tibetan yogas of dream...

[sleepyzac]

hello i read "the tibetan yogas of dream and sleep" by tenzin wangyal rinpoche a few years ago but found it to be to rigourous to practice. however since then i have started meditating every day for a half hour, i quit drinking/smoking, etc. and now, having read the book again, i am practicing whole heartedly! i have had many lucid dreams before using MILD and some other techniques from stephen laberge but whenever i stop practicing i stop having them. i'm quite confident the tibetan method will work and am going to update here. the method is CONSTANTLY reminding yourself that you are dreaming, ALL DAY. really feeling it not just saying, or thinking it. in theory if you are always thinking this then it will manifest in your dreams as well which will help you attain lucidity. i have been doing it since the start of march. it is tough because i work at a bank and have to think about lots of math but i feel that with the presence of mind i've acheived through meditation i am suited for this technique now more than ever. wish me luck! if anyone has any questions let me know and i'll be glad to answer. there's a lot more i could say about the yogas and buddhism in general (i've spent some time with chan monks at the temple in missouri).

[beachgirl]

that's it? just reminding yourself all day that you're dreaming? are you getting DILDs then? to what extent do you think the meditation also helps, if you could guess?

[Darkmatters]

Hey Zac, I'll be following your progress. I read the book recently, along with ETWOLD. And I've been meditating twice a day for a couple weeks now, and working on chakras. The only thing I didn't like from the book was the idea that, once you attain the level of clear light you no longer have dreams. Say what??!! Sorry, but I like dreams! It's the reason Im here after all. Though now Im reading Lucid Dreaming: Gateway to the Inner Self by Robert Waggoner, and apparently he reached the level of clear light without knowing what it is, just from many years of being an accomplished LDer. And from what he said it isn't the entire time you're sleeping (which is what the book led me to believe), but only at times, and he still has lucids in between.

[lacerup808]

Yeah, so I've started doing this, but it's more than just saying "I'm dreaming" I've been recalling that feeling of "I'm dreaming" that you get when you become lucid. Kinda like when you recall the feeling of a pain pill and it relaxes you (a feeling I used to recall when swallowing any kind of pill, kind of a "pavlov's dog" thing)

[Xaqaria]

The real key is actually realizing that your waking life is no different than you dream life. Not just telling yourself you are dreaming or even trying to believe it, but realizing that being awake is in fact just another dream.

[sleepyzac]

beach girl, um there's also a bunch of other stuff for example you are supposed to let go of emotional issues. like if someone makes you angry you are supposed to relax (not force it away) and then generate compassion, which is the antidote for anger. there are antidotes for all the emotions. the meditation helps you to learn to be in a state of non-dual awareness. this is where you aren't loving or hating, you just are. if you can go into this state emotions self liberate. there are also practices to be done just before bed that involve complicated breathing and visualizations. if you really want those let me know and i'll explain. then there are visualizations to be done at three wakings in the night that take place in different chakras to cultivate awareness. also you need to write your dreams down obviously. then as you're falling asleep you try to remember the days events as if they were just a dream. and no i've had none yet! i did have a dream that i was becoming paralyzed and i thought about calling for help but then said "i'm just dreaming." and let myself fall and then i woke up. the funny part is I DIDN'T KNOW I WAS DREAMING! so while the practice may be slow going it is doing wonders for my mental state. i had one lucid the last week of february using MILD and just started using this one march first. the guy doesn't say how long it takes to work but in laberges book he says that all day state testing can take up to three months to work but that after this point the dreamer will have a lucid dream every night whether he/she plans to or not. that is what is driving me! super cool!

[sleepyzac]

lacer, awesome then you're doing it right! tenzin also says that if you become less worried or angry (ie less grasping and aversion) when you say i'm dreaming in a stressful situation then you know you're on the right track.

[sleepyzac]

dark matters, yeah i thought the same thing!!!!!! no dreams?????? wtf??? yeah for that reason i'm not going to go into the depths of this practice and just stick with some lucid applications and meditation during the day! also i'm skipping the end section on how to be aware in sleep. again WTF??? i like sleeping to ha ha! have you had any success? how long have you been doing it?

[sleepyzac]

xangria, yeah thanx i got that emotional states and the way you percieve the world are in no way real but only signals from your brain and in that sense very much a dream.

[Baron Samedi]

I've practiced some dream yoga, primarily pondering on the illusory nature of reality. It works.

[sleepyzac]

waking nomad, awesome, how did you transfer awareness to the dream state?

[sleepyzac]

OK EVERYBODY, i summed up for beach girl but here's the full update: its been six days and i've had this happen: i'm dreaming i'm standing in my kitchen and i hear a dial up internet tone. i look for the source and follow it to my laundry room where, instead of my phone jack, there is water spattered on the wall. the dial up tone starts to sound like loud white noise static (sh2 noise effect). i start to feel paralyzed and things get dim. i think about yelling for help but then say to myself "i'm just dreaming." and i then felt relaxed and let myself fall. i then woke up. obviously the dream was ending and the dimmness was the sign and the paralysis was my brain linking with my sleep paralyzed real REM body. the funny thing is i DID NOT KNOW I WAS DREAMING! so this means that it may take some time for my dream consciousness to fully integrate the idea that it really is a dream but also that i have created a safety net which makes stress and worry much much weaker! it works in waking life also, stress at work or worry about bills i blow off as "just a dream" and feel much better. although don't get me wrong i'm still doing my job and paying the bills . if i had realized i was dreaming i would have spun in a circle and looked around to prolong the dream. i'm semi frustrated because with the other techniques i've always had results that were pretty solid fairly quickly but i'm confident this will come to a pretty amazing fruition! also i always noticed that with the quick results i always would get lucid and then start doing whatever i wanted to do but felt kind of bogged down by the dream, like i was drunk and lucidity was being leached by this lack of awareness. the 'all day i'm dreaming' thing i believe will fix this issue because i'm constantly focusing on the present moment and analyzing what's happening as a dream so as awareness lacks in dreams i will habitually bring it back for greater awareness and accomplish better dream applications. can't wait to go to bed tonight because i can sleep in, no work tommorow! oh p.s. i'm also a little concerned that this is going to produce dreams where i "know" i'm dreaming but still play along with the dream because, for example i'm at work waiting on a customer and i think "i'm dreaming." but continue to help them when if it was a dream i would want to do anything but count money for customers! so we'll see... it's an experiment for a reason...

[Baron Samedi]

waking nomad, awesome, how did you transfer awareness to the dream state? I was saying to myself, "This is a dream," constantly all day for weeks. That phrase is always running in the back of my mind now in all states. I still do it, like when I go on long walks. Or, I chant the Lotus Sutra.

[beachgirl]

this is a great thread, i have some injuries and have been reading arnold mindell, "working with the dreambody". he says injuries are frozen dreams. it's a small book, easy to read. i want to pay way more attention to my dreams ... like this... all day long. i want to actually start interpreting some of my dreams based on what i'm reading. he also wrote "dreaming while awake" and i am partially through that, too. i own some of tenzin's other works too and he is saying alot of the same stuff. it's taking a while for me to take this all as seriously as my body and psyche do. i want to read/possibly practice from his "healing with form, energy and light" - it's sitting on my shelf - i bought it at one of his workshops. he teaches a lot about healing, too ... and darkmatters, i loved robert waggoner's book too. very inspiring! thanks, all, for your input!

[sleepyzac]

...thanks, all, for your input! cool! let me know how your progress goes!

[sleepyzac]

I was saying to myself, "This is a dream," constantly all day for weeks. That phrase is always running in the back of my mind now in all states. I still do it, like when I go on long walks. Or, I chant the Lotus Sutra. thanx! i'm glad to hear i'm not wasting my time

[Darkmatters]

Zac, Im not really trying the Tibetan Yogas techniques... I've been doing Vipassana (mindfulness meditation) for a couple weeks (mostly to help with LDing, but also for the long-term ego-squelching benefits), and just recently started doing Chakra healing, which is AMAZING! After I've been doing this for a while and got better at the meditation thing I might start trying the techniques in the Yogas of Sleep and Dream book. But first I'll sit back and see what kind of results you get...

[Baron Samedi]

Zac, Im not really trying the Tibetan Yogas techniques... I've been doing Vipassana (mindfulness meditation) for a couple weeks (mostly to help with LDing, but also for the long-term ego-squelching benefits), and just recently started doing Chakra healing, which is AMAZING! After I've been doing this for a while and got better at the meditation thing I might start trying the techniques in the Yogas of Sleep and Dream book. But first I'll sit back and see what kind of results you get... I have had amazing results. I shared a dream with Tibetan monks. Search my DJ for the word: monk.

[sleepyzac]

ok update time still no lucid but i'm noticing my waking consciousness and my dream consciousness are starting to link up, for example i keep dreaming i'm in my apartment in my morning dreams when this never used to happen. and another example is i referenced my waking thoughts in a dream: i dreamed i was at a bar and when i woke up i felt i dreamed this because i'd been there before but wasn't sure, then in a dream later in the night i dreamed i drove by this place by accident and decided i'd stop in for directions because it was the place i had dreamed about that i had been before... confusing? sorry. a couple nights ago i had a dream that i was going to a dream seminar, so it's definately starting to sink in. also my dream recall is INCREDIBLE!!! i'm remembering around four dreams per night and i keep waking up BEFORE my alarm goes off (i set it for 4.5, 6, and 7.5 hours after bedtime)! i keep waking up frustrated that i'm not having lucid dreams but then using this method throughout the day keeps making me feel GREAT! it's almost like making this habit starts to bring that joyful feeling upon recognizing dreaming into waking life.

[sleepyzac]

Zac, Im not really trying the Tibetan Yogas techniques... I've been doing Vipassana (mindfulness meditation) for a couple weeks (mostly to help with LDing, but also for the long-term ego-squelching benefits), and just recently started doing Chakra healing, which is AMAZING! After I've been doing this for a while and got better at the meditation thing I might start trying the techniques in the Yogas of Sleep and Dream book. But first I'll sit back and see what kind of results you get... awesome! i do mindfulness of breathing meditation which i think is the same thing. it's really good for... well everything lol!

[sleepyzac]

I have had amazing results. I shared a dream with Tibetan monks. Search my DJ for the word: monk. wait you know tibetan monks? or you shared it in a dream?

[beachgirl]

sleepyzac, some of what you said reminds me of what arnold mindell calls this "flirting with reality" and is part of what he teaches in "lucid dreaming while awake"

[Robot_Butler]

Glad to see it is working for you. I used to rock the whole dream-yoga practice. Daytime practice, night time practice. The works. I don't do it anymore, because I found it was interfering with other things I like to do with my life.

[sleepyzac]

sleepyzac, some of what you said reminds me of what arnold mindell calls this "flirting with reality" and is part of what he teaches in "lucid dreaming while awake" what does this lucid dreaming while awake consist of?

[sleepyzac]

Glad to see it is working for you. I used to rock the whole dream-yoga practice. Daytime practice, night time practice. The works. I don't do it anymore, because I found it was interfering with other things I like to do with my life. yeah i'm pretty much always trying to tame my mind and doing this all day works so i'm cool with that. it's a good habit to keep bad habits at bay. why smoke a cigarette or eat bad food if you're just dreaming? you don't need it. and why get depressed? it's just a dream. etc. the author said you cultivate the ability to alter emotions in the dream state and carry it into waking as well, i look forward to this. any idea why no lucid yet? is it because it's only been nine days? how long did it take you? any tips?