Fighting drowsiness during meditation

[Aarix]

Hey everyone, I would appreciate some help on this problems thats been bugging me for months. I've been doing meditation (more specifically tulpaforcing) One things I've suffered since the beginning is it makes me drowsy. No matter what I do when I meditate, my mind drifts away from where it needs to be to be productive and random thoughts and they stick and its hard to shake off. No matter what time of day or if I took energy drinks is I FEEL SO TIRED when I do this. Ten minutes in, I'm fighting hypnagogic imagery pretty much. Its exaughting to visualize and converse between me and my tulpa. This problem has made progress suffer for 4 months. Any help will be immensely appreciated. I'll dwell more to save you the needed questions. Type 1 Diabetic Sleep 9 hours, sometimes 8 Don't eat any more Junk than the average guy.

[Kuhnada29]

I'm not sure I understand...your "fighting" hypnagogic imagery? I dont know exactly what Tulapforcing is, but anytime you experience hypnagogic imagry, daydreaming, getting drowsey, it means your going within....towards the subconscious and super-conscious mind. Same thing as going to sleep If you dont want to be drowsey, focus outwards..towards the objective/outside world. You can use a sound or a picture and concentrate on it..whatever keeps your attention outside

[Aarix]

Thats the thing, when I'm stuck in the dozing, its like I'm dreaming and useless to control until I snap out of it and refocusing provokes dozing off even when sitting up. I drift away before I even realize that I did that in the first place. I've been trying to control it but have no idea how to start

[Kuhnada29]

Practice concentration on an external object..or person. Anything that keeps your focus in the objective world. Your just going to have to practice it. Also doing some logical mind work will keep you awake and aware too. Math problems, etc.. Or even creative work is better. Pick up a musical instrument and practice on it..this will keep you in the objective world On another note, that's a real gift to be able to daydream that easily. Daydreaming is a one-way ticket into a lucid dream

[Aarix]

alright, Also ironic considering i've never been able to lucid dream regardless of using a few methods. I appreciate your input.

[Kuhnada29]

No problem. Yea I talked to a natural lucid dreamer like a month ago and he told me that's the natural way he gets into lucid dreams....daydreaming

[Original Poster]

Keep your eyes about half open (in a relaxed state) and keep a dim light on. It may not actually prevent the trance from coming on but it should help considerably.

[hermine_hesse]

Have you tried walking meditation? Or sit in meditation for 100 breaths then stop and walk around for a few minutes, while keeping your mind focused, then return to sitting.

[Aarix]

Have you tried walking meditation? Or sit in meditation for 100 breaths then stop and walk around for a few minutes, while keeping your mind focused, then return to sitting. I never thought about walking around. I thought that would break focus. There are rare moments I can visualize a canvas to 100 to keep focus but generally its difficult for me to not get suddenly tired.

[Original Poster]

When I was younger I had a lot of success with what I prefer to call mindful walking to walking meditation. Only because people get kind of narrow minded regarding what meditation is. You can include meditation in any activity, it's simply surrender to the present. In my sangha they occasionally do a walking meditation but they go really, really slowly and carefully. Some people like it, I'm not a huge fan myself. I prefer walking at a casual pace and connecting with pure awareness while I walk. It's kind of nice because you don't get anxiety build up since you typically walk with a destination in mind and know the meditation is over when you reach the destination, unlike sitting meditation where once in a while (especially if I haven't meditated for a minute) I'll get this sensation like "the fuck am I doing here!?"

[Erii]

^ definitely agree with that but i think you could use this to your advantage to maybe astral project, though that might not be what you want...

[Linkzelda]

Hey everyone, I would appreciate some help on this problems thats been bugging me for months. I've been doing meditation (more specifically tulpaforcing) One things I've suffered since the beginning is it makes me drowsy. No matter what I do when I meditate, my mind drifts away from where it needs to be to be productive and random thoughts and they stick and its hard to shake off. No matter what time of day or if I took energy drinks is I FEEL SO TIRED when I do this. Ten minutes in, I'm fighting hypnagogic imagery pretty much. Its exaughting to visualize and converse between me and my tulpa. This problem has made progress suffer for 4 months. Any help will be immensely appreciated. I'll dwell more to save you the needed questions. Type 1 Diabetic Sleep 9 hours, sometimes 8 Don't eat any more Junk than the average guy. Since you're specifically talking about tulpaforging, the recommendations OP stated would be useful if you were planning to narrate as well (since passive tulpaforging/forcing is honestly narrating). Another thing you could attempt (but you'd have to research on your own), is attempting self-hypnosis. Since you are trying to create a personality model by relying on your brain to be able to have predictive measures to construct that model based on whatever personality/characteristics/etc. you've made for your tulpa, self-hypnosis just might be the thing for you. I would recommend that you read "A Practical Guide to Self-Hypnosis" by Melvin Powers. It's straightfoward, but when you read some of the mechanics behind hypnosis, you'll find that the steps he stated you could take (like tests) ideally would help you become in a suggestive state, and having your subconcious at a suggestive state where your mental blocks are gone for the sake of the session, your visualization skills and your tulpa being vocal would ideally augment dramatically. With meditation, it's obviously subjective, and self-hypnosis is in fact mediation itself as well, but it's simply getting yourself conditioned to reach various levels of hypnotic awareness (Powers claims there's 3: light, medium, and deep; each respectively have a more defined term, but it's 3:19 AM, and I'm too lazy to look it up). I've done the whole meditation where you're into the present and all that, and that's fun for a person just going by the day trying to relax, but you know that since your tulpaforging, you'll need to be able to do a bit more than that. The meditation people suggest here helps in getting yourself into the state you want that you've been too sleepy to sustain, when it fact, it's a matter of simply conditioning yourself that you'll be aware at all times during your session of meditation. Although I still have to work on self-hypnosis myself, I've found that setting these command (pre-hypnotic suggestions) like: "During this *x-amount of time* session, I shall remain perfectly aware of my surroundings and thoughts." "If I need to get out of the trance/hypnotic state in case of an emergency or avoiding danger, I will be able to get with ease on the count of ten (*or just whatever number you pick*)" And when you've set that (so you won't get a headache or mental fatigue if you abruptly disconnected yourself from that trance...you probably know that I mean by that when something instant comes up and wakes you up), you can start doing these "tests" to get yourself into the state slowly but surely. Think of the endeavor of reaching the trance/hypnotic state you want to tulpaforge as going into a pool of water. (And this will be paraphrasing Melvin Powers btw). If you're naked and you want to take a bath in a pool of water, you most likely wouldn't want to set your whole body at once, you'd want to take each body part one step at a time to get adjusted to the water's temperature. So you would put your feet in first to get a gauge on how it feels like, and then you slowly get your thighs, and eventually, step by step, your whole body or most of it is inside the body of water. This same principle, is how you go about with self-hypnosis or any for of meditation, you're just going slowly, constantly acknowledging you'll be aware of what's around you mentally and physically. I don't think you should "fight" the drowsiness," you should aim for acknowleding and being aware of it. In fact, the drowisness itself is just proof of you getting into a light state of trance, which is ideal for you to do visualizations for your tulpa. I've done it a few times with major success (still have to work on keeping awareness though), and recently I've been able to gradually get my tulpa to be more vocal by narrating along the way. Also, maybe your sitting position could be affecting your success. I've been sitting on a chair, and I put it near the end of my bed (where my feet would go to), and then I would get on the bed and slide myself onto the chair. This way, I'm more likely to stay aware rather than me lying down on the bed or trying to sit up on the bed (because I know I tend to get more sleepy on the bed than on the chair). The chair helps a lot (at laest mine with is an ajustable height chair) in keeping my spine fairly straight, and I can just rest my neck and head gently as well. ---- Also, here's a summary of what I'm trying to master (though there's more tests like this you can do, I just want to get these down because they help getting into that drowsy state you would aim to be aware of instead of fighting...because that's how you start getting into levels of being suggestive, which I beleive is key). Of course, these test aren't absolute, you can make your own tests, but you'll see what I mean: 1. Eyelid test You basically set a command that when you reach a certain number, your eyelids will get heavier and so relaxed that it would take too much effort to open. (remember when I stated about putting your feet first in the water? Well, the eyelids is considered to be the first step in getting used to the hypnotic states you'll get into). So when you stated your pre-hypnotic suggestion (powers calls in posthypnotic for some reason), you can set a command or phrase like, "As I count to ten, my eyelids will get heavier and more relaxed that when I try to open them, it would require too much effort. I shall be deeper in the hypnotic state, more relaxed than before, and aware of what's happening." And when you do count to ten (or whatever number works for you, ten is a good range to go by), you'll want to add FEEDBACK responses to each count. Example: "One.....my eyelids are getting heavier.... (and you would visualize yourself getting into a hypnotic state and such to augment that assurance; it's all about visualizing, setting commands, and responding to feedback). You can talk aloud when doing this or do it in your head, but for your sake, you might want to talk it out (and don't worry, you don't have to be absolutely quiet when doing meditation honestly)....but if you have to speak in your head if other people are going to be around you, that's fine as well. "Two....as my eyelids are slowly going down, I feel more relaxed and getting deeper in the hypnotic state." You keep doin this until you get to ten, getting yourself into acknowledging how you're feeling (being in the present), and when you reach ten, you could state something like: "Ten....my eyelids are now relaxed to the point where it will take too much effort to open them. I am now deeper in the hypnotic state and more relaxed than before." Then I would go on to the next test (these tests are to see if you're getting to the trance, but just remember, do it naturally and don't worry about following the steps to death of course): 2. Swallowing Test I'd count to ten --> set a command that even before I count to ten, I will get an irresistible urge to swallow---> I swallow before ten because I conditioned myself to it ->> get to ten--> more relaxed --> next test 3. Hand Tingling Test 4. Feet Test 5. Hand-raising test (this one actually could be useful as well if you think in terms of getting your tulpa into possessing your right arm, but you'll only get what I mean if you check out Powers book). --- In short, check out Power's book, you can find it for free for pdf download easily with a simple google search. If the pdf you have is 68 pages, then you can do this to save some time searching: Chapter 5 is about arousing yourself into the self-hynoptic state Chapter 6 (starts on page 21) focuses on how to attain self-hypnosis...and he goes into detail on the first two tests Chapter 7 is about deepening the levels of the hypnotic state (which visual-imagery helps A LOT, and since you're aiming for that in part of your endeavors of tulpaforcing/tulpaforging, that can work doubly for your focus in being aware and having visualization skills later on for your tulpa) (That SAME state you're trying to fight against is actually the lighter trance state known as the Lethargic State) He also goes into the other 3 tests you can practice as well. And Chapter 9 is the other remaining tests you can use to get into deeper states...but in your case, you should practice with the light state (tests 1-5 aim for that). ---- It sounds like a lot of info, but trust me, I've been doing this for weeks now, and it's slowly working. Depending on how much time you have, just have a few things in mind. - Hypnosis is not about forcing to clear your mind, it's about slowly lifting those mental blocks off slowly (which is what those tests do) - You are aware and in full control of your endeavor in self-hypnosis - You can add on to those tests when you count to ten, you'll have improved visualization skills for tulpaforging as well - Don't focus on the instructions for the tests to death, just use them as a guideline and keep attempting them in your own way if you want to mix things up (remember, to get into something, you have to condition yourself. - If you have trouble wondering if you are in a Lethargic state or in the deeper states, don't worry about it too much, chances are, you're already in them by that time. - Be confident, USE FEEDBACK responses with each count going up to ten or whatever number you choose. Feedback is crucial because you're acknowledging what's happening to you at the given moment (being in the present) And the rest is up to you. It doesn't take too much time, but just remember to write NOTES down to save yourself some time for the chapters I stated in the book. I always go back to my notes I kept in a notepad/word editor and saved them for later reference. You'll see how it is if you commit yourself to it. Just remember, it's a mentality, and it's a matter of having conditioned responses that will help you (example: imagining an external object could be a way of a conditioned response where you know that's specifically for meditation, etc.). Hope this helps.