Thread: Are we learning?

Originally Posted by SleepyKitty

When we are in our dream worlds are we able to learn new things? It is all of our own knowlege isn't it? How would we be able to learn new things if what we are doing in our heads is already there? We are just looking at the same information we already knew we had, right?

Yes we most likely only have the informations that are already there. (Expect of course you have some tape or CD running during your sleep)

But learning is more then just "saving data".
You still have to understand the data... make logic connections betwin the Informations. Its like solving a puzzle...

Just some Ideas from a _still_ lucid noob.

Originally Posted by SleepyKitty

When we are in our dream worlds are we able to learn new things? It is all of our own knowlege isn't it? How would we be able to learn new things if what we are doing in our heads is already there? We are just looking at the same information we already knew we had, right?

Yeah, there was a topic asking about the possibility of studying while lucid, which lead to that exact question, if it were possible to gain new knowledge while lucid. I don't think it's possible to gain any amount of new knowledge while lucid, though you may gain new insights or ideas. Like, you're not going to learn historical events or concepts in music theory. If you've learned about them before you might understand or comprehend them in a dream/lucid dream, but you're not gaining new knowledge per se. When you're dreaming, you're aware in a world separate from the external world, and for that reason I don't believe new knowledge can be gained while lucid.

EDIT: Having a tape play by your ear while lucid (or any other form of external communication being sent to you while you're asleep) doesn't count to me as gaining new knowledge FROM the dreamworld, in case anyone was going to point that out.

There was a Nova show called "WHAT ARE DREAMS?", part of which dealt with this. I recently discovered iTunes carries it, if anyone is interested (I think it's a fantastic show): http://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/M...19653&s=143441

I costs $1.99, as any TV show does on iTunes. I already know the show isn't available on YouTube... I checked.

But basically, in part of the show, they demonstrated research done on rats that had electrodes implanted into their brains. They'd have the rats run a maze with food at the end and watch the signals from the electrodes on a monitor, then they'd watch as the rats slept. Interestingly, the same signals showed up in the same sequence while the rats were dreaming that showed up while they were running the maze. In other words, they were solving the maze in their sleep. The next day, after "sleeping on it", the rats who were allowed to sleep and dream were now able to solve the maze much more easily. They didn't allow some of them to sleep (or to dream or something, forget the details now) and those rats didn't do any better than they did the first day... they didn't 'learn' the maze.

Then they showed a sleep and dream study clinic working with people where they'd have them play a video game about skiing during the day before sleeping. The people had electrodes taped on (not implanted into the brain, but can still pick up electrical activity from the brain and muscle twitches etc). The same thing happened as with the rats... the people ran through the same patterns of cognition that occurred when they were playing the video game in their sleep, and the next day they had improved at the game.

The dreams they had weren't necessarily ABOUT playing the game or skiing, but as they dreamed the mind was sorting through the info and arranging it into meaningful patterns.

Thy then showed test results for people who had all studied the day before (If I remember this right). Some of them had been awakened each time before going into REM sleep... IE they weren't allowed to dream. These people didn't do well on the test. The ones who were allowed a good full night of sleep did significantly better.


Let me also add... many great inventions and discoveries and works of art came from inspiration that occurred in dreams. Einstein of course discovered some of the important ideas of Relativity in dreams (check my sig)... the sewing machine was partly designed according to a dream by its inventor (dreamed of being attacked by cannibals with spears... each spear had a hole near the tip... he was trying to work out where to put the hole on the needle). And many other examples. But in these instances it's because the person had been very actively pursuing the idea, in some cases for a long time, and the intuitive mind was able to work the rough parts out in REM and present them in dream form.

So yes, there is true meaning behind the old saying "let me sleep on it".