Thread: Do your control your dreams? Or do your dreams still control you?

Originally Posted by ZenMan12

Ego, desire, lust, which happened in previous dreams, now take the form of conscious effort.

That's pretty much the point. These things are only negative if you let them rule you (even then, it is a societal moral judgment). Once you learn to live with them, respect them, and embrace them, you can stop being controlled by them. These instincts will always be a part of you. You just need to learn to be at peace with them.

Originally Posted by ZenMan12

If you have to work for freedom doesn't that in and of it sense become an enslavement?

I don't believe so. If that were true, we would abandon any path that required hard work. That is not freedom, it is laziness.

I think the journey is an important part of the learning process.

Originally Posted by Robot_Butler

That's pretty much the point. These things are only negative if you let them rule you (even then, it is a societal moral judgment). Once you learn to live with them, respect them, and embrace them, you can stop being controlled by them. These instincts will always be a part of you. You just need to learn to be at peace with them.



I don't believe so. If that were true, we would abandon any path that required hard work. That is not freedom, it is laziness.

I think the journey is an important part of the learning process.

I do believe embracing is a huge part of it but would you embrace the dreams that you couldn't control as well? Would not doing that lead to anxiety and fear?

When I talk about ego (and lust/desire which I didn't mean necessarily sexual but rather the longing for something you can't/don't have), I'm talking about interpretations of your self and what society has upon you.

People do lucid dreams for all sorts of reasons. Whether it is to fight off nightmares, or to see how far can the mind go.

The aversion to fear (say taking conscious control of your nightmares so you won't suffer) is another form of fear. You fear have those nightmares so you create action to prevent it. But this doesn't solve the problem for when the it doesn't work, you have the nightmares. Or when you actually do advert from it, it needs to always be there or else "if I don't have a lucid dream" than this will happen to me.

Also doesn't embracing mean that no more action or effort is required to attain "freedom," nibbanna, or what have you?

You're right. We can embrace dreams without having to control them. I do, however, think control can help us learn to deal with some of the more difficult aspects of ourselves. In a lucid dream, we can master things that we are unable to control in real life. It is an empowering feeling to face your greatest fears in a nightmare and watch them disappear. It is a different experience from waking up and later telling yourself, "It was only a nightmare."

I think you are confusing control with lucidity. Lucid dreaming is not all about controlling your dreams. It is about learning to be aware of your dreams while they are happening. I think that is freedom. You can learn to stop being controlled by your random subconscious thoughts. You can free yourself from those cyclic thought patterns that hog your attention during both the day and night.

Originally Posted by Robot_Butler

You're right. We can embrace dreams without having to control them. I do, however, think control can help us learn to deal with some of the more difficult aspects of ourselves. In a lucid dream, we can master things that we are unable to control in real life. It is an empowering feeling to face your greatest fears in a nightmare and watch them disappear. It is a different experience from waking up and later telling yourself, "It was only a nightmare."

I think you are confusing control with lucidity. Lucid dreaming is not all about controlling your dreams. It is about learning to be aware of your dreams while they are happening. I think that is freedom. You can learn to stop being controlled by your random subconscious thoughts. You can free yourself from those cyclic thought patterns that hog your attention during both the day and night.

It is great having this conversation I'm sure your getting a kick out of it.

But the fear wouldn't exist if it wasn't a fear through the our cognitive process? This starts to step into sociopathology (which I believe are different stages and the dsm isn't all correct). Embracing it without control, if done enough time will shift a person's view on it. They will become desensitized. But if one control is a mean to advert the problem, while I agree creates a great satisfaction of beating the nightmare, or what have you, something else will enviably come (whether in the form of dreams or other part in life).