Thread: Can animals lucid dream?

Originally posted by CharlesKennedy
This thought hit me when i just went into the kitchen a few minutes ago and my little doggy was looking as snug as a bug in a rug asleep as well as wagging her tail.
So i left her saying 'you must be having a good dream chasing cats or something like that'
Then i thought can animals become lucid?

No.

Though, if they can, there's no way to prove it since we can't comprehensively communicate with them. This evidence will also support that animals do not even nearly have the comprehension required to lucid dream.

So.. as a scientist; I would say no. As a philosopher; I would say maybe, but right now there's no way to prove it.

I think they can. If an animal has the capacity to dream (anyone who's had a dog knows that they dream) has the ability to realize that it's dreaming IMO. I often wonder if that's the reason cats sleep so much...

Ruddy hell if me cats can lucid dream better than I can what chance have I got Lol


I've always seen animals in the state of mind where you can imagine we would be if we where continually drunk and riding a motocross around -

Imagine - what fun it would be to be able to race across the ground at break neck speeds (in peroration to there size) then race straight up 10 ft up a tree then jump on a roof then fall 10 times your own height without a care in the world

stef

Can animals lucid dream?[/b]

Dunno, why don't you ask one?

Reminds me of a commercial on TV, where someone sees their cat sleeping and wonders what they're dreaming.
Then it cuts to a scene of a hunt - a poor deer being chased by a big version of the little puddy tat.
Looks hillarious

Although I agree with O'nus >

Originally posted by O'nus
No.

Though, if they can, there's no way to prove it since we can't comprehensively communicate with them.

YES, but if that cannot. haha J/K O'nus

But since an animal does not have the ability to reason it is hard to imagine them Lucid dreaming. However, with an unenhibeted brain (not like ours) Thay may be lucid in a literal sense but not have the comprehension to understand it anyway.
In a literal sense I mean that in everyone of thier dreams they could be fully aware but not realize it. Past generations of ourselves have proven that LDing can be something more easily obtained than we make it for ourselves today.
So lucid dreaming may be more natural for the brain ours/animals than we make it out to be.

Animals, with the exception of apes are not self aware. It is this extra feedback loop of self awareness that brings intelligence.

I doubt that any animal that lacks self awareness could lucid dream.

If I find out somehow my dog CAN lucid dream more than I can I better not catch him shitting on the floor agian!

Originally posted by seeker

Animals, with the exception of apes are not self aware. It is this extra feedback loop of self awareness that brings intelligence.

Good point seeker.

Apes can actually recognize themselves in a mirror. I can't even do that in the morning.

Originally posted by Howetzer
Apes can actually recognize themselves in a mirror. I can't even do that in the morning.

Too funny!

I doubt they can. I mean my cat dosen't sit and ponder the meaning of life or anything intelligent. You can just wave something in front of it and it's like "ooh, yay!" and tries to eat it. But I guess they could, I can't exactly ask it.

I think not, would take a very conscious self awareness to have a lucid dream!
Dont think animals are that self conscious, i mean if they could they also would be able to have a dream diary from there memory lol.
I believe its way more logic that some animals, like for instance monkeys, would be able to have nightmares, but lds, no!

What do you mean animals don't have self awareness? It only needs to know its alive to have self awareness. The fact that they know enough to avoid getting hurt or killed is proof enough. I don't know where you get that ape thing from either. Apes are as "stupid" as any other animal out there.

Little kids lucid dream too, some times they don't even know what it is. Kids don't ponder the meaning of life either. If a 5 year old can lucid dream why can't an animal?

Maybe its just me but if a stupid animal, say a goldfish can learn to do things, why couldn't one of the smarter animals learn to lucid dream?

I guess it boils down to the question "do animals understand the difference between dreams and reality"? I know that my dog dreams, but when he wakes up, does he have the presence of mind to think "oh, that was only a dream"? Or does he think that he was actually herding cows a few minutes ago? Or does he even remember it?

Kind of a pointless question anyway, IMO, because there's no way to know the answer for sure. Unless maybe you're one of those pet psychics.

Originally posted by Alric
What do you mean animals don't have self awareness? It only needs to know its alive to have self awareness. The fact that they know enough to avoid getting hurt or killed is proof enough. I don't know where you get that ape thing from either. Apes are as \"stupid\" as any other animal out there.

Little kids lucid dream too, some times they don't even know what it is. Kids don't ponder the meaning of life either. If a 5 year old can lucid dream why can't an animal?

Maybe its just me but if a stupid animal, say a goldfish can learn to do things, why couldn't one of the smarter animals learn to lucid dream?

I think that is why seeker pointed out about the upper echelon of creatures.

Originally posted by seeker
Animals, with the exception of apes are not self aware. It is this extra feedback loop of self awareness that brings intelligence.

Maybe add chimpanzees, dolphins and whales to the mix. I don't think a reasoning process exists outside mostly of insticnt.

There are tons of animals which I think can reason. The difference is between very simple things and complex ones. So it really comes down to how complex you think lucid dreaming is. I for one dont think its that bad.

Animals may be just like people in that some of them are lucid and some are not. A parrot may realize that when it sleeps it goes somewhere that it can do many strange things that it can't do when it is awake. It doesn't really have to realize that it's a parrot now does it, or know exactly what a dream is. People don't even completely understand that one. With how real dreaming can feel, to a simple animals mind it may seem more real than waking. Lucid dreaming isn't a product of intelligence, anyone can do it. Something doesn't need to reason to be aware that it is percieving, even instinctually a creature understands that there are consequences to actions. Now if a creature experiences a lack of consequences it most likely won't know what it is, but it is still a lucid dream. It doesn't have to know that it's a dream, only that it isn't normal or real, which IMO isn't entirely mentally strenous to do. I think the simple capacitly to dream would be the only prerequisite to lucid dreaming.