Thread: Another "false" lucid?

I won't, but I was really looking forward to it.
I don't think it ws so much wrong information as wrong terminology.

Well, in that case, my LD count is through the roof. My main concern now is "waking up" and getting rid of dream logic in a dream. Would this come with stability and vividness?

Dream logic? I think I know what you mean. I guess it's just a matter of clearing your head. Your logic centre of your brain is usually off during dreams, which is why we have trouble realizing we are dreaming. Normally, it's turned on once we are lucid. If you feel "hazy" try to remember something from real life or do a simple math problem like 2 + 2.

EDIT: By the way, I'm not sure how scientifically accurate this is, I'm just going off what I've read before. But it should help you out to do that.

That's actually what I meant by "consciousness", I meant the logic center. Unfortunately, I think I realize I'm dreaming mainly intuitively (because I've gotten very used to it over a few years), so my logic center doesn't seem to turn on. I'll try the math thing.

Hmm, maybe restate what you mean by dream logic, because it really shouldn't be hard to have normal logic return. If it even goes away, again, I'm not 100% sure.

Dream logic is something most people have in dreams as far as I know o_O. It's how your mind is sort of sluggish and slow in dreams, or just having bad dream memory and being confused by everything. Hmm.. I'll see if I can find a definition

I don't think that's completely correct. What I know as dream logic is really the inability to recognize unreal occurences in dreams.

I don't think your mind should be sluggish or slow for prolonged periods in your dreams... I'm still not really sure what you mean by all that. But in any case, none of that should happen.

Well I've never actually heard someone define dream logic, just heard references, as well as experienced a very dumb brain in dreams. At any rate, my brain in dreams is far from my brain outside of dreams.

You think that consciousness is equal to dream control? That's surprising for me.

For all intents and purposes, when you say that your mind does what you expect in a dream, you're describing indirect dream control. Controlling a dream is basically controlling your own expectations and moods.

What does control of your expectations and moods have to do with your level of consciousness? In daily life we never pay attention to either of those things, and the paragon of true consciosness for you must be daily life consciousness I guess...

Anyway my advise to you is to practice, you can't learn to do anything LD-wise by talking about it in a forum. Here there are no conditions to practice similar things. If you want more vividness try making dreams more vivid, for more control try controlling something, etc. If you don't already have ideas, you can look for tutorials on these things here.

Good luck!

What? No. I almost always can control my dreams, and am never really "conscious" (to my definition, which would be the logic center of my brain active).

I have tried doing these things in-dream, but with little result, because I'm caught in a placebo reality, and without being able to really get my very logical brain going, the words "it's just a dream, you can change it.. come on.. do it already" mean very little to my dream. That's why I'm hoping someone can suggest ways that "trick" the brain.

And that's not a very rare goal; tricking the brain is essentially why RCs and stabilization techniques exist. If the brain did everything we wanted it to on a whim, we wouldn't need these things. Because traditional methods of brain tricking seem to fail for me, I'm hoping that will suggest ways of getting my logic center going, or alternative ways of tricking my brain for vividness.

It's true that my mind does what I expect, but that's the annoying part. My passive control is more the placebo already in-place, going against what my conscious mind is trying to do, like keeping the dream dream-like. I say "it's a dream", but my mind doesn't really get it, so my passive control, directed by my subconscious mind, keeps the dream where it is.

guau robotgymnast, you are explaining perfectly what happened to me with ....emmm......"illogical lucid dreams"?
I mean, I'm in the dream, I "become lucid", but I still can't control myself, and my logic doesn't work, so I RC, a stabilize, I do a lot of things that are based on intuition, not on logic.

I mean, maybe we can give a new definition, they are not False Lucid Dreams, they are like Illogical Lucid Dreams....or.......
I don't know.

but I understand what you are saying.
so, you must answer me something.

Knowing that one is always Conscious....

we can define your dreams like this?(like mine, if possible)

:

A dream in where one is aware he/she is dreaming, but his Logical part of the brain doesn't wake up, so, he/she(the person, not the dream) feels like sluggy, dreamy, shady, and that confuses the user,his/her acts will be based on intuition, and not on logic like in Waking Life.
suppossing that if the logical part of brain wakes up, it will clarify the dreamer, then we can call it a Lucid Dream

is that ok?

because if so, I MUST CHANGE THE DEFINITION OF FALSE LUCID DREAM, AND THAT'S VERY IMPORTANT, If not, I'm carrying newbies to the failure!

answer please, and hope we can overcome this problem together !

Exactly, that was my definition of lucid dream, because just knowing you're dreaming and having control is such a normal part of my dreams, it didn't really deserve a definition in my brain.

You're describing my dreams very well. I'd like to wake up the logic center. Could this be done with stabilization techniques and RCs?

I aver that:

Awake=you are Awake
Nonlucid= you dream but think you are Awake
Lucid= you are there, just like in real life, and know it's a dream
False Lucid= you perhaps dream about lucidity, or that you are in a lucid but later you wake up and are like wtf it was just like a normal dream

However, only YOU can truly know what it was. Also please note that in cases where you loose lucidity later in the dream it may seem like a false lucid but it's not.

But how can you are dream you are in a lucid without knowing what a lucid is? So, you believe you're in a dream in which you know you're dreaming? Either way, you're aware you're in a dream, which would make it a lucid.

..or am I missing something?

RobotGymnast, I would not hear that definition, at least for now.
I'm sure the problem is the logic in dreams.
how can we wake up the logical part of the brain?
that's the main point!

That's true. Any new ideas?

I would like to see experienced lucid dreamers talk about this and help, but I don't see too many.

My ideas are:

-every time you RC become HIPER HIPER AWARE
-every time you RC try to do a mathemathical operation with numbers not higher than 20, every time with different numbers, and really think about the operation you are doing

I don't know anymore

it makes sense, but what did you mean "become hyper hyper aware"?

A non-lucid conscious dream: You have attempted to WILD, but then given up. While in actuality you are in a dream (such as those experienced by APers/OBErs), you do not realize this fact but are in possession of varying degrees of your waking, rational, mental faculties. Or, you have a false awakening. Without realizing you are dreaming, you are 'awake' and begin moving about getting ready for your day, etc.

A lucid conscious dream: You have WILDed or become lucid via DILD. You realize that the things around you are a dream. You are conscious, with varying degrees of your waking, rational, mental faculties.

A non-lucid unconscious dream: You think you are the pope who is on a mystical quest to procreate with the easter bunny so that your colored eggs will be able to be launched into space and take over the universe because tiny copies of you exist in each egg. You see nothing wrong with this. OR, you have a dream that you are lucid dreaming, without actually realizing that you are dreaming or having any actual waking-mental consciousness.

A lucid non-conscious dream: Doesn't exist. You have to be able to actually, mentally, consciously really realize that you are dreaming to be lucid. Your non-conscious dream self, stating that you are lucid, can happen as a dream behavior with no actual rational thought being applied and no understanding existing. This is what is referred to, by the member Mariano, as a false-lucid dream, and is confusing the hell out of everyone. This is a very very simple concept, but it seems only the simple-minded or those who have never experienced a lucid dream struggle with.

I think that the staff need to end this 'false lucid' nonsense. False lucid dreams are just non-lucid dreams where you dream that you are lucid. Just like a false awakening, but sans lucidity and in this case sans consciousness. A dream of something, but a non-lucid and a non-conscious dream of something. This is becoming too confusing, there are a handful of members who have become obsessed with this idea and continue discussing it even though it's a simple concept, and it's only going to confuse the fuck out of everyone new to lucid dreaming. If you dream about lucid dreaming, but don't actually consciously say 'oh I'm dreaming', then you are not lucid dreaming. You're just having a non-lucid dream.

Originally Posted by Shift

A non-lucid conscious dream: You have attempted to WILD, but then given up. While in actuality you are in a dream (such as those experienced by APers/OBErs), you do not realize this fact but are in possession of varying degrees of your waking, rational, mental faculties. Or, you have a false awakening. Without realizing you are dreaming, you are 'awake' and begin moving about getting ready for your day, etc.

A lucid conscious dream: You have WILDed or become lucid via DILD. You realize that the things around you are a dream. You are conscious, with varying degrees of your waking, rational, mental faculties.

A non-lucid unconscious dream: You think you are the pope who is on a mystical quest to procreate with the easter bunny so that your colored eggs will be able to be launched into space and take over the universe because tiny copies of you exist in each egg. You see nothing wrong with this. OR, you have a dream that you are lucid dreaming, without actually realizing that you are dreaming or having any actual waking-mental consciousness.

A lucid non-conscious dream: Doesn't exist. You have to be able to actually, mentally, consciously really realize that you are dreaming to be lucid. Your non-conscious dream self, stating that you are lucid, can happen as a dream behavior with no actual rational thought being applied and no understanding existing. This is what is referred to, by the member Mariano, as a false-lucid dream, and is confusing the hell out of everyone. This is a very very simple concept, but it seems only the simple-minded or those who have never experienced a lucid dream struggle with.

I think that the staff need to end this 'false lucid' nonsense. False lucid dreams are just non-lucid dreams where you dream that you are lucid. Just like a false awakening, but sans lucidity and in this case sans consciousness. A dream of something, but a non-lucid and a non-conscious dream of something. This is becoming too confusing, there are a handful of members who have become obsessed with this idea and continue discussing it even though it's a simple concept, and it's only going to confuse the fuck out of everyone new to lucid dreaming. If you dream about lucid dreaming, but don't actually consciously say 'oh I'm dreaming', then you are not lucid dreaming. You're just having a non-lucid dream.

I couldn't have said it any better myself. Not a word there I disagree with.

Locked~

PM a staff member with any concerns you might have.