is everything seen in a lucid dream???

[acillis]

hello when i try and explain my supernatual experiences to people, they are quick to say, that im not experienceing anything supernatual or paranormal, what im experienceing is sleep paralysis..... dont get me wrong i have experienced a few different forms of sleep paralysis so i know what to look for. what i wanted to ask some people today, if you believe everything you see in a lucid dream is considered hypnagogic and hypnopompic??? normally these are seen or experienced when you are actually in the sleep paralysis state, not when your in fact dreaming consciously. but when i tell people my experiences they blame it on sleep paralysis, when in fact i was not in the stage of sleep paralysis but full blown lucid.... im curious what your thoughts are thanks.

[skysaw]

There is nothing supernatural at all about lucid dreaming. Framing it that way is likely turn people off, and have them disbelieve your experiences. While there are similarities between a fully lucid dream and the imagery conjured up in a half-wakened state, and one can transform into the other, they are very different animals indeed.

[Oneironaut Zero]

I'm not quite sure I follow you. What are the "supernatural experiences" that you say you're having? Are you having them as you're falling asleep, or when you're well within the dream state. If it's happening as you're just laying down for bed, or in the early mornings, it's more than likely either hypnogogia or hypnopompia. And sometimes the body doesn't always run like clockwork. Sleep phases and symptoms cross. Sometimes you'll be fully awake, but still seeing dream visualizations (happens to me every now and then). So you can't really discount something only because it's not what normally happens.

[drewmandan]

If you're telling people that you're being visited by aliens or demons when you go to bed, then you deserve the reactions you get.

[Bonsay]

Sometimes you feel the effects of sleep paralysis in the dream state, whether it's because you're slowly waking up or some random dream phenomenon. Also note that you're always in a state of Sleep Paralysis (when dreaming). Unless you're a bit strange which would make the whole dreaming experience dangerous. For now I agree with your friends. Supernatural things like witches and a succubus are usually in relation with SP.

[acillis]

Oneironaut i havnt had what i would call a real bad sleep paralysis episode my encounters take place well into the dreaming stage <what makes me lucid half the time> i havnt had any alien experiences unless you count shadow beings as aliens, which i do not. i very much doubt the shadow beings i have encountered are caused from sleep paralysis since i only encounter them while in the dreaming stage and lucid. if i ever did have a bad sleep paralysis episode it was this-- i awoke and could not move, but i could see the whole room, i was about to will my self out of my body, when i heard evil laughter which made me stay put. but some dude in a black trench coat was somehow standing beside me and sticking his hand inside of body playing with my organs, which really hurt to be honest. whats funny about this, i had the same thing happened a few times, always the same man trying to play with my organs, its simply crazy let me tell ya! but to be honest, im not counting that as a supernatural experience im only counting experiences while i am in fact either dreaming or lucid its very easy for a person to say this or that. but be honest people if you never encountered a shadow being, dont be quick to say its caused from this or dat. people i know who have encountered them, believe in the encounter they had because mainly of the energy felt. they dont beleive its caused by sleep paralysis........ ................... to the person who said that even in dreams we are under sleep paralysis. yeah but your not aware of the degree of it:

[DuB]

So let me get this straight... you had a dream about meeting "shadow beings" and you believe this means that it really happened?

[drewmandan]

/facepalm

[skysaw]

So let me get this straight... you had a dream about meeting "shadow beings" and you believe this means that it really happened? I read it as having a "shadow being" visit while awake is not considered supernatural, but having it happen in a dream is.

[acillis]

to learn just how many people experience shadow beings within lucid dreams or spiritual dreams <astral travel>

[skysaw]

I see the confusion now. This forum is "General Lucid Discussion." I believe you are looking for "Beyond Dreaming."

[Conquer]

There is nothing supernatural at all about lucid dreaming. Framing it that way is likely turn people off, and have them disbelieve your experiences. Yes! Thank you! I agree 100%. Frankly, I'm also 100% sick of theories from the beyond dreaming section.

[drewmandan]

Yes! Thank you! I agree 100%. Frankly, I'm also 100% sick of theories from the beyond dreaming section. Agreed. Because of those nuts, lucid dreaming has gotten a bad rap. Perhaps if more people took it seriously, we would have a lot more serious science being done on it, and perhaps more scientifically tested induction techniques. But instead we have just one serious scientist (LaBerge) and I can't even talk to my friends about it without them going "okay...".

[Conquer]

I know what you mean. Kinda leads to my next topic here.

[acillis]

there not nuts, big deal if they believe differently then you i actually used to believe all lucid dreamers were actually nice people, but this isnt true im discovering

[ClouD]

If something happened, it happened. Simply put, you experienced what you did, but now you are not experiencing what happened before. Arguing that what you experienced is real in terms of now is idiocy because you are not experiencing it now, rather preaching to others that you went through something and want to give it and yourself more recognition than has been, or is being had. You apply labels to things, such as 'sleep paralysis' and 'lucid dream'. Differentiating between this and that is arrogance in the field of the claimed unknown. Perhaps stop playing the little boy measuring his dick and hoping others to do and be the same. _____ Drewmandan, it is because of your arrogance that you are acting as closed-minded as the OP about definitions and knowledge. As for me, not to ask why, this and that.

[skysaw]

You apply labels to things, such as 'sleep paralysis' and 'lucid dream'. Differentiating between this and that is arrogance in the field of the claimed unknown. I can't tell at all what side of the argument you are on here, but "lucid dream" and "sleep paralysis" are perfectly valid terms with long-standing definitions. Furthermore, Lucid Dreaming is not part of the "unknown." We know perfectly well what it is. Whether the supernatural exists or not, lucid dreaming is not part of it. It would be like saying that an existing haunted house means that "houses" are part of the supernatural.

[ClouD]

I can't tell at all what side of the argument you are on here, but "lucid dream" and "sleep paralysis" are perfectly valid terms with long-standing definitions. Furthermore, Lucid Dreaming is not part of the "unknown." We know perfectly well what it is. Whether the supernatural exists or not, lucid dreaming is not part of it. It would be like saying that an existing haunted house means that "houses" are part of the supernatural. I am on the only side - mine. The OP flippantly applied labels and presuppositions. "supernatual experiences" "i have experienced a few different forms of sleep paralysis" "normally these are seen or experienced when you are actually in the sleep paralysis state, not when your in fact dreaming consciously" "when in fact i was not in the stage of sleep paralysis but full blown lucid...." _____ Nothing is "supernatural". Everything is of nature - everything is natural. The term denotes heavy connotations, that can lead to arrogant remarks like drewmandan's.

[TJam]

Acillis, please invest into using complete sentences with capital letters and periods, your posts were a nightmare in themselves to read. Anyway, I digress. Several years ago, I experienced my first waking sleep paralysis and I remember it quite vividly. I thought I had woken up, but I couldn't move. All of a sudden this shadow thing comes and starts letting out this horrifying scream in my face. For someone who is 15 years old, this was probably the most terrifying experience in my life. I immediately tried to find what was going on by using the worst possible source, the internet. Oh christ, what a mistake. Almost immediately, I found myself on those stupid websites about using supernatural powers to fight demons and how the world was going to end in demonic warfare in 2012, and being young and naive, I bought every word of there rubbish. I spent a few nights hopping on one foot trying to blow holes in the wall with my mind, because of the fabricated information that was put out there by a bunch of teenagers. When I told these kids what was happening with my sleep paralysis, they immediately told me I had demons in my house. Once again, being naive and stupid I believed them and started to resort to ineffective and stupid paranormal ways to make it stop. Eventually, I just realized how stupid and pointless it was and I tried to put a more logical explanation to what was happening to me. So I talked to my psychology teacher in high school. I explained what was going on and asked her if they were just nightmares. She said they were probably known as sleep paralysis and actually went on the internet and printed out some information for me to read. The sleep paralysis never actually stopped, but I learned how to deal with it and now I no longer have any horrifying experiences. I just simply ride them out. Case and point. What I was experiencing was not supernatural in any way, shape, or form. It was completely explainable. My guess is, that what happened to me happened to you. You bought into all the crap from these paranormal losers. I'm not saying all paranormal don't exist, that's not my place. But, I am saying, there is a rational explanation to what is going on with you, so don't be so quick to jump the paranormal fluff bandwagon. Trust me when I say, these so-called "shadow beings" probably have better things to do than play feel the organs with some kid in bed. K?

[skysaw]

I am on the only side - mine. The OP flippantly applied labels and presuppositions. "supernatual experiences" "i have experienced a few different forms of sleep paralysis" "normally these are seen or experienced when you are actually in the sleep paralysis state, not when your in fact dreaming consciously" "when in fact i was not in the stage of sleep paralysis but full blown lucid...." Ok, I agree then. And I also picked up on the confusion about SP and LDs. If you are having a lucid dream, you can't be experiencing sleep paralysis, else you wouldn't be dreaming. What's more, if you dream that you are having sleep paralysis (quite possible), and you believe that dream, then you are not lucid.

[drewmandan]

Nothing is "supernatural". Everything is of nature - everything is natural. The term denotes heavy connotations, that can lead to arrogant remarks like drewmandan's. Oh yes. How arrogant of me to trust science and think rationally.

[ClouD]

Oh yes. How arrogant of me to trust science and think rationally. You trust that ideas formed by others are true, and that rationality is objective? You claim scientists as your own, yet science as something that is objective, also? You judge good/bad relative to negativity that you experience/d from the strangers you like to call friends? Then you quote Nothing is "supernatural". Everything is of nature - everything is natural. The term denotes heavy connotations, that can lead to arrogant remarks like drewmandan's. and give a sarcastic remark? (did you read what it says?) You say "lucid dreaming has a bad rap", yet that is what brought you here with this specific viewpoint, and decline arrogance? You want 'objective' scientific advancement towards something that is experienced supposedly alone, yet say that the practices and claimed personal experiences are from 'nuts', unless they seemingly match your own ideals? Arrogance? Sarcasm? Idiocy? Have a nice day, venerable sir.

[Shady]

Oh yes. How arrogant of me to trust science and think rationally. Your right; being rational means demeaning a large group of people who might believe something different then you based on the fact that there's one or two "nut jobs" who maybe take things a bit to far. Maybe one or two is a wee bit of an exaggeration; but you get the idea. I agree people tend to stretch the boundaries a lot (to far mostly); but that doesn't mean they are wrong and you are right. It means neither of you have a clue what you are talking about 'yet' so you resort back to what you believe to be 'factual' because someone smart told you that's the way it was. Just because someone doesn't have a Ph. D from Stanford doesn't mean they are crazy or wrong. Lucid dreaming was around long before a magical scientist waved his pretty little wand over it to make it 'science'. You do know your allowed to suggest information or resources to 'misguided' people without completely being an asshole right? Thank you for reminding me why I dont return to this forum more then once a week; silly arguments are just clogging up every post. The ignorance is strong in this one. Oh and before you go retaliating back with your superior knowledge; please remember that you have no clue what your talking about; and anything you say is just going to sound like its coming from a 5 year old talking about quantum mechanics. If you want to come back here and act like a tough guy think again. Its pretty clear that you don't ever leave your house and spend your whole day ripping on people who don't have as much spare time as you. Get out in the real world; maybe you are the smartest person you know.. but you really need to think before you speak. I, along with any other sane person learn about things from places other then Wikipedia and Google; get over yourself drew. @ The op: Hopefully you pulled a decent answer from the one or two actually decent people who replied with a real answer; if not feel free to throw me a PM and hopefully I'll be able to clear it up a bit; it sounds to me like you are simply over thinking a few things; nothing more nothing less.

[Conquer]

there not nuts, big deal if they believe differently then you i actually used to believe all lucid dreamers were actually nice people, but this isnt true im discovering (Acillis's message [above] was sent to me as a private message) Well, first of all I never said anyone was nuts, the fact that you're saying that makes you sound like you're insecure about not being "nuts". Second, just because someone lucid dreams it doesn't make them a different person. Stop stereotyping, its very unethical. Just because I agree with someone's opinion doesn't make me a bad person. If anything, you're the unjust person for judging me by an opinion (something everyone is entitled to). I believe drewmandan is very correct. Lucid Dreaming's bad reputation does (very) likely originate from strange, conveniently unprovable theories like shared dreams, astral travel, etc. For the record, unless you're telepathic (would be easy to prove if it was true) you can't have shared dreams. It's impossible. Yes. Impossible. Give up from trying to convince the community that you've "experienced" it. Sure, believers are going on faith. But I'm going on facts. Anyone who disagrees is obviously only upset because they've declared that they've "experienced" it, or think they have. You're the ones that give lucid dreaming a bad reputation. Please stop arguing and accept it. I do believe everyone should be entitled to their own opinion, but spreading an opinion like that is what makes everyone think lucid dreamers are crazy. Congratuf**kinglations. This reply is for acillis. Just thought I'd post it here to get some additional feedback in the topic. Please don't flame it. You flamers. Hahah, just kidding.

[drewmandan]

Your right; being rational means demeaning a large group of people who might believe something different then you based on the fact that there's one or two "nut jobs" who maybe take things a bit to far. Maybe one or two is a wee bit of an exaggeration; but you get the idea. I agree people tend to stretch the boundaries a lot (to far mostly); but that doesn't mean they are wrong and you are right. It means neither of you have a clue what you are talking about 'yet' so you resort back to what you believe to be 'factual' because someone smart told you that's the way it was. Just because someone doesn't have a Ph. D from Stanford doesn't mean they are crazy or wrong. Lucid dreaming was around long before a magical scientist waved his pretty little wand over it to make it 'science'. You do know your allowed to suggest information or resources to 'misguided' people without completely being an asshole right? Thank you for reminding me why I dont return to this forum more then once a week; silly arguments are just clogging up every post. The ignorance is strong in this one. Oh and before you go retaliating back with your superior knowledge; please remember that you have no clue what your talking about; and anything you say is just going to sound like its coming from a 5 year old talking about quantum mechanics. If you want to come back here and act like a tough guy think again. Its pretty clear that you don't ever leave your house and spend your whole day ripping on people who don't have as much spare time as you. Get out in the real world; maybe you are the smartest person you know.. but you really need to think before you speak. I, along with any other sane person learn about things from places other then Wikipedia and Google; get over yourself drew. @ The op: Hopefully you pulled a decent answer from the one or two actually decent people who replied with a real answer; if not feel free to throw me a PM and hopefully I'll be able to clear it up a bit; it sounds to me like you are simply over thinking a few things; nothing more nothing less. Ironically, I have studied quantum mechanics in university. Anyway, as evidenced by this wall of text, I have clearly hit a nerve with my simple statement regarding lucid dreaming and the supernatural. Now what you should do is go back and think critically about your own beliefs. I'm perfectly comfortable in my position because I'm backed by science and facts. But by the looks of it, you need to write huge essays on how someone who disagrees with you is stupid just to feel justified in your beliefs. Yay for you.