you been LDing for? When did you start?

Are you able to induce LDs of the other variety? (meaning if you WILD, are you able to do RCs to DILD? If you normally DILD, have you ever successfully WILDed? Or, have you not put in the effort to do the other?)

Are you able to increase your LD frequency by using induction methods?

What do you think it is about you that makes you lucid dream naturally? Lifestyle, mindframe, any ideas?

Well Shift, I was in your brain or you in mine, because I would love to get to the bottom of this as well.

From your awesome definition I would consider myself a natural. I have had LD's as a child, but no awarenss of control i.e. I would know I was in a dream and begin flying everywhere, that was pretty much the extent of it.

Once I found DV (end of Jan 2009) I've had 8 awesome controlled LDs and five were definitly some form of WILD. As in, I either saw HH form into a scene and I got sucked in, or I would start in my room, tumbling, somersaulting until I could walk out my room and into dream land.

For inducing, I repeat a small mantra and do a lot of visualizing, I am a very visual person with a very active imagination. However, I also have natural SP spells (began about 5 years ago) and when I go into SP ( now that I know I can LD) I go with it and always WILD. I'd say I get SP once a month.

I will also go lucid without inducing, but it is only for a brief second. DILDs area challange for me, but, just last week I had my first very controlled DILD (DJ). So I guess i'm making progress [the other 2 DILDS in my count were my one of my first LDs after joining - they were short but I did have control]

I'm not sure why I'm more of a "natural". Could be because of the SP I get, could be because of my very visual imagination, could be because I've always had great recall ( I still remember many childhood dreams) or it could be because I do have a very open mindset; I've opened my mind to several experiences that have offered me clarity and deepness that is there for everyone to experience but only some will truely "see"....

I also want to add that my sister is obsessed with dreams, she always has the most epic dreams, she gets SP and can WILD naturally. We told my brother about LD and he was VERY interested, he read the site and he too has had lucids (but he's a very busy 28 yr old and doesn't put in alot of effort) My dad has also had LDs but doen'st care to control them -- Thought I'd mention it because, who knows, maybe LD could have a genetic factor to it...

Well I'm very interested to see what others have to say, I really want to know why some can get WILD so easily and why others can DILD easily....keep the responses coming

Originally Posted by Shift

What do you think it is that makes YOU a natural lucid dreamer?

I guess the fact that I've been doing it for the last 20 years and only heard about it being called lucid dreaming about it 3 years ago.

Also, I've been stabilizing both my dreams and waking life before I read about it. I was drunk one night and decided I want to make myself sober by sheer willpower. It worked for a few seconds. Whenever I try to stabilize I just replicate what I did that night.

Originally Posted by Shift

What kinds of lucids are your lucids? WILDs, DILDs? Subtypes of either? If you WILD, do you suffer from isolated sleep paralysis regularly? How regular is regular?

DILDs
Frequency goes from 3-4 times a night or couple of times a week to no LDs and zero dream recall for weeks.
I've only experienced SP 3 times, and there was always something terrifying in the room with me.

Originally Posted by Shift

How long have you been LDing for? When did you start?

Started when I was 6.

Originally Posted by Shift

Are you able to induce LDs of the other variety? (meaning if you WILD, are you able to do RCs to DILD? If you normally DILD, have you ever successfully WILDed? Or, have you not put in the effort to do the other?)

I've tried WILDing a lot(maybe 50 times), but made it only 2 times. DILDs are just very natural, I don't even need to do RC to know I'm dreaming.

Originally Posted by Shift

Are you able to increase your LD frequency by using induction methods?

Are DJ and RCs considered induction methods? If yes, then my answer is Yes, they increase both the frequency and quality of my LDs.
I've tried autosuggestion, but it wasn't more effective than just spending more time thinking and reading about dreams.

Originally Posted by Shift

What do you think it is about you that makes you lucid dream naturally? Lifestyle, mindframe, any ideas?

Mindframe probably, being an analytical person.
The main reason why more people aren't natural is that they never pay attention to their dreams. I've had nightmares since I was very little and was therefore forced to think about them.

[QUOTE=dreamingofdreaming;1072627]I've opened my mind to several experiences that have offered me clarity and deepness that is there for everyone to experience but only some will truely "see"....
QUOTE]
May I ask what these were? If it's private, than that's fine, no need to tell

Keep the responses coming guys/gals, pretty curious to some of these myself. I have a very strong imagination myself and very open minded, but, I think the fact that I can't recall dreams well which is holding me back

I had a few DILDs a year before I knew what LDing was. I mainly spent them panicking and trying to wake up.

Had lucid dreams before I knew what they were... I guess I qualify.

What kinds of lucids are your lucids? WILDs, DILDs? Subtypes of either? If you WILD, do you suffer from isolated sleep paralysis regularly? How regular is regular?

DILDs.

How long have you been LDing for? When did you start?

Not sure on exact age... 5 or so.

Are you able to induce LDs of the other variety? (meaning if you WILD, are you able to do RCs to DILD? If you normally DILD, have you ever successfully WILDed? Or, have you not put in the effort to do the other?)

I can DEILD. I do RCs to have DILDs now, since random ones are nothing to count on...

Are you able to increase your LD frequency by using induction methods?

Obviously.

What do you think it is about you that makes you lucid dream naturally? Lifestyle, mindframe, any ideas?

I was relatively observant and inquisitive as a child... I figure that didn't hurt. As well as having a very logical mindset... Otherwise, I doubt much else...

I still dont know fully what a LD is.

I wouldn't consider myself natural as yet but have had SP ever since I could remember.

Only around 10 years ago did i start to relax and control my dreams during the falling into SP.

At the moment all i have ever had is SP and WILD and not sure what the others are.

After falling out of LD I can bring back SP using my own weird method but do not re LD or re enter an LD, but in the morning have also had a vivid somewhere between the brought on SP and waking up.

The LD is always remembered as an actual memory. and vivid as a dream.

I was always told it was a nervous complaint but am finding out that there is something in this after all these years.

My grandfather on my dads side also had SP.

What kinds of lucids are your lucids? WILDs, DILDs? Subtypes of either? If you WILD, do you suffer from isolated sleep paralysis regularly? How regular is regular?

DILDs mostly, I don't know any of the sub-types.
When I do WILD it's through conscious 'effort' (though it's not a strain, it's relaxing). I don't get SP very often, though when I do it's the typical nightmarish stuff.

How long have you been LDing for? When did you start?

I can't remember when I first had an LD, though I can remember one specifically that is as far back as I can go. It was when I was about 6 or 7 years of age.

Are you able to induce LDs of the other variety? (meaning if you WILD, are you able to do RCs to DILD? If you normally DILD, have you ever successfully WILDed? Or, have you not put in the effort to do the other?)

I rarely WILD, but sometimes do depending on circumstances (mostly the mood I am in). I haven't done Reality Checks for a long time to DILD. It just seems to happen that I 'decide' to be more conscious. I can recall many dreams each night, but it's when I decide to be detached, or am prompted by someone/something then I enter lucidity. My 'normal' dreaming is more aware than it has ever been, and it's often repetitive and *torturous*. There's no consistent signs that catch my attention to question reality (nor do I often question reality), I usually am just very aware like a heightened lucid dream, but without the decision between dreaming and not.

Are you able to increase your LD frequency by using induction methods?

Yes, I have increased the ability to WILD by going through some methods I've read partially, which helped at first for noticing the different ways to enter, but then I started doing it as it comes. I don't follow a specific way to get lucid.

What do you think it is about you that makes you lucid dream naturally? Lifestyle, mindframe, any ideas?

Not very sure, but I think it has to do with my lifestyle and momentary perception.

What kinds of lucids are your lucids? WILDs, DILDs? Subtypes of either? If you WILD, do you suffer from isolated sleep paralysis regularly? How regular is regular?

Mostly DILD, but I do have an occasional DEILD, too though it's been months since I last had a successful DEILD. I might have had a WILD once or twice depending on where you draw the line between a DEILD and a WILD, but have never experienced any form of sleep paralysis while performing either of them. I have, however, experienced sleep paralysis a few times after a sudden wake up from a lucid dream.

How long have you been LDing for? When did you start?

From what I can remember, I had my first lucid dream 3 or 4 years back. It wasn't until several months later that I actual looked up the subject, but didn't have the patience to keep a dream journal. About 8 months ago, something sparked my interest again and here I am.

I've already answered question three in my first answer.

Are you able to increase your LD frequency by using induction methods?

Apart from the occasional DEILD, no.

What do you think it is about you that makes you lucid dream?

I'd say being the logical thinker that I am really helps. I've also always been fascinated by dreaming in general, which I suppose can't hurt.

Originally Posted by Shift

For the sake of simplicity, I'm going to define a natural as someone who has the ability to become lucid multiple times per month without putting in conscious effort or using induction techniques (but of course effort and induction techniques may get you lucid even more often). And/or the people who could lucid dream before they knew what it was called.

Dreamjournals don't mean squat. If you keep a dream journal, do nothing else, and are becoming lucid like 5+ times a month, yes I would consider that a natural. For the sake of my question being answered, these are the criteria I've already established. When I say 'simplicity' I mean simply gathering some interesting information rather than starting yet another meaningless debate on each individual's definition of a natural.

And please, don't talk about empaths on here. We have that nonsense beyond dreaming section for a reason. And private messages.

Originally Posted by moonshine

Again though, this is induction, which takes an unnatural effort.

Not convinced by shifts definition, but it is worth defining, because its something we read regularly on the board.
To be honest I'm often suspicious of those compelled to proclaim themselves "naturals" anyway.
Certainly I'd suggest either trolling and/or insecurity is a big motivating factor on a fair proportion of those.

I think that using induction techniques, and dream journals will usually end up causing spontaneous Lucids (DILDS).
The general heightened awareness of your dreaming state makes it somewhat inevitable.

In my mind, I'd say that if with no inductions, no drugs, no mantras, no journals, no efforts to recall dreams etc you still spontaneously have regular lucid dreams, then you're a natural.

In the end, we are all talking about the same thing. A natural is a person who can get lucid without putting port an effort. If you read my post again, that is what happened to me. Once I was "aware" of WILD, I had one. My other experiences have also happened without me trying i.e. during my work week when suddenly I find myself in the midst of a SPONTANEOUS WILD. SP is a NATURALLY occurring thing, so by getting it naturally and LDing from it, that would be a natural attribute.

Also, we are discussing why some people can put forth a huge effort and get nothing, while others put forth somewhat of an effort and get a ton of LDs. I don't see your point in creating a new definition, or claiming you are "weary" of those who call themselves naturals. Answer the questions Shift put in the beginning and we can see where you stand. The point of the thread is to compare others experience and see if maybe we can see some kind of common element between naturals and non naturals. (correct me if I'm wrong shift).

FYI - I rarely do RC's, I only keep a lucid dream journal and write it in once I have already had the lucid. I don't use any lucid machines, beats, alarms..... I get a LD without effort once every couple weeks.... when putting in the conscious effort (weekends) I will LD every time

Originally Posted by Shift

I know this has been done before but:



What kinds of lucids are your lucids? WILDs, DILDs? Subtypes of either? If you WILD, do you suffer from isolated sleep paralysis regularly? How regular is regular?

When I don't make an effort, DILD's. When I try I WILD. I only had a sleep paralysis episode when I was 9.

How long have you been LDing for? When did you start?

age 5.

Are you able to induce LDs of the other variety? (meaning if you WILD, are you able to do RCs to DILD? If you normally DILD, have you ever successfully WILDed? Or, have you not put in the effort to do the other?)

Yes I can do either, but I enjoy WILD's as I am homeschooled and can do it every morning with success.

Are you able to increase your LD frequency by using induction methods? Yes, that's why I joined DV.

What do you think it is about you that makes you lucid dream naturally? Lifestyle, mindframe, any ideas?

Well, whenever I am on a happy/natural "high" or euphoric right before bed, I always think " Oh I guess I'll LD tonight " and I will.

.

Originally Posted by Shift

As I've already stated, please stop spamming my post. <- exists for a reason.

Excuse me, but in the above case "spamming" = "responding to comment directed at me by you or others".
Hardly off topic.

Originally Posted by Shift

What kinds of lucids are your lucids? WILDs, DILDs? Subtypes of either? If you WILD, do you suffer from isolated sleep paralysis regularly? How regular is regular?

All of them. Don't suffer from SP. Average 2 times per week. I have had up to 3 over a weekend. I usually make an effort at the weekend. I have had spontaneous lucids during the week when I'm not even trying.

Originally Posted by Shift

How long have you been LDing for? When did you start?

I had lucids as a kid. I had them again at University. Theres been a couple of periods since then where I've had some success with laberges methods.

Originally Posted by Shift

Are you able to induce LDs of the other variety? (meaning if you WILD, are you able to do RCs to DILD? If you normally DILD, have you ever successfully WILDed? Or, have you not put in the effort to do the other?)

The majority of my Lucids are MILD/DILDS, but I have had success with DEILDS and WILDS.

Originally Posted by Shift

Are you able to increase your LD frequency by using induction methods?

Yes.

Originally Posted by Shift

What do you think it is about you that makes you lucid dream naturally? Lifestyle, mindframe, any ideas?

I don't think I am a natural. But to go with Shifts Definition: when I do occasionally have spontaneous lucids I would say it is because of my heightened level of dream awareness. I would say that keeping a dream journal is the primary factor in this.

Seriously...... ugh "face palms face"

Originally Posted by moonshine

Yes some people are better at achieving lucidity than others.
But this can be defined in other ways than natural or non natural I'm sure.

Exactly how would you describe this? If you are going to propose an argument, please offer the point... I'm all for hearing about all experiences and all sides of this topic but it is imperative that the evidence (or at least a theory) be presented first....


....... More to come later....

Lets keep on with the responses

I am too as long as you use to talk about it. I've already laid out the criteria for this thread, and if you aren't going to simply post your own responses by those definitions then feel free to start one with your own brand new shiny criteria. All other discussion should be kept to a different thread.

Originally Posted by dreamingofdreaming

Exactly how would you describe this?

In the case of conventional techniques I would describe it thus:
Some find achieving lucidity easier than others.

What do you think it is that makes YOU a natural lucid dreamer?
<< I guess I'm a lucid dreamer cus I have a high imagination? I can visualize things well? I'm not sure.

What kinds of lucids are your lucids? WILDs, DILDs? Subtypes of either? If you WILD, do you suffer from isolated sleep paralysis regularly? How regular is regular?
<<I usually become lucid in the middle of a dream, I don't know if I've ever had a WILD

How long have you been LDing for? When did you start?
I previously forgot how long I've had them. I used to think it was around 7 years old but now I think it was much younger, maybe ever since I could dream.

Are you able to induce LDs of the other variety? (meaning if you WILD, are you able to do RCs to DILD? If you normally DILD, have you ever successfully WILDed? Or, have you not put in the effort to do the other?)
<<I've never really put in much effort to WILD. If I ever did WILD, I don't remember a particular instance.

Are you able to increase your LD frequency by using induction methods?
<<I used to be able to. Now I don't usually bother.

What do you think it is about you that makes you lucid dream naturally? Lifestyle, mindframe, any ideas?[/QUOTE]
<<I believe I can. Maybe I see the world more logically than others, I even did as a little kid, so that when I had a dream my logic kicked in and said, "this isn't right."

I think Lucid Dreams are just a skill you have to perfect. It became really easy for me after a few attempts. I had a few quick moments of Lucidity in my dreams before but I could never hold onto it, it would be so exciting that I would wake up. But then I just thought about that experience, like a memory, could see it, remember it, ext. Then It would happen more since I had that little taste, until I was Lucid my whole dream.

It really started happening when I went to England for 6 weeks, for 2 weeks straight I would have a Lucid dream every single night! It was so intense, but it helped me induce lucid dreams because I would always be back home in my dream and id think "What the hell? I should be in england right now!" Then after thinking about it Id realize I was dreaming! and I was still in England! then Id test things out, like spinning a toilet around or staring into a mirror (which is intense). Then feeling myself, like putting my hands together until I could actually FEEL my hands touching, then pinching myself within my dream until I could actually feel pain from it. It then becomes a complete reality, you can stare into a mirror, feel your hair, breathe, laugh, dance, cry and feel your tears, focus on TINY details within a car or watch the city fly by.

What I think is the biggest block for people wanting to be lucid and cant is preconceived notions going into dreaming. Because it's not reality as we know it. It's INSTANT manifestations, without limits of time or space. So when you're in your dream, there is no framework that is holding you back, you can be wherever whenever you want. It's just one step at a time until you can let go of the habbits of time and space that you've created in your waking reality.

I don't think anyone needs to use methods, it's just practice and understanding. Learn from every dream you have about the nature of dreams and what freedoms there are in dreams. Once that is apparent then you step into a deeper understanding that brings more freedom within your dreams. It's really that simple.

This is for all the naturals out there. What do you think it is that makes YOU a natural lucid dreamer?

What kinds of lucids are your lucids? WILDs, DILDs? Subtypes of either? If you WILD, do you suffer from isolated sleep paralysis regularly? How regular is regular?
I DILD, and occasionally accidentely WILD.

How long have you been LDing for? When did you start?
Since I could remember my nightmares.

Are you able to induce LDs of the other variety? (meaning if you WILD, are you able to do RCs to DILD? If you normally DILD, have you ever successfully WILDed? Or, have you not put in the effort to do the other?)
Yes, I normally DILD, though WILDs come naturally, to an extent, too.

Are you able to increase your LD frequency by using induction methods?
Yes, but it normally isn't needed

What do you think it is about you that makes you lucid dream naturally? Lifestyle, mindframe, any ideas?[/QUOTE]
Probably both. I normally look around and examine random objects. My lifestyle is very imaginitive and creative, so dreams fit in there.
I look at things like objects and ideas, and analyze them. This helps in dreams.
Ask, if you need clarification.

Originally Posted by Shift

I know this has been done before but:

For the sake of simplicity, I'm going to define a natural as someone who has the ability to become lucid multiple times per month without putting in conscious effort or using induction techniques (but of course effort and induction techniques may get you lucid even more often). And/or the people who could lucid dream before they knew what it was called.

This is for all the naturals out there. What do you think it is that makes YOU a natural lucid dreamer?
I've had several lucids before knowing about lucid dreaming...but I still don't consider myself a natural, because I've only had a handful of lucids before I learned about them.



What kinds of lucids are your lucids? WILDs, DILDs? Subtypes of either? If you WILD, do you suffer from isolated sleep paralysis regularly? How regular is regular?
Before I knew about LDing, they were all DILDS, and I've had sleep paralysis symptoms all of my life. I'll probably get an episode once a month...and if it's early in the night, it'll happen back to back...of course this is before I learned SP can lead me to WILDs.

How long have you been LDing for? When did you start?
childhood all i can say...I haven't had that many lucids pre-knowledge...maybe one a year at the most.

Are you able to induce LDs of the other variety? (meaning if you WILD, are you able to do RCs to DILD? If you normally DILD, have you ever successfully WILDed? Or, have you not put in the effort to do the other?)

When it comes to DILDs, I don't RC...I just know i'm dreaming.
Pre knowledge I couldn't do any other technique...post knowledge I can WILD sometimes without any effort if I get a random episode of SP. And i've gotten a couple of DEILDs

Are you able to increase your LD frequency by using induction methods?
Yes, if my WILD attempts don't work, my chances of DILDs and DEILDs increase.

After my first year of straight dream journal entries and real attempts I averaged about 4-5 LDs a month. When I stopped all efforts the numbers dropped down to about 1 a month...which is still more than I've ever had before coming to DVs.


What do you think it is about you that makes you lucid dream naturally? Lifestyle, mindframe, any ideas?

The main things I think is about how often I sleep and how often I'll get SP. Sometimes I'll sleep for close to 10 hours or more on any given day...waking up and going back to sleep being a little more conscious of the fact that I know I'm dreaming.

And SP...sometimes lots of caffine, stress, exercise will bring it on as soon as I go to sleep.....too much sleep will also bring it on =P